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Nothing yet.
EDIT: Wait, I take that back: in my copy of the PHB, the divine favor spell is listed in the spell descriptions but not on any of the class spell lists. I'm assuming it's supposed to be a cleric spell.
Nothing yet.
EDIT: Wait, I take that back: in my copy of the PHB, the divine favor spell is listed in the spell descriptions but not on any of the class spell lists. I'm assuming it's supposed to be a cleric spell.
Divine Favor is listed as a Paladin's spell in my PHB.
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I really dislike that the only way to find out what a magic item does is to cast identify, and each casting of that spell costs you a 100 gp pearl. My wizard is already cash starved based on how much it costs to scribe scrolls into my book, and now I have to tell my allies that if they want me to find out what that magic sword does, they need to shell out the money, since mine's all tied up in improving my abilities.
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I really dislike that the only way to find out what a magic item does is to cast identify, and each casting of that spell costs you a 100 gp pearl. My wizard is already cash starved based on how much it costs to scribe scrolls into my book, and now I have to tell my allies that if they want me to find out what that magic sword does, they need to shell out the money, since mine's all tied up in improving my abilities.
Did you read the rules for material components very carefully? I don't have the identify spell in front of me, but if it doesn't specifically say in the spell description that the pearl is consumed, then it isn't.
What Pathfinder treats as a Focus component is in 5E just a material component that the spell doesn't say gets used up. So I'd re-read identify if I were you; it's very likely that you just need to carry around a single pearl.
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You don't need to cast identify according to the rules. If you examine the magic item during a short rest it reveals all its properties to you.
Jiggy is correct about the pearl. It's not consumed so you only ever need one pearl.
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I'm finding using the Life cleric's Channel Divinity: Preserve Life kind of annoying. It only heals up to half your maximum, so PCs need to be very hurt to benefit from it. I wish it worked like Pathfinder's channel energy ability, where it just healed, no matter how hurt you are.
We have a barbarian in the party that draws agro like crazy, and I've spent more than a few fights spending tons of spell slots and potions keeping him up. Granted, that's my job as a cleric, and I like it, but I wish I could me more efficient at it. We're playing Rise of the Rune Lords, so we're often fighting tons of giants at once. In combat healing is what keeps us alive.
I might speak to my DM and see if I can spend a feat to let my Channel Divinity: Preserve Life work no matter how injured the party is.
Does anyone know what the deal is with Destructive Wave? It is listed as a 5th level evocation spell but is not on any class's spell list unless you count the Tempest Domain spells granted at 9th level. I wonder if this spell is really intended to only be available to that one specific cleric domain.
Does anyone know what the deal is with Destructive Wave? It is listed as a 5th level evocation spell but is not on any class's spell list unless you count the Tempest Domain spells granted at 9th level. I wonder if this spell is really intended to only be available to that one specific cleric domain.
Destructive Smite is listed as a 5th level Paladin spell, but lacks a spell description. I assume they renamed it to avoid confusion with the class ability, but whoever proofread the class lists didn't get the memo. On the other hand, Banishing Smite is called that in both places, so don't ask me.
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My understanding from another forum is that in general, the game expects a day that goes 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, long rest to allow all classes to shine, but I'm finding it hard to design more than 2-3 encounters a day (just to pack that many baddies into a single day).
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My understanding from another forum is that in general, the game expects a day that goes 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, long rest to allow all classes to shine, but I'm finding it hard to design more than 2-3 encounters a day (just to pack that many baddies into a single day).
Maybe try waves of enemies? Like reinforcements show up 1d12 rounds after combat starts? Or while most of the guards are fighting, another one begins releasing wardogs from their cages?
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My understanding from another forum is that in general, the game expects a day that goes 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, long rest to allow all classes to shine, but I'm finding it hard to design more than 2-3 encounters a day (just to pack that many baddies into a single day).
My only "problem" has been about that; you really need to relentlessly send waves of encounters every day to get through a character's resources and even if you do, it will be fresh as a rose the next day (with half its hit Dice).
There's the slow healing variant, but its going to the extreme opposite where resources are way too precious. I'd be most comfortable somewhere in between.
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Maybe if during a long rest, instead of healing all the way, you could spend hit dice and maximize the result?
And you would only regain hit dice if you spent a long rest without spending any?
My understanding from another forum is that in general, the game expects a day that goes 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, long rest to allow all classes to shine, but I'm finding it hard to design more than 2-3 encounters a day (just to pack that many baddies into a single day).Maybe try waves of enemies? Like reinforcements show up 1d12 rounds after combat starts? Or while most of the guards are fighting, another one begins releasing wardogs from their cages?
