So I have been considering having a campaign that goes with the classic idea of the PC's being the players themselves who have been transported into a world of myth and magic.
I was thinking about having everyone start as level 4 Experts with a standard array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. Plus the human +2 to any one score (+1 one more for being level 4). After they get brought into the game world they quickly gain one level in a Adventuring PC Class and can increase their stats somehow (I was thinking +4 to one stat +2 to two one mental and +2 to one physical).
I am sure there are a lot of things that would need to be worked out for this to be viable and would like to start a conversation on this topic.
I was considering having real world achievements be the basis for feats examples:
Real World -> Pathfinder
Black Belt -> Improved Unarmed Strike
College Major -> Skill Focus(Knowledge_______)
Career -> Skill Focus(Profession/Craft_______)
Marathon Runner -> Endurance
Fencer -> Martial Weapon Proficiency that transforms into WF Rapier if they gain a level in a martial class
I was also considering having real world skills provide either synergy bonuses or one to one correlations to more normal Pathfinder skills.
Knowledge(Chemistry) -> Craft(Alchemy)
Computer Use, Knowledge(Mathematics), Knowledge(Physics) -> Synergy to Knowledge(Arcane) and/or Spellcraft
Knowledge(Biology) -> Synergy to Knowledge(Nature) and/or Heal
Profession(Salesperson/Recruiter/etc.) -> Diplomacy
Craft(Artwork)-> Synergy to Perform?
Obviously a lot of things would need to be worked out. I am curious to see what other people think. What real world accomplishments do you think would correlate to feats in Pathfinder? What correlations would real world skills have to pathfinder skills?
I've never done this in pathfinder, but I've had great success with this format in other systems. It was especially helpful for new players, since they might have trouble answering "what does your character do", but they can usually answer "what would you do".
I tried a similar thing with my friends.
It did not go well. Lots of arguing over what real-life skill translated to what in-game bonus. Good thing we were all pretty close to begin with.
I would start with a point-buy and tell the players to approximate an idealized version of themselves. Class choices will break the conversion the most, and I have no suggestion for how to handle it except to say "just deal with whatever they pick," regardless of their personality.
The problem we had came from the fact that everyone has a different opinion on what it means to be "trained in" or "familiar with" or "good at" something, so I might limit all of the skill bonuses to +1s and maybe an extra feat if everyone can balance them out.
I tried a similar thing with my friends.
It did not go well. Lots of arguing over what real-life skill translated to what in-game bonus. Good thing we were all pretty close to begin with.
I would start with a point-buy and tell the players to approximate an idealized version of themselves. Class choices will break the conversion the most, and I have no suggestion for how to handle it except to say "just deal with whatever they pick," regardless of their personality.
The problem we had came from the fact that everyone has a different opinion on what it means to be "trained in" or "familiar with" or "good at" something, so I might limit all of the skill bonuses to +1s and maybe an extra feat if everyone can balance them out.
Well I was thinking that after they approximate themselves as experts they later gain whatever class they want and get an appropriate stat boost.
I think an important point of perspective is whether these are psc based on the players' ststs, or whether they ARE the players' stats. The first leads to far fewer arguements, the second might be a deeper rp experience.
This will likely work much, much better if you go the sort of Guardians of the Flame route.
They have their own personalities, but the bodies and skills of people they've taken the place of in-setting.
Requiring them to actually be themselves is a dubious prospect in Pathfinder. Most people don't have skills that translate AT ALL to a fantasy word where they're expected to live and survive.
It leads to a very asymmetric party where the shmoozers, businessmen, and fighters of the group can actually affect the world in some way, where the dumpy computer programmer with average social skills can't fight, can't be the face, and has an expertise that is entirely worthless in the new setting.
Even the idea of "synergy skills" doesn't help much since there's not much they can DO with these things.
This is a good idea for a novel (see: The Wiz), but not for a game that you actually have to devote hours of your life to PLAYING.
How would you handle real world combatants? In my group I have two US Rangers who both have served at least ten years abroad and have killed at least a hundred people between the two of them. If this was done at the table, the'd both have earned the right to be 4th level Rangers, favored enemy human. I don't know about your group, but in mine there's a HUGE gap between the civilians and ex-military/government.
My recommendation would be to come up with a different idea. There's a lot more to RL experience than a feat and the Expert class
So I'm getting a suspicious feeling that folks are not likeing this idea...
So I'm getting a suspicious feeling that folks are not likeing this idea...
The idea is sound. The implementation is likely to be INCREDIBLY tricky to deal with in an RPG system to the extent that everyone has fun with it, unless the NPC classes and low stats go away after at most a session.
