So I'm going to be starting a new game with my group soon and I had a few questions.
First off I had an idea for the group to basically meet up during a festival celebration in a large walled in city. But during said celebration I was going to have the city attacked by a very large group of monsters and the like. Basically my idea is to have the walls of the city knocked down by a large magic/alchemy/steampunk powered siege vehicle because a few people in the group I know absolutely love machines like that. Anyway my plan for them is to have them end up fighting to it and taking it out. An idea I had to actually get them to the machine would be to have them be brought to it by a retired paladin living in the city.
Basically he is going to be this super overpowered NPC who will stay with them for a bit and help them get into and fight through the machine. But a little bit of the way through I'm planning on having there be a showdown with a recurring villain. A cleric of an evil cult who is insane and very powerful. During the fight I'm planning on making it known that the paladin and the cleric have met before and it was assumed that the cleric was dead. My idea for the fight was to have the cleric and a bunch summoned monsters face off against the party plus the paladin. During the fight I'm planning on having the cleric kill the paladin really easily to help the party understand what they're dealing with. Eventually once the cleric hits zero HP I'm going to have him run and teleport away. Afterwards the part will fight through and shut down the siege engine and help break the siege.
Now I know that this could go way off course depending on PC actions which is fine. But I was wondering if this sounds a bot railroady to you guys and if having the paladin with them is a good idea or not. Also I was wondering if there might be some way to help the party replenish spells and hp during the day because the game is expected to start at level 1 and I feel like there is way too much for a group of level 1's to deal with in a single day.
Any and all suggestions are welcome and I would love feedback on if this sounds like a cool idea or not because I want everybody to have fun with this.
I am fine with bending the rules as needed and all so don't be afraid to suggest stuff that breaks the rules
Generally I agree with everything kestral says, but there's also the Wrath of the Righteous intro, where the PCs have absolutely no input at all to the "big fight", it's just narrated by the GM.
That could work even if the PCs have never met the paladin (which might be a good idea, but it's your adventure), when he arrives on the scene just as the PCs spot the cleric, everyone cheers for the arrival of their saviour, there's a big scrap, and the paladin goes down.
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Perhaps, for this cleric, they aren't worth killing. He's insane, after all. Maybe he's so drunk on hubris that he shrugs off their attacks for a few rounds (just to bask in their helplessness) before teleporting away. After all, it's simply inconceivable* that worthless would-be heroes like these could threaten his glorious task.
If you can set up that he's the eventual villain, this sets up their grudge against him - in my experience, PCs hate being dismissed. And seriously, hubris is great for villains.
If at all possible, I'd set up the paladin too. Give them time to learn to like him. Maybe drag out the celebration a little, but hint that "real excitement" is coming... try to build a little tension. What's the celebration about, anyway? Perhaps a celebration of their victory over the machine-builders? ^_^
Don't let on that the paladin's actually powerful - have him stay humble until he has no choice. Maybe he tells a tale of his exploits against this cleric - that'll help set up the villain. As for healing, check out the hospitaler archetype. It'll give his healing powers a little boost. There's also the oath of charity. Big fan of that.
I would also have him be separated from the PCs when the attack starts - make them fight through some foes, and at a certain point, or when they're losing/out of healing... the paladin shows up with the heals. Then, he guides them to the Doom Engine. Perhaps he noted (in his earlier story) that the foes they're fighting are the same as those he fought in service to the cleric.
*He keeps using this word. Perhaps he doesn't know what it means...
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I agree with Kestral and like the direction Kalindlara is going, although I'm a sucker for more of a Gandalf, "Fly, you fools," moment than the dismissive villain who leaves because he's bored, or because he wants them to eventually bask in his world-dominating glory.
But what's evil cleric after? If the Paladin is the biggest champion around and he gets stomped, why does the cleric leave? It's seems he's winning. Or is he just after something in town, some magic artifact?
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Well, the simple solution to the PCs surviving an encounter with a Cleric that can murder them all easily normally, is if the Paladin doesn't die easy, but instead gets the Cleric down to...oh, call it 10 HP. And has run him out of healing spells. At that point, any hit has a real chance of taking him out, and so retreating makes sense for a cautious man.
If you've built up the Paladin's badassness enough, just the fact he was defeated, even by a close margin, will have the desired effect.
It could be the Paladin has something he took from the Cleric when he defeated him before, maybe an amulet or something else he keeps on him. The attack on the town is just a way to draw the paladin out and when the paladin shows up to stop the siege engine the cleric springs his trap. The role of the players is to save towns people and then defeat the siege engine as the cleric leaves it to destroy the town after he takes his prize.
