Would you allow this in a normal Paizo / no 3rd party or Gestalt group?


Homebrew and House Rules


I had a player contact me, asking if somebody could play this custom made class because his normal Ranged Paladin of Erastil, didn't have the feel or power he wanted and was "Too constraining with his normal Pally code and alignment" My opinion is a flat out no, but really wished to hear from anyone with their "no holds barred Internet comments". Please don't be shy.

Wardens are divine hunters and trackers of the wilds that have forged close bonds with a divine animal companion. Once a man has proven himself worthy to his deity he swears a Warden Oath to always protect the forests and their inhabitants, and to purify civilization so that its impurities don't infect the forests that they live in. Once the oath is sworn a lifetime of Ward begins. The Warden is then given a wooden mask that is completely unique to the Warden, along with a divine animal companion to accompany the Warden on his quest of eradication of evil in the world in order to maintain the balance between civilization and nature, however; this gift comes at the steep price of eternity in servitude to their deity. The Warden is also able to cast a wide variety of nature spells and afflicting the evil in the world that would seek to hurt not only civilization, but the benevolent creatures that inhabit forests as well, Wardens strike down evil regardless of where it lurks, and together with their divine animal companion, they are nearly are relentless in their pursuits.

Role: Wardens serve as beacons for their allies within the chaos of battle, and cherish their highly trained divine animal companions as family. As a team, the Warden and his divine animal companion can track, hunt, and destroy evil with incredible speed, making them excellent scouts, explorers, and deadly enemies of all those that would corrupt the balance that the Wardens are sworn to protect and uphold.

Alignment: Any Good
Hit Die: d10
Parent Classes: Druid and Paladin.
Starting Wealth: 4d6 × 10 gp (average 140 gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

Class Skills
The hunter's class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

All Saving Throws and BAB are to be taken from the Paladin Advancement Grid.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Warden.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Wardens are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, (but usually stray from using weapons that are mainly made of any steel or man made alloys) and light, medium, and heavy armor, but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. A Warden may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel.

Detect Evil (Sp)
At will, a Warden can use detect evil, as the spell. A Warden can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the Warden does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.

Spell Casting
A Warden casts divine spells drawn from the druid and paladin spell lists. Only druid spells of 6th level and lower and Paladin spells are considered to be part of the Warden spell list. If a spell appears on both the druid and Paladin spell lists, the Warden uses the lower of the two spell levels listed for the spell. The Warden can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a Warden must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a hunter's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the Warden's Wisdom modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Warden can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Hunter. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

A Warden's selection of spells is extremely limited. A Warden begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of his choice. At each new Warden level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Hunter Spells Known. In addition to the spells gained by wardens as they gain levels, each warden also automatically adds all summon nature's ally spells to her list of spells known. These spells are added as soon as the hunter is capable of casting them.

At 5th level and at every 3 levels thereafter, a Warden can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the Warden loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A Warden may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level. He cannot swap any summon nature's ally spells.
Unlike a druid or paladin, a hunter need not prepare her spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level.

Orisons
Wardens learn a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Hunter Spells Known. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.

Nature Training
A Warden counts his total Warden level as both druid levels and paladin levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, traits, and options that modify or improve an animal companion.

Nature Sense
A Warden gains +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature), and survival checks.

Afflict Evil (Su)
Once per day, a Warden can call out to the powers of good to aid him in him struggle against evil. As a swift action, the Warden chooses one target within sight to Afflict. If this target is evil, the Warden adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his attack rolls and adds his Warden level to all damage rolls made against the target of his Afflict Evil. If the target of Afflict Evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the warden possesses. Regardless of the target, Afflict Evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while afflict evil is in effect, the warden gains a deflection bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier (if any) to his AC against attacks made by the target of the Afflict. If the Warden targets a creature that is not evil, the Afflict is wasted with no effect.
The Afflict Evil effect remains until the target of the Afflict is dead or the next time the Warden rests and regains his uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the Warden may Afflict Evil one additional time per day.