Especially in Pathfinder, which is very combat oriented as a system.
Maybe use a more free-form system and set it in Golarion instead?
I like it. Though you'd have to use retraining rules. You might equate the madness in arcane symbols to patterns that are used in computer programming. But if you really wanr to do this, we need a rundown of your players.
I like it. Though you'd have to use retraining rules. You might equate the madness in arcane symbols to patterns that are used in computer programming. But if you really wanrtto do this, we need a rundown of your players.
More an idle thought about the idea than pre-planning for my next campaign so I don't have players lined up and I'm not sure that I will use this as the idea for my next campaign at all.
I was more curious about how real life things could relate to a pathfinder character. With the assumption of standard array and NPC classes assuming experts. I don't have any ex-military in my current gaming group so I didn't think about how that would work out expert just seemed like a simple background class for folks to have.
For a campaign itself I would give everyone stat boosts in whatever they wanted (within reason) to make them PC level powerful and then give them class levels almost immediately. It was just a way of making a more interesting backstory with some minor bonuses to relevent things.
Experts really are more of jacks of all trades. I think the commoner might be a better choice unless you have somebody with a truly strange set of skills.
EDIT: Actually I take that back. I equate it with rogue too much.
Experts really are more of jacks of all trades. I think the commoner might be a better choice unless you have somebody with a truly strange set of skills.
True, I just sort of assumed (hoped) that with the increase in education common folks might be experts instead. I will probably just need to revisit this idea in the future if I actually decide to run such a campaign.
One thing I think might be true is that a modern education and media exposure has given many of us 'bardic knowledge'. It's very easy to know a little bit about a whole lot, when the internet has been bringing it to you most of your life.
One thing I think might be true is that a modern education and media exposure has given many of us 'bardic knowledge'. It's very easy to know a little bit about a whole lot, when the internet has been bringing it to you most of your life.
That's not Bardic Knowledge, that's the basic rule for being able to make Untrained Knowledge checks for DCs 10 or lower, and Take 10.
So I'm getting a suspicious feeling that folks are not likeing this idea...The idea is sound. The implementation is likely to be INCREDIBLY tricky to deal with in an RPG system to the extent that everyone has fun with it, unless the NPC classes and low stats go away after at most a session.
Especially in Pathfinder, which is very combat oriented as a system.
Maybe use a more free-form system and set it in Golarion instead?
Rynjin is on the mark here. As I mentioned, I used a different system, one that's designed to portray modern humans in a modern setting.
Given the success I had using the other system, I did briefly consider trying it in 3.5, but realised that since none of the players knew magic, or had super power granting anger issues, the concept didn't transfer well.
d20 modern?
d20 modern?
White Wolf/Storyteller
So I have been considering having a campaign that goes with the classic idea of the PC's being the players themselves who have been transported into a world of myth and magic.
I was thinking about having everyone start as level 4 Experts with a standard array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. Plus the human +2 to any one score (+1 one more for being level 4). After they get brought into the game world they quickly gain one level in a Adventuring PC Class and can increase their stats somehow (I was thinking +4 to one stat +2 to two one mental and +2 to one physical).
I am sure there are a lot of things that would need to be worked out for this to be viable and would like to start a conversation on this topic.
I was considering having real world achievements be the basis for feats examples:
Real World -> Pathfinder
Black Belt -> Improved Unarmed Strike
College Major -> Skill Focus(Knowledge_______)
Career -> Skill Focus(Profession/Craft_______)
Marathon Runner -> Endurance
Fencer -> Martial Weapon Proficiency that transforms into WF Rapier if they gain a level in a martial classI was also considering having real world skills provide either synergy bonuses or one to one correlations to more normal Pathfinder skills.
Knowledge(Chemistry) -> Craft(Alchemy)
Computer Use, Knowledge(Mathematics), Knowledge(Physics) -> Synergy to Knowledge(Arcane) and/or Spellcraft
Knowledge(Biology) -> Synergy to Knowledge(Nature) and/or Heal
Profession(Salesperson/Recruiter/etc.) -> Diplomacy
Craft(Artwork)-> Synergy to Perform?Obviously a lot of things would need to be worked out. I am curious to see what other people think. What real world accomplishments do you think would correlate to feats in Pathfinder? What correlations would real world skills have to pathfinder skills?
I really like this set up. I've tried similar campaigns before and they don't always work out well - a lot of people think they're better at something than they really are (Dunning Kruger effect), and then debates and arguments ensue.
Figuring out stats is difficult; but I like that you give a standard array. Think you're smart? Put the 13 in inteligence. And you have to put the 8 somewhere too, even if you think all your stats are above par. This will go a long way to prevent students over who hand what stat and how good they really are. Just tell the players to put up with it and assigns their stats to themselves (I don't care if you think your int is really 17; this is your stats array to start with).