Doesn't work for the short rest recharge people, since that takes an hour. Right now they're just kind of inferior to long rest recharge, since it's hard to design to allow them both to shine.
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It would appear that the healing rules are a flashpoint for many groups. Would you characterize it as a matter of play styles?
I'm also curious to see what the next D&D survey will reveal about spell balance. I've yet to really see anything that is especially terrible, outside of the usual offenders.
I'm still preparing for what is hopefully my first foray into running 4th edition, so I will hopefully have more to say on the matter in the coming weeks.
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It would appear that the healing rules are a flashpoint for many groups.
Really? What kinds of complaints have you heard? My PbP players are almost to 3rd level and haven't really had an issue, and my F2F group has been fine with the healing rules as well. I'd be very interested in different opinions (I have an interest in game design, so hearing all the angles is important to me).
Oh, also, I was meaning to ask: where's this thread's companion, the thread for "5th Edition in Practice: Things that worked better than you expected"? I assume that you'd have made such a thread if you're looking to get a picture of what 5E is actually like to play, but I haven't been able to find it. Do you have a link?
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As for the healing, I would say that the opinion is divided on how to handle healing during rests, more particularly about whether or not to employ the hit dice healing, and how that interacts with clerical roles (and the expectations put on that class).
I just wondered if anyone had further insight into the issue.
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Here is the sister thread.
Thanks!
As for the healing, I would say that the opinion is divided on how to handle healing during rests, more particularly about whether or not to employ the hit dice healing, and how that interacts with clerical roles (and the expectations put on that class).
I just wondered if anyone had further insight into the issue.
So, sounds like you're saying you've heard from people who feared that the ability to do significant self-healing in an hour steps on the cleric's toes by making a healer less necessary. Is that what you mean?
Oi, had a TPK for 1st level party... We were running the Horde of the Dragon Queen and there were just SO many encounters/baddies and at that level there was almost NO healing (we had a bard and a cleric but without potions or some sorta healing spring they quickly burned through their restorative powers)
DM even allowed for the saved priest to use a Cure Wounds spell, but healing was SO limited at level 1 and there were SEVERAL encounters (and since you could only Short rest one time for any benefit)...
Anyway- TPK with a CR 2 mob...
Players didn't exactly play the game with the smartest strategy but also didn't do much RP to earn Inspiration points. Maybe it is just new system learning curve.
I play a cleric, and I certainly don't mind everyone healing on their own. I just think the Channel Divinity Preserve Life ability is a little awkward.
Having folk able to self-heal lets me use my magic for other things, like buffing, de-buffing, divining, and occasionally blasting.
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Here is the sister thread.Thanks!
So, sounds like you're saying you've heard from people who feared that the ability to do significant self-healing in an hour steps on the cleric's toes by making a healer less necessary. Is that what you mean?As for the healing, I would say that the opinion is divided on how to handle healing during rests, more particularly about whether or not to employ the hit dice healing, and how that interacts with clerical roles (and the expectations put on that class).
I just wondered if anyone had further insight into the issue.
Yes and no. I have heard that the ability to heal between encounters has been undesired by some game masters, though I have also heard that clerics feel less obliged to provide healing so that they are not merely a healing dispenser during fights, so I think that the good and bad come from different sources, as it were.
However, I want to know what people have experienced with this, if the concern is valid, and how it has worked out. What I've seen is that some have either eschewed the healing altogether, or altered it in some way when it did not suit their needs. Perhaps it should be a topic unto itself.
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Re: healing. Anything, even decent ideas, that even HINT at 4e influence, makes some people mad. I like it, personally, cuts down on the whining about misusing resources.
Yeah, I'm guilty on that score. I hated 4th edition (never even deigned to play it) and its "healing surges" and was not a fan of the "hit dice" healing mechanic of 5E until I actually played a few sessions and now I'm kinda, sorta, maybe...okay with it. That was a difficult admission for an old grognard like myself.
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Re: healing. Anything, even decent ideas, that even HINT at 4e influence, makes some people mad. I like it, personally, cuts down on the whining about misusing resources.Yeah, I'm guilty on that score. I hated 4th edition (never even deigned to play it) and its "healing surges" and was not a fan of the "hit dice" healing mechanic of 5E until I actually played a few sessions and now I'm kinda, sorta, maybe...okay with it. That was a difficult admission for an old grognard like myself.
I didn't care much for 4e overall, but it did have some nice innovations. I'm glad a few of them made it into 5e.
