I would like to see in future Pathfinder Society scenarios caster levels listed per magic item in stat blocks and the like.
There have been too many times looking up caster levels in multiple books/resources when a party member uses detect magic to identify. It has been a bit of a time sink in smoothness of play.
Direct quote from the PFS Facebook page, "Yeah, who knew that a 1st level pearl of power is caster level 17, requiring a DC 32 spellcraft check?"
Is this type of addition/change a possibility in future scenarios?
The CL for the highest level Pearl of Power may be 17th, but a 1st level Pearl is only CL 1.
This has become a step in my prep work as a GM. Once you understand Magic Item creation it becomes second nature, and looking up the odd item here or there shouldn't take much time (or zero if you prep for it).
Especially for items that are available in various stages of power (like the mentioned Pearl of Power), it is indeed important to look at the crafting requirements, because you will definitely have to calculate the minumum CL (because in PFS, all magic items are only available at minimum CL unless noted otherwise).
The CL for the highest level Pearl of Power may be 17th, but a 1st level Pearl is only CL 1.
This has become a step in my prep work as a GM. Once you understand Magic Item creation it becomes second nature, and looking up the odd item here or there shouldn't take much time (or zero if you prep for it).
were is this listed? (that a 1st level Pearl has CL 1?)
what's the CL for the Pearl that can recall two spells?
2nd level Pearl = CL 3
3rd level Pearl = CL 5
...
9th level Pearl = CL 17
Like I said, when you understand Magic Item creation, it all falls into place.
are you talking about the FAQ? that's just the level for creation isn't it?
FAQ on Pearl of Power:
Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.
However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
bolding is mine.
so, for magic item creation, it appears that the required Caster Level of Pearls is not the listed Caster Level from the item Write-up, but is rather calculated differently. But this only applies to creation of the item, which is not legal in PFS, correct? or am I missing something else?
I still would like to know the CL for a Pearl of Power that can recall two spells... how are you calculating it in PFS?
The items CL is fixed at 5th, which is NOT the level you need to be to create it. (In Requirements it states that the "creator's caster level must be at least three times the cloak's bonus" which would be CL15.)
If you are trying to identify the properties of the magic item using detect magic the Spellcraft DC would be 15 + the item's Caster Level (not the CL of the creator).
so, to identify a Cloak of Resistance, the DC is 20.... it doesn't change depending on the bonus. (otherwise it would be DC 21 for a +2 Cloak and DC 30 for a +5 Cloak).
Most PFS judges just ignore this due to time constraints... it burns a lot of game time to ID magic items with rolls - and this is one of those things that you can't take 10 on (YMMV).
(reasoning behind the "no take 10" rule is that the PC has to concentrate to maintain the spell, and so cannot Take 10 on a skill check AND do another thing - that being concentrate on the spell)
Sooo.... mostly judges just tell the players what the Item does, that way they don't have to remember that your PC is using the Cloak from the Fighter from the Second encounter.... "wait while I reference page 6 again.... who has that helm on again?".
And it would burn word count in the scenarios too, word count that can be better spent on plot twists and descriptions of encounter....
This seemingly normal pearl of average size and luster is a potent aid to all spellcasters who prepare spells (clerics, druids, rangers, paladins, and wizards). Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast that day. The spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast. The spell must be of a particular level, depending on the pearl. Different pearls exist for recalling one spell per day of each level from 1st through 9th and for the recall of two spells per day (each of a different level, 6th or lower).
Doesn't do two at once, but does allow you to recall two per day. Costs 70,000 so it's not really worth it. (A level 6 pearl and a level 5 pearl would only cost a total of 61,000.)
Most PFS judges just ignore this due to time constraints... it burns a lot of game time to ID magic items with rolls - and this is one of those things that you can't take 10 on (YMMV).
(reasoning behind the "no take 10" rule is that the PC has to concentrate to maintain the spell, and so cannot Take 10 on a skill check AND do another thing - that being concentrate on the spell)
There is also precedent in that there are more than one prestige class that get "taking 10" on a spellcraft check to ID items as a class feature.
