Path Finder Unchained - Dynamic Magic Item Creation - COMPLETE THE ITEM

[Shulak]

I'm unclear how the "COMPLETE THE ITEM" challenge is done.
P181 of Pathfinder Unchained.

You have the option to Improvised the task with Use Magic Device
or
Provide the requirements, no roll required.

It looks like attempting Use Magic Device has the possible result of destroying the item or reduce it's cost by 10%.
While actually having the prerequisites and not requiring to roll is a safe bet without reward.

OR
That not needing to roll = Critical success bonus automatically.

So which is it?

[Jorshamo]

As I understand it, the Provide the Requirements is a task like any other, but instead of requiring a skill roll, it has an alternative method of completing it, and no roll is required for that task. The critical success condition would only apply if you had all the requirements listed for the item AND made the UMD check.

Provide all of the requirements AND Succeed the UMD check
Critical success

Provide all of the requirements OR Succeed the UMD check
Success

Provide all of the requirements AND Fail the UMD check by 5 or more,
OR
Fail to provide all of the requirements AND Fail the UMD check by any amount
Failure

[Lannes]

So, is it necessary to have the item creation feat? If you use only the Improvise Task it seems it wouldn't be necessary...

And another doubt, if you use the task Provide the Requirements, must all those requirements be done by only one creator ( as is stated before in the rules) or can be presented by several different creators?

[Chromnos]

No. You just use the use magical device skill in the complete the task step which has potential benefits and adverse effects. You still need the related craft magical item feat and you still also need to complete the prepare the vessel step.

[Lannes]

Ok, so you need the feat in any case and besides that if you want to do the "Provide the requirements" task, one and only one creator must have all of them , except the item creation feat, right?

[Mark Seifter]

Jorshamo wrote:

As I understand it, the Provide the Requirements is a task like any other, but instead of requiring a skill roll, it has an alternative method of completing it, and no roll is required for that task. The critical success condition would only apply if you had all the requirements listed for the item AND made the UMD check.

Provide all of the requirements AND Succeed the UMD check
Critical success

Provide all of the requirements OR Succeed the UMD check
Success

Provide all of the requirements AND Fail the UMD check by 5 or more,
OR
Fail to provide all of the requirements AND Fail the UMD check by any amount
Failure

This is correct. It's also why failing at complete the item is the only way to destroy the item short of a critical failure; since assuming you have the prereqs, you chose to gamble for the 10% off and then failed it by 5 or more. It's also why there's no critical failure entry, as you can't really attempt and fail meeting the prereqs; you either do or don't.

[Chromnos]

Lannes wrote:

Ok, so you need the feat in any case and besides that if you want to do the "Provide the requirements" task, one and only one creator must have all of them , except the item creation feat, right?

Good question. I think the rules allow for collaboration on item creation with one character using the item creation feat and the others providing the skills to help out, so long as one character has the creation feat to initiate the process in the first place. The added risk is item loss. The added reward is reduced cost. So I guess specifically only one person would need the item creation feat and those with other skills could collaborate.

[Lannes]

Another question, someway related, could be used magic that improve skills for these kind of checks that are for tasks several hours long? For example magic like guidance, heroism, etc. Theoretically you could use the magic just before the roll is made at the end of the task, but the work has been done along many hours...

[Chromnos]

In cases where the duration lasts as long as the enchantment process, then yes. Shorter duration effects would probably require DMs to arbitrate that the spells could be cast at a key point in the item creation process and could result in a reduced buff as a result.

[Lannes]

I am the DM and don't know what to do :-)

The heorism spell has a decent duration 10 min/level, 50 min. minimun at CL5 and perhaps could have be admited, but I am unsure for spells with shorter duration.

[Mark Seifter]

I would use this nice clearer wording on how to handle a long process that boils down to a skill check, from Occult Rituals: "Furthermore, because of the specific procedures of ritual casting, mundane equipment that grants bonuses on skill checks can't usually increase the caster's bonus on the checks required by the ritual, unless the GM allows it. Bonuses on the skill checks required for the ritual that are granted by feats, spells (with enough duration to last throughout the casting), traits, and magic items usually apply, at the GM's discretion."

For DMIC, the process of the challenge takes one or more 8 hour workdays, so that would be a lot of heroisms, but could be doable.

[Lannes]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Bonuses on the skill checks required for the ritual that are granted by feats, spells (with enough duration to last throughout the casting), traits, and magic items usually apply, at the GM's discretion."

For DMIC, the process of the challenge takes one or more 8 hour workdays, so that would be a lot of heroisms, but could be doable.

Ok, thanks, I have to be stricter about these skill bonus.

[Lannes]

Though I know my players are going to say they are casting guidance, a 0 level spell, all the day creating magic items, once each minute during 8 hours, 480 times :-)