I love the expert idea; prevents arguments over who'd be what class and how good they'd be.
The only challenge is the disparity between life skills and what the character gets; some people have done a lot more than others. It wouldn't bother me, as I'm one of those who has done a lot, but some of my players have done quite a bit less (one player is almost 25 and still doesn't have his driver's lisence).
Overall, though, solid plan.
My friends and I did this in GURPS. We went to the GYM to figure out strength stats, did timed runs to determine speed, etc.
It was fun.
The game's math was deliberately designed such that a 5th level character is roughly the peak of what a real world person is capable of. In other words, Albert Einstein would be a 5th level expert. So having the PCs start out as 4th level means they're already the best of their field.
The game's math was deliberately designed such that a 5th level character is roughly the peak of what a real world person is capable of. In other words, Albert Einstein would be a 5th level expert. So having the PCs start out as 4th level means they're already the best of their field.
That's a good point. So probably level 1 or 2 then except for Nick... The pretentious scodwaggle.
So I'm getting a suspicious feeling that folks are not likeing this idea...
best thing to do is have the into the woods encounter where they adjust and then jump forward an amount of time where they're assumed to have survived and adjusted.
I suggest you use give them a couple modern weapons and drop in the middle of the woods. Throw a couple challenges at them. A wandering wizard gets his spellbook stolen after he gets put down by them. Give them a few encounters like that which will give them resources to practice with while their anmo runs out. A sword spell book. Thieves tools with a lock to practice with etc. Use the firat few levels as a xp sinktake say 10)% of the XP they earn at first and as they hit milestones the modern levels are traded out for PC levels.
My real life self has 3s in all abilities. I suggest you take a Penn Zero, part time hero approach and let them create characters with their face(sort of) and personality. If you want to mess with them, randomly assign them, 1- The copper dragon rogue, 2-The midge pixie sorcerer, 3-The unicorn druid, and 4-the ogre barbarian.
Numeria is definitely an interesting idea
I don't think there is a dislike of the idea so much as there is a wariness-vibe from a lot of people who are aware of how strong egos can be and how fragile gaming groups can be. I'm sure that everyone who is into table top RPGs has given this a thought at some point. But don't be shaken by other people's experiences. Learn what they have to offer from them and try something that you think will work. If it does, that's awesome, but if it doesn't, then you can contribute your experiences in the next thread that comes along like this. ;)
There are a lot of good ideas here, but really, what it all boils down to is a willingness from you and your group to agree on a lot of things that can (and likely will be) contested. There's no "correct" way except the one that facilitates your game and fun.
Might be better to play it as they aren't physically displaced, but instead inhabit shells created for them to use in the new place by whatever person(s) is(are) responsible for dragging them there? That way you don't have to be as concerned about the reality of the stats scores.
Might be better to play it as they aren't physically displaced, but instead inhabit shells created for them to use in the new place by whatever person(s) is(are) responsible for dragging them there? That way you don't have to be as concerned about the reality of the stats scores.
you also no longer need to be human... or the same gender for that matter.
Ask yourself, if you had been born in Glorion, how would you be different?
With all my defects, I would been training as an oracle or medium since birth. Does anti-venom work on allergies? Half my starting gold would be invested in stuff like that.
Ask yourself, if you had been born in Glorion, how would you be different?
I would be quite messy, but filled with honor!
EDIT: To actually add something, I'd like to say I like this idea, but it would be difficult to implement fairly. I second Kryzbyn's idea, while it isn't quite what you were going for, its a good middle ground to go on.
Another idea:
A deity pulls them from the world into Galorian. This deity gives them new bodies (free of disease, allergies, anything bad), and allows them to retain all their knowledge and skills. The deity puts them into new bodies (so they don't use their own Str, dex, or con scores) and maybe "upgrades" their minds so they are smarter.
Then, since they are blessed from the gods, give them a flat 16 across all their stats with one +2 bonus depending on what that individual player believes their highest attribute is in real life.
Extremely high powered game - but this adventure requires a higher caliber of hero. They have to re-imprison an escaped Ravagug.
And the gods need outside help.
Edit: so what this does is allow the players to claim knowledge and skills without arguing over ability scores.
Another idea:
A deity pulls them from the world into Galorian. This deity gives them new bodies (free of disease, allergies, anything bad), and allows them to retain all their knowledge and skills. The deity puts them into new bodies (so they don't use their own Str, dex, or con scores) and maybe "upgrades" their minds so they are smarter.