Most PFS judges just ignore this due to time constraints... it burns a lot of game time to ID magic items with rolls - and this is one of those things that you can't take 10 on (YMMV).
(reasoning behind the "no take 10" rule is that the PC has to concentrate to maintain the spell, and so cannot Take 10 on a skill check AND do another thing - that being concentrate on the spell)
There is also precedent in that there are more than one prestige class that get "taking 10" on a spellcraft check to ID items as a class feature.
ah... I do not understand. Please expand on your reply....
(IMHO) If you are trying to identify the properties of a Pearl of Power using the spell detect magic the Spellcraft DC would be 15 + 17 (the listed Caster Level of the magic item), or 32. It would be the same DC for all Pearls of Power, no matter what type they are.
Most PFS judges just ignore this due to time constraints... it burns a lot of game time to ID magic items with rolls - and this is one of those things that you can't take 10 on (YMMV).
(reasoning behind the "no take 10" rule is that the PC has to concentrate to maintain the spell, and so cannot Take 10 on a skill check AND do another thing - that being concentrate on the spell)
There is also precedent in that there are more than one prestige class that get "taking 10" on a spellcraft check to ID items as a class feature.
ah... I do not understand. Please expand on your reply....
(IMHO) If you are trying to identify the properties of a Pearl of Power using the spell detect magic the Spellcraft DC would be 15 + 17 (the listed Caster Level of the magic item), or 32. It would be the same DC for all Pearls of Power, no matter what type they are.
(YMMV)
That's pretty insane, and has no basis in the rules. The only Pearl of Power that would need a DC 32 Spellcraft check to identify would be one used for recalling a 9th level spell.
If you look at other variable items, like the Necklace of Fireballs, you'll notice a single Caster Level mentioned for them as well. When you have such items, the CL listed is what is needed to create the highest level version.
It's to save on word count, and because the Designers figured it fell into the realm of common sense that a 1st level Pearl of Power doesn't need a 17th level caster to create.
Come on, people. *knocks the side of his head with his fist*
(IMHO) If you are trying to identify the properties of a Pearl of Power using the spell detect magic the Spellcraft DC would be 15 + 17 (the listed Caster Level of the magic item), or 32. It would be the same DC for all Pearls of Power, no matter what type they are.
(YMMV)
That's pretty insane, and has no basis in the rules. The only Pearl of Power that would need a DC 32 Spellcraft check to identify would be one used for recalling a 9th level spell.
If you look at other variable items, like the Necklace of Fireballs, you'll notice a single Caster Level mentioned for them as well. When you have such items, the CL listed is what is needed to create the highest level version.
It's to save on word count, and because the Designers figured it fell into the realm of common sense that a 1st level Pearl of Power doesn't need a 17th level caster to create.
Come on, people. *knocks the side of his head with his fist*
Sorry, Nefreet, but, RAW, determining the abilities of any PoP would be DC 32, since that is the only CL listed.
And that does get ugly.
Besides, wouldn't a PoP 1 require a minimum CL of whatever the Craft Wondrous Items feat is, if it isn't the static, listed, CL17?
ah... I do not understand. Please expand on your reply....
Thanks!
For example, the Pathfinder Savant Prestige Class gets the Master Scholar (EX) class feature that allows them to always take 10 on Spellcraft checks. I think there is another prestige class that gets the same.
Sorry, Nefreet, but, RAW, determining the abilities of any PoP would be DC 32, since that is the only CL listed.
And that does get ugly.
Besides, wouldn't a PoP 1 require a minimum CL of whatever the Craft Wondrous Items feat is, if it isn't the static, listed, CL17?
Nosig posted above that there was a FAQ on creation of POPs:
FAQ:
Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.
However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
I think it is more than reasonable to assume that for ID purposes, just like for creation:
1st level Pearl = CL 1
2nd level Pearl = CL 3
3rd level Pearl = CL 5
...