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Id make part of the city celebration the pally's retirement. Have the PCs interact a bit with the pally and city citizens for awhile. Then, Id have the city get attacked as you planned. However, Id keep the pally away from the party entirely and come up with a series of encounters for the party to face. If they get low on HP have a random NPC in the town come patch them up before the next fight. Eventually, the PCs take out the siege machine. Meanwhile, the Pally and cleric have been fighting offstage. When the PCs takeout the siege engine they hear a commotion nearby. When they reach the scene the badly wounded evil cleric is running away as the paladin lays dead.
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Super overpowered at low levels isn't insurmountable. You're likely aiming a bit too high.
You've a party of 1st level guys (presumably) so a 5th level paladin should be a god of war. He can tear through goblins, his armor will stop most of their stuff, but he might get clipped here and there.
The party will probably appreciate him more if they fight along side him then if he makes it feel like they could sit back and do nothing, while still making it clear he's escorting them.
An enemy cleric of say 5-6th level could conceivably kill an expended or injured paladin (might add some guilt/motivation by having him use his last lay on hands to heal a damaged party member and then not have it there later when he needs it).
Maybe have the cleric sic a ghoul on him, and then stride up and CDG his paralyzed self.
Ghouls aren't outside of the 1st level party's wheel house (although they are dangerous), and it still establishes things a bit.
Be very careful about making the PC's sit and watch this Paladin kick all the butt for them. You don't want your PC's sitting with their chins on their hands going "yeah, he's super strong, I get it." If the encounter feels too scripted, it takes PC's out of the immersion and they start watching a play instead of acting in one.
Your best opportunities to give them the impression that the Paladin is a baller is during the festival. Maybe he's had a few drinks and his humbleness has ebbed slightly, and he's challenging others to arm wrestling matches. In between dominating each opponent, he shares stories of his old exploits.
Other opportunities could come up during the actual encounter, but try to keep it reactionary. If the group gets overwhelmed or some bad rolls leave them in a sticky spot, the Paladin comes in and saves them.
As for the Cleric, I'm with what others have said about the group not fighting him. It will leave them itching for a rematch even more if they don't even get the opportunity to take a whack at him. Maybe he leaves because before he kills the paladin, the Paladin actually immobilizes the siege engine. This would ruin the Cleric's assault, but still require the PC's to have to take it out because it can still do a lot of damage as a turret, though not enough for the Cleric to stay committed.
1. Figure out why the cleric is attacking the city.
I would go with stealing a McGuffin. Something important and powerful that if it fell into the wrong hands... etc, etc. The value of this is it allows the cleric to win the encounter more easily. He doesn't need to destroy the city or everyone in it, that comes later. Right now he just needs this one thing and he'll leave.
2. Figure out why the cleric can't destroy the city.
Yes he can attack and do severe damage, but eventually he'll be stopped or fail for some reason. Maybe the Paladin has a group of old adventuring buddies who will come to finish the job and defend the city. Maybe the city is guarded by angels, but it takes time for them to show up. Whatever it is, it'll show up soon, but it won't be the first responder, that's the Paladin.
3. Figure out why someone else doesn't chase the cleric to end him.
This powerful bad guy just stole something important, killed dozens or hundreds of people and could still cause havoc. You need a reason why the PC's are getting involved and not whoever is powerful enough to protect the city, or some other experienced group of adventurers. Obviously the story is about the PC's, but an in game reason for why helps.
Have the cleric not be completely depraved. Indicriminate killers are too common in most games. Perhaps she wants to kill the paladin, but would prefer to limit collateral damage.
For example, say she’s a chaotic neutral warpriest of Calistria. The paladin did something to mortally offend her--perhaps he meted out justice to someone she cared about, perhaps he spurned her, perhaps he did something terrible that he became a paladin to atone for--something she cannot forgive, even if her goddess would permit her to.
But as a wise Calistrian, she understands how the cycle of revenge perpetuates itself. She would prefer not to make more enemies by killing anyone she doesn’t have to, and being so much more powerful than the party, she can incapacitate them with hold person, merciful spells, and nonlethal whip strikes without much trouble.
She’ll probably feel some sympathy toward the party after killing their friend, and might even encourage them to seek revenge. It’s what her goddess would want, after all.
I promise you this antagonist will be 100% more interesting to your players than crazy killer priest.
This would fit differently with your siege plot. She wouldn't be leading the attack--she'd be taking advantage of the chaos.
These ideas all sound cool and very cinematic. I especially like how you're adding the machine purely because some of the players enjoy that stuff. It shows you've already got the mindset of someone who wants to share their game with their players rather than throw it at them.
That being said its very easy with a powerful NPC to make scenes more about you than the PCs. I'd be careful with the retired paladin/cleric showdown. It can easily become you playing and your players watching from the sidelines.
My suggestion would be to have the PCs and paladin get separated in the bowels of the machine. Make the thing SO big that the machine itself is a dungeon. Have the paladin say "I'm headed up to the bridge to stall for time; you four head down to the engine room. Its up to you to save the city by stopping this juggernaut!" this makes the party feel important and also gets the paladin out of the way.
