|
Am I the only one who never seems to remember to write down the CL for the items in the scenarios?
I can be completely and thoroughly prepped for everything else, yet still burn several minutes over the course of a game session looking up the items in question!
<shakes head> dumb stuff like that...<sigh>
|
|
If there's a caster I just assume they take 10 and have the items come with a tag.
That would often not even be close to enough.
Most of the routine items are in the CL 5-8 range, so if they make DC 23 you can call it good most of the time.
Edit: Scrolls and potions and wands are easy of course (and don't forget potions they can use perception on).
|
Hint: If you want to keep the game moving and you forgot to look up the CL of the magic items before the game (or if you are running the scenario cold for some reason), you can ad hoc the DC.
Potions and wands are easy: DC = 15 + CL (most will be at minimum CL).
Weapons and armor: DC = 15 + 3 x (enhancement bonus).
For everything else (including weapons and armor with special abilities) just guess. The CL for most items will be right around the level of the scenario (usually just slightly higher). More exotic items will have CLs several levels higher than the tier of the scenario.
Wondrous items generally have a CL of at least 3rd. If you have a good idea of what spell goes into the creation, the CL will be at least the minimum caster level for that spell. More often is at the maximum caster level for variable effects for that spell (so a wondrous item that uses cure light wounds as a prerequisite will often be CL 5th, while one that uses fireball will often be CL 10th). If you aren't sure, go with somewhere in the middle.
If you are wrong by a couple points in the DC, it isn't the end of the world. In fact it only matters in those cases where the players would have learned the properties of the magic item had it been calculated correctly, but your miscalculation caused them to not identify it. For most of the gear they loot from bad guys, that is no big deal at all (and if you are consistently off by 2 or less, will happen less than 10% of the time).
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Fox hit the easy ones to remember, but here's the easy cheat sheet building off of that:
Potions and wands are easy: DC = 15 + CL (most will be at minimum CL).
Weapons and armor: DC = 15 + 3 x (enhancement bonus).
Cloak of resistance, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor = DC 20
Stat Belt or Headband = DC 23
This will get you through ~75% of item id'ing in PFS. For the rest, assuming it's CL 5 (DC 20) if it's cheap and CL 8 (DC 23) if it's a bit more expensive is a good shortcut.
|
James, unfortunately you missed the one that is fairly common, should be fairly low, but is actually fairly ridiculous.
Pearl of Power : Any: DC 32 (CL17)
Gave me a headache, as the GM, the first time I ran into that one.
There is an faq for min. caster lvl to create a pearl of power. That will help adj. the spellcraft neededso it is not cl 17 for any of them.
Goes by min. caster lvl required just like potions and wands.
Venture-Captain, Alabama—Birmingham
|
My favorite items for frustrating identifies are Feather Tokens. Strong conjuration aura, cl12 (DC 27).... and mostly useless.
Experienced agents either make the tough roll or just throw them into a bag and consider it the Pathfinder quartermaster's problem. Newbies freak out and think they have found the BBEG kryptonite.
|
|
This is the most useful FAQ answer I have seen in a good while. Thank you.James, unfortunately you missed the one that is fairly common, should be fairly low, but is actually fairly ridiculous.
Pearl of Power : Any: DC 32 (CL17)
Gave me a headache, as the GM, the first time I ran into that one.
+1 to this. People can ID Pearls of Power now!
|
|
+1 to this. People can ID Pearls of Power now!This is the most useful FAQ answer I have seen in a good while. Thank you.James, unfortunately you missed the one that is fairly common, should be fairly low, but is actually fairly ridiculous.
Pearl of Power : Any: DC 32 (CL17)
Gave me a headache, as the GM, the first time I ran into that one.
Depends on how you read it, unfortunately. I know that FAQ, and it still reads as a way to allow home game GMs to allow low-level casters to create them without needing to pump the Spellcraft DC.
Unless the PoPs found in a PFS scenario or PF module show a CL line, how do you know that they aren't CL17?
|
|
Run it how you want, kinevon. But if you are going to go with the harshest possible interpretation, it isn't fair to complain that the DC to identify the item is ridiculously harsh.
I prefer the players at my tables have a chance to use the items they find in the scenario. To do that, they first need to identify them. So I go with the most relaxed interpretation.
|
|
Run it how you want, kinevon. But if you are going to go with the harshest possible interpretation, it isn't fair to complain that the DC to identify the item is ridiculously harsh.
I prefer the players at my tables have a chance to use the items they find in the scenario. To do that, they first need to identify them. So I go with the most relaxed interpretation.
Run as written is harsh?
And the only time it really came up was before that FAQ came out. And it is an FAQ, not an errata actually changing the caster level of the item in the CRB, just a clarification saying that you only need to be able to cast spells of level X to create a PoP for level X spells. To be honest, I am not even sure that, in a home game, the FAQ would remove the +5 DC needed to create a PoP if your PC was below 17th level.
|
|
James, unfortunately you missed the one that is fairly common, should be fairly low, but is actually fairly ridiculous.