9th level Pearl = CL 17
I would like to see in future Pathfinder Society scenarios caster levels listed per magic item in stat blocks and the like.
There have been too many times looking up caster levels in multiple books/resources when a party member uses detect magic to identify. It has been a bit of a time sink in smoothness of play.
Direct quote from the PFS Facebook page, "Yeah, who knew that a 1st level pearl of power is caster level 17, requiring a DC 32 spellcraft check?"
Is this type of addition/change a possibility in future scenarios?
Not to sound like a jerk, but is this not something you could look up before you run the scenario? Im probably more lax on this rule than I should be, but if you are going to look up the DC for every item someone tries to identify (and Im not saying you shouldnt), then wouldnt it be reasonable to just make that part of the scenrio preop you do before you show up to GM it? You could just make a note in the margin of the page about what the DC or CL is for the individual items or something.
Edit: What I mean is, instead of asking them to change something because looking it up mid-session is inconvenient to you, you cuold just stop looking it up mid-session. :P
Sorry, Nefreet, but, RAW, determining the abilities of any PoP would be DC 32, since that is the only CL listed.
And that does get ugly.
Besides, wouldn't a PoP 1 require a minimum CL of whatever the Craft Wondrous Items feat is, if it isn't the static, listed, CL17?
Nosig posted above that there was a FAQ on creation of POPs:
** spoiler omitted **
I think it is more than reasonable to assume that for ID purposes, just like for creation:
1st level Pearl = CL 1
2nd level Pearl = CL 3
3rd level Pearl = CL 5
...
9th level Pearl = CL 17
using those rules (the sentence right after the sentence you bolded) ..."He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic)." this would mean that a 3rd level crafter could set the CL of the item at 3, or 6, or ... 17 for that matter. SO, why would he NOT set it at 17? to make it easier to identify? or to make it easier to dispel?
SO... if you have a list of magic items recovered from a BBE and you are identifying them you should use the CL listed in the rule book, just so that we can reduce YMMV as much as possible. so...
CL for a Cloak of Resistance is 5th - no mater what the bonus. (even though it could have been crafted by a 3rd level Cleric).
CL for a Wand of CLW is the Caster Level of the Wand (1st in most cases). (even though it had to be crafted by someone of at least 5th level).
CL for a Pearl of Power is 17th - even if the Pearl is one that can recall 2 spells of up to 6th level per day (even though it could have been crafted by that same 3rd level Cleric).
edit:
If you are trying to identify the properties of the magic item using detect magic the Spellcraft DC would be 15 + the item's Caster Level (not the CL of the creator).
If it were the CL of the creator, then you would get different DCs for different magic items of the same type. This Cloak of Resistance would be DC 18, but this other one would be DC 25, because one was created by the 10th level wizard and the other by his apprentice. And yet both would count as 5th level for dispelling them... and for saving throws etc.
Nosig, because ALL ITEMS in PFS are assumed to be created at their lowest possible caster level, unless otherwise specified in the scenario. So that 1st-level pearl of power is at caster level 1 every single time.
Nosig, because ALL ITEMS in PFS are assumed to be created at their lowest possible caster level, unless otherwise specified in the scenario. So that 1st-level pearl of power is at caster level 1 every single time.
where does it say that?
In the CRB, under Pearl of Power it says that it has a CL of 17.
In the FAQ quoted by both Carlos Robledo and I above, the first line states "Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item." (edit: this deals with crafting the item, something we in PFS can not do. AND even if we could, the item would be crafted with the listed CL - so the Cloak of Resistance would have a CL5 and the Pearl of Power would have a CL17).
so, what lists the CL for a Pearl of Power differently?
Does this exception to the rules apply for Dispelling the item or for item Saving Throws as well?
Does this exception also apply to other types of magic items - for example a Cloak of Resistance, which would then have DCs of 18, 21, 24, 27 or 30 depending on the plus of the cloak?
edit: do you mean the requirement that all scrolls, potions, and wands in PFS are assumed to be created at their lowest possible caster level (unless otherwise noted)? (edited: corrected grammer...)
