PFS Core Campaign melee bard?

[Jasper Androlson]

I am looking for thoughts on a melee bard build for the PFS Core campaign.

Essentially, it's 20 point buy, CRB, traits web enhancement, PFS Guide.

I won't play a half-orc, really leaning half-elf or human.

I know about archer bards, but I would rather focus my feats elsewhere. Besides the good archery feats come online very late for PFS when you're not a ranger.

Sor really, do I use a longspear or go sword and board with a buckler?

If sword and board, rapier or longsword?

If rapier do I stay with Strength or go Weapon Finesse knowing Dex to damage won't happen?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Secret Wizard]

All are good options.

[Corwin Illum]

I am building a core bard.

I would recommend strength based, You could hit things as dex, but I don't see it being very effective in the damage department. Any of the weapon choices work. Depends if you value reach vs AC, or crit vs higher die.

Something I am doing is actually building into a dragon disciple around level 7-8. Get extra strength and armor. preform as a move action. Keep in mind the armor Elven Chain. Can wear that with no penalty to attacks. Worth the extra 1k.

[calagnar]

This is the bard I playing in PFSP until he retired. The few times combat lasted past the buffing round. He was doing low damage until level 7 and picking up two weapon fighting. However this was before agile weapon enhancement. I was still doing 80+ points of damage at higher levels. He was very effective over all. Every one in my area really liked him when he was at the table.
Bard damage rule you should look at. You have a static damage bonus from two things Inspire Courage, and later Good Hope. Both affect the group. The other things to look at is bypassing DR. Holy weapon enchantment will bypass this for most things you fight. So when you start attacking 4 times around with +5 to hit and damage, + 2D6 Holy on top of your base. It dose add up fast.

Build Goal: Support, Melee Combat, Social Skills, Trap Skills.
Bards in general: Unless you act before your group. You are not nearly as effective. Due to most combat only lasting one to two rounds. Getting buffs up before combat starts is the biggest challenge bards face. I did this by making a Dex build and getting Improved Initiative at level 1. This allowed me to go first most of the time letting the party utilize the buffs I put up. I do recommend making table tents for common buffs you use.
Full Name Allard
Race: Human: Taldan
Classes/Levels Bard 12
Gender Male
Size Medium
Age 21
Alignment CG
Deity Cayden Cailean
Languages Common, Kelish, Varisian, Vudrani, Tien, Undercommon, Azlanti, Thassilonian, Shoanti. Osiriani, Anchient Osiriani, Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic.
Strength 14
Dexterity 24
Constitution 14
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 7
Charisma 16
Skill Ranks: 105: Acrobatics 10, Disable Device 11, Kn: Arcana 2, Kn: The Planes 6, Kn: History 2, Kn: Nobility 2, Kn: Local 2, Kn: Religion 2, Linguistics 12, Perception 12, Perform Act 12, Preform Oratory 12, Perform Percussion 4, Spellcraft 1, Stealth 3, Use Magic Device 12,
Traits: Vagabond Child Urban(Disable Device), Freedom Fighter
Feet's : Weapon Finesse, Lingering Performance, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Discordant Voice,
Special Ability's : Versatile Performance (Oratory, Act, Percussion), Bardic Knowledge, Lore Master, Bardic performance, Spell Casting
Spell's: Core only spells I hade taken.
0: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Mending, Open/Close, Read Magic,
1: Cure Light Wounds, Identify.
2: Invisibility, Aram Zey's Focus, Glitterdust.
3: Good Hope, Haste, Daylight, See Invisibility.
4: Freedom of Movement, Dimention Door, Invisibility Greater,

[Zedorland]

I Have a core bard, doing the melee support role.

I'm going for the following:

Str Build with a long spear, grabbing Combat reflexes at 1, Power attack at 3 and then supporting feats (Improved initiative, toughness etc) after that. With CR and PA, your damage will be fine and you can get a few extra attacks in, bringing your overall combat impact up.