First game in '79, o I am right there with you on the old school front. ;-)
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I gotta say, no complaints. I am enamored of this edition. I have been playing since it came out and there are some class/race imbalances but nothing that makes any class or race combo a "broken win" build nor are any combos made into "weak-sauce" builds.
I love it. Combat is smooth and quick, character creation is a breeze, designing new aspects such as homebrew races, classes, and archetypes is fairly simple.
I have no complaints and I really thought I would when the edition first came out.
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Oi, had a TPK for 1st level party... We were running the Horde of the Dragon Queen and there were just SO many encounters/baddies and at that level there was almost NO healing (we had a bard and a cleric but without potions or some sorta healing spring they quickly burned through their restorative powers)
DM even allowed for the saved priest to use a Cure Wounds spell, but healing was SO limited at level 1 and there were SEVERAL encounters (and since you could only Short rest one time for any benefit)...
Anyway- TPK with a CR 2 mob...
Players didn't exactly play the game with the smartest strategy but also didn't do much RP to earn Inspiration points. Maybe it is just new system learning curve.
Yeah that module is brutal to level ones. I mean you can't help but kill the 5ed Kobold but there are just so darn many of them. Every five feet 6 more kobolds and a cultist.
I found that once the party made second level they were smashing their foes left and right with little effort. Especially once our cleric realized he could attack twice in a round with his bonus actions.
Also don't feel bad about inserting a potion or two on a dead cultist, cuz they will need it. It's only 50gp to buy for 2d4+2 hp returned.
But that is my hiccup with the system. I bought the DMG and read the player crafting rules, and if I understand it correctly it would cost at least 100gp to make a potion one could buy for 50gp.
You can use the Herbalism toolkit to make a potion of healing, too.
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I just wondered if anyone had further insight into the issue.
Mike Mearls Legend & Lore from June 2013 talks about Hit Points and Healing as indicators of genre (or playstyle preference).
If there's an area where they expect different tables to 'house rule' to match their playstyle it is HP and their recovery.
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You can use the Herbalism toolkit to make a potion of healing, too.
I saw this in the players handbook as well, but... How? There weren't any instructions for it or an equivalent exchange nod that I could find (I was not exhaustive in reading the book so I may very well have overlooked it). I didn't see anything about HOW you would use tools to MAKE stuff: Like Alchemists tools to make Acid flasks... I tried finding that too...?
I am confident it is stated plainly in the book and just in an odd section (kinda like DR and Enhancement bonuses in PF... that $#!+ irritates the #311 outta me).
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You can use the Herbalism toolkit to make a potion of healing, too.
I saw this in the players handbook as well, but... How? There weren't any instructions for it or an equivalent exchange nod that I could find (I was not exhaustive in reading the book so I may very well have overlooked it). I didn't see anything about HOW you would use tools to MAKE stuff: Like Alchemists tools to make Acid flasks... I tried finding that too...?
I am confident it is stated plainly in the book and just in an odd section (kinda like DR and Enhancement bonuses in PF... that $#!+ irritates the #311 outta me).
How to make healing potions, alchemist fire, acid flask, poison, and the like is up to the DM.
GitPG user Fralex, did a nice job writing down rules for foraging, and potion crafting, including a list of recipe for a lot of potions and alchemy concoction.
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You can use the Herbalism toolkit to make a potion of healing, too.
I saw this in the players handbook as well, but... How? There weren't any instructions for it or an equivalent exchange nod that I could find (I was not exhaustive in reading the book so I may very well have overlooked it). I didn't see anything about HOW you would use tools to MAKE stuff: Like Alchemists tools to make Acid flasks... I tried finding that too...?
I am confident it is stated plainly in the book and just in an odd section (kinda like DR and Enhancement bonuses in PF... that $#!+ irritates the #311 outta me).
How to make healing potions, alchemist fire, acid flask, poison, and the like is up to the DM.
GitPG user Fralex, did a nice job writing down rules for foraging, and potion crafting, including a list of recipe for a lot of potions and alchemy concoction.
Wow, those rules look really interesting and seem to add a whole new level of detail to a relatively overlooked and handwaved aspect of the game. I can't wait to discuss adding them with my group....thanks for posting them!
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I think I finally came up with something I don't like in 5E: your skill selections are basically set in stone at 1st level. Outside of some very specific class features (like becoming a Lore bard), you're going to hit 20th level and be proficient in exactly the same set of skills you were proficient in at 1st level.
If your game uses feats, then you can exchange one of your stat boosts for a handful of proficiencies, but then it has to be a whole batch of skills that you suddenly learn. What if you've been adventuring for five levels and you feel like it would make sense for your character to pick up such-and-such a skill? The system doesn't support it; you would need to ask the GM for a houserule in order to learn something new.