Nosig, because ALL ITEMS in PFS are assumed to be created at their lowest possible caster level, unless otherwise specified in the scenario. So that 1st-level pearl of power is at caster level 1 every single time.
Nope, just Potions, Scrolls, and Wands (GtPFS p24)
Found items are assumed to be the item in the books, in the case of Pearl of Power that is 1st Level PoP = CL 17. Can you make a CL 1 PoP for 1st level spells? Yes. Are found ones without a listed CL anything other than CL 17? No.
*sighs, then pulls out list of topics subject to table variation, and adds one more to the bottom*
Nefreet, would this mean that at your table, the Spellcraft DC to identify the properties of the magic item using the spell detect magic would be 15 + the item Creators Caster Level? (presuming the lowest possible Caster Level in most cases)
So, the DC to identify the properties of most Wonderous Items would be DC18? (as most items COULD be created by 3rd level casters?)
At my table, the DC would be 15 + the minimum CL required to create the item. So a 1st-level pearl of power would be DC 16 to identify, 2nd-level would be DC 18, 3rd-level would be DC 20, etc. If it's an item that does not have different "strengths", like a named magical weapon or armor, then I would use 15 + the CL in the book.
Let's be realistic here. 1st-level pearls of power appear on tier 1-2 chronicle sheets quite often. However, I can only think of one possible way for a level 1 wizard to make a DC 32 spellcraft check. by doing something ridiculous like 20 Int, Skill Focus (spellcraft), and maybe some other things. And on top of that they would still need to roll a 19 or 20 AND they only get 1 chance. I just don't think that's intended at all.
the vast majority of Judges (myself included) just ignore this and (gasp!) don't play with this rule.
We don't bother with it, as it will greatly increase bookkeeping and workload for the judge.
Some just say "with a Take 10 on Spellcraft, what's the Caster Level that you would get?"
Some just handwave it and say "I think there's rules for determining what it does in Perception or something..."
Many just say "It's a Cloak of Resistance +2, a potion of fly, and a 1st level Pearl of Power" ...
We don't use this rule, so we don't know this rule...
That way we get on with the adventure at hand and don't get wrapped up in the trivia of "guess what this does" that can swallow valuable game time that could be better spent "chatting up the Barmaid" and "Ax-ing the monster stuff"...
the vast majority of Judges (myself included) just ignore this and (gasp!) don't play with this rule.
We don't bother with it, as it will greatly increase bookkeeping and workload for the judge.
Some just say "with a Take 10 on Spellcraft, what's the Caster Level that you would get?"
Some just handwave it and say "I think there's rules for determining what it does in Perception or something..."
Many just say "It's a Cloak of Resistance +2, a potion of fly, and a 1st level Pearl of Power" ...
We don't use this rule, so we don't know this rule...
That way we get on with the adventure at hand and don't get wrapped up in the trivia of "guess what this does" that can swallow valuable game time that could be better spent "chatting up the Barmaid" and "Ax-ing the monster stuff"...
I agree with this. However, I had this come up and be very important in a module I ran where there was a cursed item that could have seriously hindered the party had they not identified it. In that case, I had to look up the specific item and get the CL for it to set a spellcraft DC that was something like 33. Thankfully, the party wizard rolled high enough to identify the Bag of Devouring before they put anything important in it.
At my table, the DC would be 15 + the minimum CL required to create the item. So a first level pearl of power would be DC 16 to identify, 2nd-level would be DC 18, 3rd-level would be DC 20, etc. If it's an item that does not have different "strengths", like a named magical weapon or armor, then I would use 15 + the CL in the book.
Let's be realistic here. 1st-level pearls of power appear on tier 1-2 chronicle sheets quite often. However, I can't think of any possible way for a level 1 wizard to make a DC 32 spellcraft check unless they did something ridiculous like 20 Int, skill focus (spellcraft), and maybe some other things. And on top of that they would still need to roll a 20 AND they only get 1 chance. I just don't think that's intended at all.