Then, since they are blessed from the gods, give them a flat 16 across all their stats with one +2 bonus depending on what that individual player believes their highest attribute is in real life.
Extremely high powered game - but this adventure requires a higher caliber of hero. They have to re-imprison an escaped Ravagug.
And the gods need outside help.
Edit: so what this does is allow the players to claim knowledge and skills without arguing over ability scores.
Question on this plot...how do the mortals even MATTER? It took the combined might of every deity extant to seal Rovagug in the firt place. If he's actually for real FREE, even a party of level 20/Mythic 10 characters who start with all 18's are weak and insignificant.
Question on this plot...how do the mortals even MATTER? It took the combined might of every deity extant to seal Rovagug in the firt place. If he's actually for real FREE, even a party of level 20/Mythic 10 characters who start with all 18's are weak and insignificant.Another idea:
A deity pulls them from the world into Galorian. This deity gives them new bodies (free of disease, allergies, anything bad), and allows them to retain all their knowledge and skills. The deity puts them into new bodies (so they don't use their own Str, dex, or con scores) and maybe "upgrades" their minds so they are smarter.
Then, since they are blessed from the gods, give them a flat 16 across all their stats with one +2 bonus depending on what that individual player believes their highest attribute is in real life.
Extremely high powered game - but this adventure requires a higher caliber of hero. They have to re-imprison an escaped Ravagug.
And the gods need outside help.
Edit: so what this does is allow the players to claim knowledge and skills without arguing over ability scores.
I don't know. I didn't give it any thought beyond what I typed. It was the first thing I thought of where the gods would actually need someone's help at something.
With your added info, what about: "Need to prevent his escape"?
Or maybe they need to stop a new psychotic god that just obtained god hood via the star stone.
Perhaps it's a shard of him?
I was thinking about having everyone start as level 4 Experts with a standard array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. Plus the human +2 to any one score (+1 one more for being level 4).
The original Villains and Vigilantes game started with the concept that your character was YOU but you got super powers. They had a 3-18 starting stat system where your fellow players rated you on each stat.
That in itself can be a very interesting game night.
One should also remember that a ton of skills and abilities we have in the real world are worth jack s+@% in a world with no power tools, internet, mass communication, computers or (mostly) supermarkets.
Your average civilized man today does not usually have the necessary basic survival skills to make it in most adventuring worlds.
Question on this plot...how do the mortals even MATTER? It took the combined might of every deity extant to seal Rovagug in the firt place. If he's actually for real FREE, even a party of level 20/Mythic 10 characters who start with all 18's are weak and insignificant.
Maybe due to the 'players' specific other/extra dimensional nature/energies they can affect Rovagug in a way that he cannot defend against or in a way that his defenses are nearly useless against so they have a chance. Or they are meant to weaken him enough that the gods can come in and finish him without real threat to themselves?
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A little late to the discussion, but I thought I might add: this worked for us back in 2nd Edition AD&D: Strength directly translated to what we could lift, intelligence x10 was (supposed to be) IQ (most of us had the results back then), and of course we all had 18 Charisma.
Non-Weapon profs worked really well for skills, though. This was Boy Scout summer camp, and Merit Badges were on our minds. Have your Wilderness Survival merit badge? There you go, proficient in Survival, etc. Swimming Merit Badge? Swimming proficient. Know how to fold a map? Boom, proficient in Cartography.
Weapons were a bit more fuzzy; those of us in Karate or Tae Kwon Do claimed proficiency in whatever we'd trained with. I think if you had a belt, you had a level in that class (so, a yellow belt might have been a level 2 Fighter). Anyone with Archery training was proficient in longbow and got Bowyer/Fletcher nonweap. Anyone with Rifle/Shotgun training was proficient in Arquebus.
Obviously, rules were bent, and I don't recall actually PLAYING the characters; it was more of a thought exercise.
I think I ended up a Level 4 Druid* proficient in Longbow and Nunchucks, somehow. Hey, I was like 13.
*Because I'd been an Altar Boy all through grade school, but didn't want to play a Cleric.
I like no game no lifes plot. god is bored, is impressed by the character's abilities and brings them to their world to have a worth challenger.
It would be worth to be there for the moment you are going to tell someone
"put 8 in charisma"
The best way to approach this would be to give them a standardized array of stats and ask them to order their stats based on what they percieve are best at.
I second the idea of letting them retrain their base NPC class (expert or commoner) to something that fits their role during their progressive adaptation to the new word. Set milestone to let them upgrade their stats array by progressively increasing their "point buy".
And try not to get the conversation on "what allignment you think you are". Just give them a true neutral start and adapt it based on how they act in the new word.
use loyalty system instead of alignment, it's like 50 times funner.