After they've fought their way down to the engine and killed the device they also have a bird's eye view of the street outside through a port window. Suddenly there's a crash from above and the paladin hits the pavers followed by the evil cleric. The PCs catch snippets of the banter between the two and get the idea that the 2 are old foes. Finally, in the end the paladin is struck down but the cleric is so hurt from the smiting that he needs to flee.
Once the PCs finally make it out to the paladin's broken body he's on his last breaths. The party gets a final warning from the old hero and maybe he lays hands on them and imparts some power of the divine on them or their items or something.
Now the PCs have a holy mission, a cool origin story and an arch villain to deal with.
The most important rule of a good GM is that the players are the center of the story. This does not mean that you can’t have powerful NPC’s; it simply means the story should be about what the PC are doing. There are a couple of ways to achieve this.
First is to use a narrative approach for most of the scenes involving the powerful character. Instead of playing out the event with game rules simply tell that part of the story. Have something to keep the players occupied with and just tell them what happens. The Fly you fools scene from lord of the rings is a good example of this.
The second is to break the battle up and focus on the player’s scene. Have the characters be responsible for defending one of a number of gates instead of worrying about all the gates. In your case have the cleric show up with the machine instead of after. This way the paladin tells the player to take care of the machine while he deals with the cleric. Run the battle of the PC vs the machine and narrate the battle between the paladin and the cleric.
This keeps the focus on the players, but still allows the story elements you want. One last warning is be careful of allowing the PC’s to fight with latter threats too early. This often leads to either the players getting killed, or the main villain being defeated before it is supposed to be.
Fear,
tl;dr: Separate the story from the interactive adventure. Have the party not need to fight in every battle that happens at the town.
I've done a lot of mechanical showdowns with parties that were way under or over level. For example, I had a bunch of level 10 4th edition characters face off against a level 20 Pathfinder necromancer (time travel shenanigans).
The whole point of that encounter wasn't a straight up fight though as the wizard would have mopped up even 4th ed. characters. It was to terrify the meta-gaming players by saying, "Timestop!" The wizard had like 4 spells left, 6 hp. It was a just a fun, quick encounter.
You've got:
1.) an awesome story idea.
2.) a great introduction setting.
3.) some specific factors you want to add in: siege engine, paladin, evil cleric.
I like Mark Hoover's take of turning the engine into a dungeon and having only the death witnessed.
I would suggest alternatively that the city is very large and hit by multiple siege engines. The heroes are quickly recruited to deal with one of them by either the Paladin or the City Guard. This sets the PC's power level at "better than city guards, but can't wipe the city."
Now, separate the villains. If the PC's interact with a level 20 cleric BBEG now, they will get no payback for months and months of sessions. What if the BBEG used an alliance with a steam punk civilization to attack the city? While the city was attacked, he Air walked in with his gated demons to steal the McGuffin he was really after, then abandoning the allies to their fate.
The Paladin might have realized this as he was issuing order to the PCs, suddenly shouting "Go! Stop the engine! I must protect the..."
The players win, report back to the temple and discover:
1.) Dead paladins and demons everywhere. Make the demons gated so they are really there when dead.
2.) the critically injured Paladin, who will refuse any resurrections that he could effortlessly afford because he wants to report directly to his lord.
3.) Their next mission: find out why the steampunk nation attacked.
If you want the party to witness the Paladin fall, give the siege engine an escape pod that they have to take after they brick the engine. Have that pod cannon them directly into the temple where the gated Balor is trashing the place with the evil cleric. Use the pod to smush the demon, convincing the cleric to grab the item and go. Have the players roll fort DC 20 or be dazed for x rounds of cleric taunting. If someone makes their roll, give them something useful to do like saving a lesser artifact.
I'm really loving all of your suggestions guys.
Like Mark was saying about making the siege engine a dungeon of itself was kinda my plan from the beginning I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. But my plan was to have most of the beginning take place inside of the siege engine hence the question about resting. I was thinking of having it be so large that it could basically be a landship full of crew and the like and have it kinda behave like a large ship as in it would have different areas like a barracks, bridge, a weapons area, a mess hall and the like.
For the fight with the cleric I was planning on having a large group of monsters between the PCs and the showdown so the showdown wouldn't actually have any dice rolling for it or anything, basically every turn I make a few secret rolls that mean nothing and then describe what happens between the two fighting as I manage the actual fight with the PCs.
One idea I had was a "rest potion" type item found in the "barracks" aka a store room full of them. The explanation is basically that instead of having the crew rest the cleric just has them hyped up on magical potions to keep them working, and the potions would essentially be the same as hours of rest.
The potion idea was just a random thought though so how does it sound to you guys?