You realize that the Pearl had to be created by a 3rd level crafter right? (Craft Wonderous Items can't be taken until the crafter is 3rd)
Does this change to the rules apply to other magic items? Such as Cloaks of Resistance (+1)? (normally DC 20 to ID, but could be crafted by a 3rd level caster... so maybe DC18?) How about Cloaks of Resistance (+2)? (normally DC 20 to ID, but could be crafted by a 6th level caster... so maybe DC21?)
At my table, the DC would be 15 + the minimum CL required to create the item. So a first level pearl of power would be DC 16 to identify, 2nd-level would be DC 18, 3rd-level would be DC 20, etc. If it's an item that does not have different "strengths", like a named magical weapon or armor, then I would use 15 + the CL in the book.
Let's be realistic here. 1st-level pearls of power appear on tier 1-2 chronicle sheets quite often. However, I can't think of any possible way for a level 1 wizard to make a DC 32 spellcraft check unless they did something ridiculous like 20 Int, skill focus (spellcraft), and maybe some other things. And on top of that they would still need to roll a 20 AND they only get 1 chance. I just don't think that's intended at all.
You realize that the Pearl had to be created by a 3rd level crafter right? (Craft Wonderous Items can't be taken until the crafter is 3rd)
Does this change to the rules apply to other magic items? Such as Cloaks of Resistance (+1)? (normally DC 20 to ID, but could be crafted by a 3rd level caster... so maybe DC18?) How about Cloaks of Resistance (+2)? (normally DC 20 to ID, but could be crafted by a 6th level caster... so maybe DC21?)
Ywp, but the creator can set the CL of the item anywhere from 1 to his current caster level. So I will always assume that if wands and such are made at the lowest possible caster level, then all magical items are. Otherwise there should be a lot of CLW wands out there that heal for 1d8 + 10.
the vast majority of Judges (myself included) just ignore this and (gasp!) don't play with this rule.
We don't bother with it, as it will greatly increase bookkeeping and workload for the judge.
Some just say "with a Take 10 on Spellcraft, what's the Caster Level that you would get?"
Some just handwave it and say "I think there's rules for determining what it does in Perception or something..."
Many just say "It's a Cloak of Resistance +2, a potion of fly, and a 1st level Pearl of Power" ...
We don't use this rule, so we don't know this rule...
That way we get on with the adventure at hand and don't get wrapped up in the trivia of "guess what this does" that can swallow valuable game time that could be better spent "chatting up the Barmaid" and "Ax-ing the monster stuff"...
I agree with this. However, I had this come up and be very important in a module I ran where there was a cursed item that could have seriously hindered the party had they not identified it. In that case, I had to look up the specific item and get the CL for it to set a spellcraft DC that was something like 33. Thankfully, the party wizard rolled high enough to identify the Bag of Devouring before they put anything important in it.
so... for some things you use the CL listed, but for some you do not? I am not understanding this. You apply this rule ... sometimes? (this is not a snarky comment. I am really trying to understand the reasoning here).
At my table, the DC would be 15 + the minimum CL required to create the item. So a first level pearl of power would be DC 16 to identify, 2nd-level would be DC 18, 3rd-level would be DC 20, etc. If it's an item that does not have different "strengths", like a named magical weapon or armor, then I would use 15 + the CL in the book.
Let's be realistic here. 1st-level pearls of power appear on tier 1-2 chronicle sheets quite often. However, I can't think of any possible way for a level 1 wizard to make a DC 32 spellcraft check unless they did something ridiculous like 20 Int, skill focus (spellcraft), and maybe some other things. And on top of that they would still need to roll a 20 AND they only get 1 chance. I just don't think that's intended at all.
You realize that the Pearl had to be created by a 3rd level crafter right? (Craft Wonderous Items can't be taken until the crafter is 3rd)
Does this change to the rules apply to other magic items? Such as Cloaks of Resistance (+1)? (normally DC 20 to ID, but could be crafted by a 3rd level caster... so maybe DC18?) How about Cloaks of Resistance (+2)? (normally DC 20 to ID, but could be crafted by a 6th level caster... so maybe DC21?)