I'm going to offer my PbP campaign a new houserule whereby each time you level up you can make effort toward eventually learning a new skill (or tool) proficiency.
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Actually, you can use downtime to train in a new language or set of tools. I believe that the DMG expand this to skills and feat with your DM approval.
Training last for 250 days and cost 1 gp per day. For feat I'd either up the cost or send the pc on a quest to find a tutor.
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If you're prepared to do some bookwork (and disrupt the expected simplicity), you could "dual-class" a proficiency and refuse to advance it when your proficiency bonus expands. In return, you could then switch that +1 bonus to a new proficiency granted by your class, but you would then not be able to advance the old proficiency and your new one would be a much lower level than the others (starting +1 with a minimum proficiency bonus of +3)..
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I think I finally came up with something I don't like in 5E: your skill selections are basically set in stone at 1st level. Outside of some very specific class features (like becoming a Lore bard), you're going to hit 20th level and be proficient in exactly the same set of skills you were proficient in at 1st level.
If your game uses feats, then you can exchange one of your stat boosts for a handful of proficiencies, but then it has to be a whole batch of skills that you suddenly learn. What if you've been adventuring for five levels and you feel like it would make sense for your character to pick up such-and-such a skill? The system doesn't support it; you would need to ask the GM for a houserule in order to learn something new.
I'm going to offer my PbP campaign a new houserule whereby each time you level up you can make effort toward eventually learning a new skill (or tool) proficiency.
I had a similar issue, but I'm more concerned with the fact that I can't make any sacrifices at character creation to get more skill proficiencies. I'm used to Pathfinder, where I can put a 12 in Int to get an extra skill/level, and did the same thing out of habit on my 5e Ranger.
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I quit playing 4th Edition because I felt like I had little to no agency in how my character develops beyond 1st level. Skills are set in stone and level up automatically. The power system gave an illusion of choice -- while it allowed me to pick from three or four powers every other level, each power relied on a specific build you had to choose at character creation. Unless you got insanely good ability scores that let you have two secondary ability scores, there was little reason to pick a power that wasn't specifically designed for your build path.
I feared the same problem would appear in 5th Edition, and it seems like that appears to be the case. Your skills are set in stone. The most adjacency you have during level ups is the "path" your class allows at 3rd level. Yeah, there's feats if your DM allows them, but the feats don't scale or give you different options at different levels. A 20th level fighter draws from the same feat pool as does a 4th level fighter. The game seems deliberately built around low level play (even the developers said so).
For those who had the pleasure of playing a 5th Edition game, are my concerns actually present in the game? Having a character adapt in response to their adventure experiences has massive appeal to me. A character that follows a set path and doesn't change with respect to their experiences strikes me as really boring.
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For those who had the pleasure of playing a 5th Edition game, are my concerns actually present in the game? Having a character adapt in response to their adventure experiences has massive appeal to me. A character that follows a set path and doesn't change with respect to their experiences strikes me as really boring.
I'll give you this Cyrad, when playing a cloned character for the second time for 1st-12th level, choosing nearly the same stats and path progression, in numbers the two characters were very similar.
However, what I was delighted to find (and hopefully this can be true of most systems) is that the characters developed differently socially, mentally, and tactically. Because they had difference enemies, experiences, allies and goals, they developed their personalities and to a point, their role in combat and social situations in unique ways. We collected different treasure, learned tactics for different enemies and had different availability of resources (like town, resting, consumables, etc).
Basically, thanks to the story they progressed through they became very different characters despite looking similar on paper - sans equipment section.
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For those who had the pleasure of playing a 5th Edition game, are my concerns actually present in the game? Having a character adapt in response to their adventure experiences has massive appeal to me. A character that follows a set path and doesn't change with respect to their experiences strikes me as really boring.
I converted my D&D Next campaign over to 5E and played it to 21st level. We started a new campaign and are now up to 4th level.
I heavily use factions and downtime in the game to open up in world possibilities for character growth. While the PCs do choose some class abilities and ability score increases, and for some classes spells, it is factions and downtime that really make the characters unique.
Here are two examples. One PC choose a background of keeper (law enforcer) and another judge (like the traveling hanging judges of the Old West). Both backgrounds also exist as factions which the PCs can advance in. They can do so by completing quests that advance that faction's goals or by spending downtime working those goals.
I tied feats and multiclassing to factions. PCs who join factions get a big mechanical benefit but this option isn't necessary to make factions work.