Combat generally starts with activating music, then moving into a position to threaten at reach or set up an AoO. Second round is attack, or cast another buff spell and position for an AoO again.

Level 7 is a pretty big deal, that's when you can start music, cast a spell, and get access to haste. Combat will pretty much go sing>haste>five foot step, and attacking in the following rounds.

Grab a lesser rod of extend, and you can keep heroism up on yourself most of the day from level 5/6, which will keep your saves and attack rolls competitive.

#1 piece of advice is don't try and be the front line. You don't have the CMD, AC or HP for a true front line fighter, and big bads will make mince meat of you if you try and go toe to toe with them. A bards role is in support, keep the mooks off your paladins back, or threaten the enemy casters to make their life difficult, don't run straight up to the biggest ugliest thing in the room and try to stab it in the eye. they tend not to like that.

[Akerlof]

I'd go longspear: If you want to go melee, you really want to go two handed and high Str. (I'd suggest 16 or 17 to start.) And if you go Str focused with a class that only allows you to wear light armor, you're going to be squishy, so going reach is really helpful. (Hint: Trip on the AoO as they approach you. Also, reach allows you to ready an action to attack when they approach you, 5' step, then take the AoO allowing you to get two attacks to their one.) You'll still be squishy, but you might not go unconscious as often.

Alternatively, you could try Elf (or human), max out Dex, keep 13 Str, and finesse an Elven Curved Blade with Power Attack. That'll make you a little less squishy at lower levels before you can depend on Mirror Image and Displacement at higher levels for survival. The tradeoff is that you do less damage.

I don't think you'll be able to get enough bonuses to do effective damage at higher levels by finessing a one hander. Remember: In PFS you can't guarantee that you'll be filling the role you expected to, there might not be that 22 Str Barbarian, or even 18 Str Paladin in the group, you might be it for applying HP damage to eliminate the bad guys.

Damage-wise, I look at the Table: Monster Statistics By CR from the bestiary and shoot for a DPR that will kill an average monster of a CR 2 higher than my level in 4-6 rounds. 5 or 6 if I'm shooting for a secondary damage dealer or 4-5 as a primary damage dealer. Alternatively, you could look at some scenarios that you've already played and see if you can kill the tougher enemies in 4-6 rounds. An example of an encounter from a season 1, 1-7 scenario:

Subtier 1-2: CR 2, AC 13, 22 HP, DR 5/bludgeoning
Subtier 3-4: CR 4, AC 13, 40 HP, DR 5/bludgeoning
Subtier 6-7: CR 8, AC 13, 81 HP, DR 5/bludgeoning

Of course, PFS scenarios are known to be really swingy in difficulty, so take what you see in them with a grain of salt if you only look at a few. On the other hand, they're an actual representation of what you'll be facing instead of a theoretical model, so they can also be a good guide.

(I come up with a 4-6 rounds to kill range based on the theory that a CR = APL+2 encounter should end within 2 to 3 rounds of the sides getting into full attack range and that you'll have either two dedicated damage dealers or 1 dedicated + 2 or so secondary. That's because much more time than that and things get really dangerous for PCs: Even that 7th level paladin might have some worries once he's been bitten 3 or 4 times by a skeleton attacking at +22 for 2d8+26.)

I would also suggest keeping your Cha to 13 or 14, you just need too many physical stats to survive in melee. That means focusing on support and buffing spells instead of those with saves.

[Jasper Androlson]

Thanks everyone for the detailrd advice!

I've got a normal mode cav 4/bard 1/battle herald 2 who uses a longspear right now. He can be pretty effective and fun.

In core I'd just be going straight bard, but I don't really want to simply clone my other PC. Sure, personality is a differentiator but that doesn't always come out in a PFD game.

Amyway, the 2-handed weapon again shows its power! And good points about AC and CMD, HP. Though elven chain gets you effectively into medium armor and you could enchant the heck out of a buckler. Still squishy compated to that plate and shield dwarf fighter!

[neodemus]

Squishy?
Mirror Image outshines High AC like a Star