Ywp, but the creator can set the CL of the item anywhere from 1 to his current caster level. So I will always assume that if wands and such are made at the lowest possible caster level, then all magical items are. Otherwise there should be a lot of CLW wands out there that heal for 1d8 + 10.
actually, being a crafting type PC is several other games I can say that CLW wands will ALWAYS be crafted at 1st. A 2nd level wand would cost 2x as much to craft in money and TIME (much harder to come by in most home games - time management). Crafting a wand of Shocking Grasp now - that one would be at 5th. Or vanish... at least 2nd.
But the PFS management decided to have the CL for Wands, Potions and Scrolls set to the lowest possible ... (in most cases Neutralize Poison being an exception. you would always have it crafted by Druids...). This is because these items have different CL set when they are created, other magic items (normally) do not. So you can't get a Cloak of Resistance with a CL of anything except CL5.
edit: also your comment "...but the creator can set the CL of the item anywhere from 1 to his current caster level." is not true. as it implys in the FAQ on Creating Pearls of Power above, the creator can set it at anything he wants - even more than his current CL.
the vast majority of Judges (myself included) just ignore this and (gasp!) don't play with this rule.
We don't bother with it, as it will greatly increase bookkeeping and workload for the judge.
Some just say "with a Take 10 on Spellcraft, what's the Caster Level that you would get?"
Some just handwave it and say "I think there's rules for determining what it does in Perception or something..."
Many just say "It's a Cloak of Resistance +2, a potion of fly, and a 1st level Pearl of Power" ...
We don't use this rule, so we don't know this rule...
That way we get on with the adventure at hand and don't get wrapped up in the trivia of "guess what this does" that can swallow valuable game time that could be better spent "chatting up the Barmaid" and "Ax-ing the monster stuff"...
I agree with this. However, I had this come up and be very important in a module I ran where there was a cursed item that could have seriously hindered the party had they not identified it. In that case, I had to look up the specific item and get the CL for it to set a spellcraft DC that was something like 33. Thankfully, the party wizard rolled high enough to identify the Bag of Devouring before they put anything important in it.
so... for some things you use the CL listed, but for some you do not? I am not understanding this. You apply this rule ... sometimes? (this is not a snarky comment. I am really trying to understand the reasoning here).
No, some items only have 1 possible caster level, like named weapons or armors (see: Sun Blade or Celestial Armor). For those, I use the CL the book gives. For items with variable caster levels, I use the lowest CL possible to create the item. I probably would do the 1st-level pearl of power at 18 because of needing CL 3 for Craft Wondrous Item. In fact, I started to edit that post and put that, but decided not to for some reason.
I also see your point about the CLW wands and didn't consider the extra cost in making them at a higher CL. I also don't see how a crafter could set the CL higher than he current CL, but if that's what the FAQ says...My statement was more to say that the crafter can set it lower than his current CL.
You can't take Craft Wand at 1st level, yet you find CL 1 wands all the time.
You can have a Pearl of Power with a CL of 1.
This isn't rocket science.
The Caster Level of an item is not the Caster Level of the items creator...
The Items CL is set at the time of creation...
In PFS, that CL (the Items CL) for Wonderous items is set in the book that lists that item, in the listing of the item... (For Pearl of Power this would be the CRB, which lists the CL of Pearl of Power at 17th).
Is there any rule/FAQ/Developer post that changes that?
edit: a side note. The FAQ or creation of Pearls of Power says that a lower level creator can set the CL... "He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic)." So, why would he NOT set it at CL17? To make it easier to dispel or distroy?
You can't take Craft Wand at 1st level, yet you find CL 1 wands all the time.
You can have a Pearl of Power with a CL of 1.
This isn't rocket science.
Correct. That is defined in the CRB, and the the campaign documentation.