Downtime also works wonders. PCs can pursue all kinds of activities, including improving skills. Or work in a faction, run a business, carouse, start rumors about enemies, and many other options.
So PCs grow, just not all in the same way. Some PCs increase faction renown, some work on making new items, and some work on building new temples and locations for their factions. The warlock looks for eldritch tomes of mind-blasting secrets while at the same time working in his family's growing merchant empire.
PCs also train at each level. This gives them even more exposure to NPCs who might be part of factions. And opens up new rumors of adventure as well.
All of this works in reverse as well. If a PC wants to learn a feat or multiclass, they can look around for a faction to join. I create one that fits the world. Or they might want training in a new skill; a new NPC mentor might fit the bill.
Add to these character building exercises all the weird and wonderful magic items they find (I use the tables in the DMG to make about half the magic items unique) and each PC is truly unique; shaped by both player will and the ongoing adventures and exploration.
I haven't had a PC want to make a magic item yet, but this would lead to a big quest with all kinds of challenges to overcome. Once completed, the magic item that came out of a quest would have unique powers and a history created through adventure.
The players just have to be reminded that their characters can try to learn and/or do anything. They just have to ask around, research, or seek answers to see how to accomplish what they want whether that is learning a new skill or getting a henchperson (flumphs make great henchpersons).
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You need to remember that skills are basically just an Ability checks and the difference between a skill your procifient in, and one you aren't is +6 at 20th level. +12 if you have Expertise. So basically you can make any skill checks you want. You just won't be as good. It's not the same as in 3.P, that if you didn't max out your skill points you would fail miserably on any skill checks, you weren't proficient in.
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I actually like that Int isn't a bonus skills stat anymore.
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@Cyrad: I guess that depends on how precisely you want to adapt.
If you see that enemies are ignoring you to hit your allies, you could take the Sentinel feat. The feats in 5e have the potential to change how your character plays on a larger scale than 3.x feats which tend to give minor bonuses.
Your path will often have dynamic features, such as spells or techniques you can choose from (ex. Ranger styles, Fighter maneuvers, Barbarian totems), though there are simpler ones which don't offer such choices as well.
There is no denying it has fewer points of customization than 3.x though.
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Yeah, I wish there was a way to do more customization. In PF and 3.5, I usually maxed out most of my skills, but kept 1 skill point per level to dabble in a variety of different things, especially skills I would have picked up in play. For example, if I sailed a lot during a level, I would get a rank in Profession sailor. If I spent a lot of time on horseback, I would take a rank in Ride.
I wish there was a pool of "dabble points" that you could spend on 5th Edition skills, and maybe even Saves and specific weapon Attacks, maybe up to half your Proficiency Bonus?
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And far fewer 'trap options'.
There is no denying it has fewer points of customization than 3.x though.
Yeah, I really like how high the "optimization floor" is. Unlike in Pathfinder, a person who simply reads the class and makes choices accordingly will end up with a reasonable character instead of a background NPC.
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I don't really get the "customization" argument. It is a game of make believe, therefore a game that is 100 percent customization (you can make up whatever you and your friends are willing to deal with). It seems that some players are of the kind that must be able to hold up a RULE and say to the DM
"Because I selected X you must let me do Y"
instead of the kind of player who asks the DM
"I will try to do Y, what do I need to roll to succeed?"
What you're talking about isn't customization. That's just creative play.
I'm talking about customization along the lines of: "I can't quite get all the skills I want for my concept. I'd like to sacrifice some of my Con for more Int, so I'm a little more fragile, but I can do all the things I want to be good at."
I like making characters work differently than you'd expect (a brainy fighter, a swashbuckler with full plate and a heavy shield, etc.), but 5e doesn't really have room for that. But I assume that will change as more source books are released.
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But the rules do not say you must have a skill to try to do anything, it just gives you a bonus on the roll? So what you want is a 10% improvement on the roll, not the ability to try to do something.
If you use a point buy system you can ignore Con completely, keep it to the starting minimum, and put all the points the system will allow into Int, and if you have a willing DM you can start with a con of 5 and an Int of 20, as long as it fits the game you both want to play.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Of course I can use Stealth, even though I don't have it as one of my proficiencies. It was next in line for the skills I wanted, but I only got to pick three. So I'm only OK at it; for my character concept, I'd like to be actually good at it.
In PF, I could say "Oh, I don't have quite enough skill points to keep everything I want maxed. I'll have to give up some of my Con to get more Int so I can get another."
In 5e, I'm left saying "Oh, I don't get enough skill proficiencies to be good at all the things I want... Darn."