Pearl of Power : Any: DC 32 (CL17)
Gave me a headache, as the GM, the first time I ran into that one.
This made me think you thought the DC to identify the pearl is harsh.
When others point out that you can use CL 1st when computing the DC, based on a very well-written FAQ, you asked how do we know the pearl was created at the minimum CL instead of the maximum CL.
I'm saying that I don't know that. But absent that info, I'm going to assume that it is at the CL that is most beneficial to the players.
Yes, I believe ruling otherwise is harsh.
If you want to rule in the harshest possible way, feel free. It really is no skin off my nose.
If you are going to rule in that harshest possible way, then I don't have any sympathy when you say the DC "should be fairly low, but is actually fairly ridiculous," or "gave me a headache, as the GM."
|
|
You know what would be great? A Magic Item deck with all the relevant statistics on it. Create the deck and then make sure to put all the unique items in the section with the monsters. That would help
That doesn't actually sound all that hard to do. I wonder if I could write a bot to scrape the necessary info out of the prd into a database, then create a report out of the data.
Hmm...
Or, for that matter, I might already have it all in PCGen data files.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
|
James, unfortunately you missed the one that is fairly common, should be fairly low, but is actually fairly ridiculous.
Pearl of Power : Any: DC 32 (CL17)
Gave me a headache, as the GM, the first time I ran into that one.
This made me think you thought the DC to identify the pearl is harsh.
When others point out that you can use CL 1st when computing the DC, based on a very well-written FAQ, you asked how do we know the pearl was created at the minimum CL instead of the maximum CL.
I'm saying that I don't know that. But absent that info, I'm going to assume that it is at the CL that is most beneficial to the players.
The point is that you can't do that. The FAQ just points out that an item's caster level isn't a prerequisite, which doesn't need a ruling, as RAW it is not. The creator of a magic item can set that item's caster level at whatever he wants (up to his own caster level) but we have no way of knowing if the creator did that or not. So for found magic items unless otherwise specified in an adventure the caster level for an item listed in its source is the caster level of the item.
I'm saying that I don't know that. But absent that info, I'm going to assume that it is at the CL that is most beneficial to the players.
So are you going to assume that the caster level of stat boost items are 3 instead of 8, 12, and 16 respectively? After all Craft Wondrous Item and the various stat boost spells only require 3rd caster level to meet.
|
|
Do remember that there are ways to bypass the Spellcraft DCs for some items.
Potions can be IDed with Perception checks, and with Craft (Alchemy) by Alchemists
Scrolls and such can be entirely hand waved by using Read Magic. And even non-casters can gain access to a limited amount of Read Magic using a (flawless) dull grey Ioun stone and a wayfinder.
And, of course, for wands and such, there is always the DC 25 UMD check to try and use it blindly. Equally, of course, that leads to conversations with, "Where you pointing that thing, Willis?" in them.
Knowledge (arcana) can be used to at least identify what school of magic is involved (ID the aura)
|
|
If you successfully identify a wand, do you automatically know how many charges are in it?That's how I've always run it, but I'm not sure if there are any specific rules one way or the other.
I always treat the charges in a wand as part of the properties of the item, so the Spellcraft check should also tell you how many charges are left.
Attempting to ascertain the properties of a magic item takes 3 rounds per item to be identified and you must be able to thoroughly examine the object.
|
|
If you successfully identify a wand, do you automatically know how many charges are in it?That's how I've always run it, but I'm not sure if there are any specific rules one way or the other.
I would agree to that as well since some wands come with a higher CL and reduced charges. Though you could play it up and give them a description of how much is left.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
For what it's worth, there is a reasonably comprehensive database of magic items with auras and CL's here:
http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/home/databases/magic-items
|
|
For what it's worth, there is a reasonably comprehensive database of magic items with auras and CL's here:
http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/home/databases/magic-items
I am going to bookmark this, find a way to create a report from it, and create cards for every item my folks are likely to pick up. Then I will just hand them the card when they've correctly identified the item! Awesome! Thank you!
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
I would agree to that as well since some wands come with a higher CL and reduced charges. Though you could play it up and give them a description of how much is left.If you successfully identify a wand, do you automatically know how many charges are in it?That's how I've always run it, but I'm not sure if there are any specific rules one way or the other.
Sadly, this is probably the proper way to do it, even if it is funnier the other way. (I have found memories of a season 6 scenario with an item of technology with limited charges. One of the PCs unknowingly spent the last charge in the item showing another PC how cool it was. The look on his face when he went to use it in combat subsequently was priceless.)
For rules support, in the confirmation:
Which implies that you can tell when a wand has only a few charges left.