The same documentation that defines the CL of all magic items... which says that the CL for a Pearl of Power is 17. What rule/FAQ/Developer post changes this? Anything other than Judges opinion?
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
*sighs, then pulls out list of topics subject to table variation, and adds one more to the bottom*
Nefreet, would this mean that at your table, the Spellcraft DC to identify the properties of the magic item using the spell detect magic would be 15 + the item Creators Caster Level? (presuming the lowest possible Caster Level in most cases)
So, the DC to identify the properties of most Wonderous Items would be DC18? (as most items COULD be created by 3rd level casters?)
There is a REASON the Identify spell is in the book.
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Two tables of The Confirmation are going to be VERY surprised next weekend at CoastCon, then.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
nosig wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Two tables of The Confirmation are going to be VERY surprised next weekend at CoastCon, then.
You do understand that NOT all of that shopping list is intended to be found in that scenario? The DM is supposed to pick a COUPLE of those items to actually be there, and cross everything else in that particular stash from the Chronicle.
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Two tables of The Confirmation are going to be VERY surprised next weekend at CoastCon, then.
You do understand that NOT all of that shopping list is intended to be found in that scenario? The DM is supposed to pick a COUPLE of those items to actually be there, and cross everything else in that particular stash from the Chronicle.
I hadn't read through it completely yet, I just remembered there being a pearl of power that we found both times I played the scenario. Although, now that I know the DC to identify it is 32, I'm seriously considering making sure they find one just to see their faces when one of them rolls a 25 spellcraft and I tell him/her that he/she has no clue what the item is.
Anybody got UMD and want to attempt to activate blindly?!?!?
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Two tables of The Confirmation are going to be VERY surprised next weekend at CoastCon, then.
You do understand that NOT all of that shopping list is intended to be found in that scenario? The DM is supposed to pick a COUPLE of those items to actually be there, and cross everything else in that particular stash from the Chronicle.
I hadn't read through it completely yet, I just remembered there being a pearl of power that we found both times I played the scenario. Although, now that I know the DC to identify it is 32, I'm seriously considering making sure they find one just to see their faces when one of them rolls a 25 spellcraft and I tell him/her that he/she has no clue what the item is.
Anybody got UMD and want to attempt to activate blindly?!?!?
(please realize the following is intended to be humor... sometimes the board doesn't convey that well...)
wait, you're planning to do it by the rules?
Yeah! we have a convert! Welcome to Organized Play!
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Two tables of The Confirmation are going to be VERY surprised next weekend at CoastCon, then.
You do understand that NOT all of that shopping list is intended to be found in that scenario? The DM is supposed to pick a COUPLE of those items to actually be there, and cross everything else in that particular stash from the Chronicle.
I hadn't read through it completely yet, I just remembered there being a pearl of power that we found both times I played the scenario. Although, now that I know the DC to identify it is 32, I'm seriously considering making sure they find one just to see their faces when one of them rolls a 25 spellcraft and I tell him/her that he/she has no clue what the item is.
Anybody got UMD and want to attempt to activate blindly?!?!?
(please realize the following is intended to be humor... sometimes the board doesn't convey that well...)
wait, you're planning to do it by the rules?
Yeah! we have a convert! Welcome to Organized Play!
I always play by the rules, as long as I know what they are or one of my players points them out to me. The one time I can remember not playing by the rules is probably a good thing, or a certain interstellar plant creature might have killed a couple of my players. And in that case it was just the grab/constrict rules that we were unaware of.
Again, to those saying a 1st-level pearl of power has an identification DC of 32, do you really think this is intended, when pearls of power can be found in the 1-2 tier of many, many scenarios?
yes. Having played this silly game of ours for the last 30 years, while the rules were created and the Pearl of Power was invented... yes, I think so.
;)
unless/until the rules are changed I think that in PFS we should "play it as written", and not each individually change the rules the way we wish they were... that way leads out of Organized Play and into home games (where we can change the rules to "make a better game").
Two tables of The Confirmation are going to be VERY surprised next weekend at CoastCon, then.
You do understand that NOT all of that shopping list is intended to be found in that scenario? The DM is supposed to pick a COUPLE of those items to actually be there, and cross everything else in that particular stash from the Chronicle.
I hadn't read through it completely yet, I just remembered there being a pearl of power that we found both times I played the scenario. Although, now that I know the DC to identify it is 32, I'm seriously considering making sure they find one just to see their faces when one of them rolls a 25 spellcraft and I tell him/her that he/she has no clue what the item is.
Anybody got UMD and want to attempt to activate blindly?!?!?
(please realize the following is intended to be humor... sometimes the board doesn't convey that well...)
wait, you're planning to do it by the rules?
Yeah! we have a convert! Welcome to Organized Play!
I always play by the rules, as long as I know what they are or one of my players points them out to me. The one time I can remember not playing by the rules is probably a good thing, or a certain interstellar plant...
(shrug) - everyone makes mistakes... after all, we are posting here rather than playing right? ;)
A side note!
by the way, I just realized that my 1st level Alchemist would get the DC32... on a Take 10 check.
+5 (for 20 INT)
+1 (rank)
+3 (Class skill)
+2 (Racial - Elf)
+1 Guidance (from the Cleric)
+10 (Identify - the only way he can detect magic, he got a Wand of Identify before he got a wand of CLW).
go figure... I knew I took that wand for some reason!
So that brings up a good question. What if you have a level 1 wizard and he doesn't make the check, but he's firmly convinced that he just found a pearl of power. Can he use it, or would it require a UMD check to activate blindly? Along the same lines, the wizard doesn't have UMD, but the party bard does. The bard can make the check to activate it blindly, but when he does, nothing happens because he's not a prepared caster. Does he then learn that it's a pearl of power, and is he able to tell the wizard, who can now use it without UMD?
So that brings up a good question. What if you have a level 1 wizard and he doesn't make the check, but he's firmly convinced that he just found a pearl of power. Can he use it, or would it require a UMD check to activate blindly? Along the same lines, the wizard doesn't have UMD, but the party bard does. The bard can make the check to activate it blindly, but when he does, nothing happens because he's not a prepared caster. Does he then learn that it's a pearl of power, and is he able to tell the wizard, who can now use it without UMD?
those are all interesting questions... and I have only opinions to offer in reply.
the following is just how I would run it (this week - next week I may change - ha! thus the problem with opinions...)
Can he use it, or would it require a UMD check to activate blindly?
It would require an UMD check, as he does not know the command word/activation or whatever that is required...
Along the same lines, the wizard doesn't have UMD, but the party bard does. The bard can make the check to activate it blindly, but when he does, nothing happens because he's not a prepared caster. Does he then learn that it's a pearl of power,
No - he activates it, and there is no visible effect. I think he would get a bonus to active it blindly again though, I'd need to check the UMD skill...
and is he able to tell the wizard, who can now use it without UMD?
Tell the wizard what? that he can activate it, maybe? even if he tries to do it again he still has the failure chance, so he would still be using "activate it blindly" - so what is he telling the wizard?
Bard - "Hay Wiz, if you hold it in your hand and pretend you are a great wizard and wish real hard...",
Wizard - "I don't have UMD Bard."
Bard - "bummer dude. Sucks to be you huh? Maybe next level?"
Wizard - "Next AOE, I'm not checking to see where you are before I cast..."
I think I agree with the general idea behind using the CL that's published with the item. I would say, though, that with regards to The Confirmation in particular, you'll likely be dealing with new players.
The Confirmation:
The items that are provided are chosen by the GM, because the GM thinks they'll be helpful to the characters in the rest of the scenario. If you're not going to let them identify the Pearl of Power, then you shouldn't give it to them, because it won't really be useful. So, I'd either cut first time players some slack and allow it to be identified, or I'd pick another item that would actually help the group. Just my thoughts on this specific situation, given who's likely to be playing the scenario. If you've got a group of veterans just trying to level a new character, sure, have fun with them.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