Divine Animal Companion (Ex)
At 1st level, a Warden forms a bond with an animal companion that is given to him by his God as a partner in maintaining the balance of civilization and nature by destroying the evil that would destroy either part of the world. A Warden may begin play with any of the animals available to a druid (or others but be sure to consult your GM first). This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the Warden on his adventures. This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the nature bond class feature). The Warden's effective druid level is equal to his Warden level. A Warden's Divine Animal Companion is unusually intelliegent and always begins with at least 6 intelligence.If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, his effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the companion's statistics and abilities. If a Warden releases his companion from service or his animal companion perishes, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives. While the Warden's divine animal companion is dead he takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

Once per day, as a full-round action, a Warden may magically call his divine animal companion to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the Warden's level. The divine animal companion immediately appears adjacent to the Warden. A Warden can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.

At 11th level, the mount gains the celestial creature simple template and becomes a magical beast for the purposes of determining which spells affect it.

At 15th level, a Warden's Divine Animal Companion gains spell resistance equal to the Warden's level + 11.

Divine Wisdom (Su)
At 2nd level, a Warden gains a bonus equal to his Wisdom bonus (if any) on all Saving Throws.

Touch Of Divinity
Beginning at 2nd level, a Warden can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Each day he can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 his Warden level plus his Wisdom modifier. With one use of this ability, a Warden can heal 1d6 hit points of damage for every two Warden levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the Warden targets himself, in which case it is a swift action. A Warden only needs one free hand to use this ability.
Alternatively, a Warden can use this healing power to deal damage to undead or evil creatures, dealing 1d6 points of damage for every two levels the Warden possesses. Using Touch Of Divinity in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Undead and evil-aligned foes do not receive a saving throw against this damage.

Track
At 2nd level, a Warden adds 1/2 his level to Survival skill checks made to follow tracks.

Blessings (Su)
At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a Warden can select one Blessing to augment his Touch of Divinity. Each Blessing adds an effect to the Warden's lay on hands ability. Whenever the Warden uses Touch of Divinity to heal damage to one target, the target also receives the additional effects from all of the blessings possessed by the Warden. A blessing can remove a condition caused by a curse, disease, or poison without curing the affliction. Such conditions return after 1 hour unless the mercy actually removes the affliction that causes the condition.
At 3rd level, the Warden can select from the following initial Blessings.

Fatigued: The target is no longer fatigued.
Shaken: The target is no longer shaken.
Sickened: The target is no longer sickened.
At 6th level, a Warden adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.
Dazed: The target is no longer dazed.
Diseased: The Warden's Touch of Divinity ability also acts as remove disease, using the Warden's level as the caster level.
Staggered: The target is no longer staggered, unless the target is at exactly 0 hit points.
At 9th level, a Warden adds the following Blessings to the list of those that can be selected.
Cursed: The Warden's Touch of Divinity 3also acts as remove curse, using the Warden's level as the caster level.
Exhausted: The target is no longer exhausted. The Wardens must have the fatigue blessing before selecting this blessing.
Frightened: The target is no longer frightened. The Warden must have the shaken blessing before selecting this blessing.
Nauseated: The target is no longer nauseated. The Warden must have the sickened blessing before selecting this blessing.
Poisoned: The Warden's Touch of Divinity ability also acts as neutralize poison, using the Warden's level as the caster level.

At 12th level, a Warden adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.
Blinded: The target is no longer blinded.
Deafened: The target is no longer deafened.
Paralyzed: The target is no longer paralyzed.
Stunned: The target is no longer stunned.
These abilities are cumulative. For example, a 12th-level Warden's Touch of Divinity ability heals 6d6 points of damage and might also cure Fatigued and Exhausted conditions as well as removing diseases and neutralizing poisons. Once a condition or spell effect is chosen, it can't be changed.

As Tough As A Tree
At 3rd level, a Warden is immune to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases, including mummy rot.

Trackless Step
Starting at 3rd level, a Warden leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Woodland Stride (Ex)
Starting at 4th level, a Warden may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect him as normal.

Bonus Tricks (Ex)
At 7th level and every 6 levels thereafter, a Warden's animal companion learns a bonus trick (in addition to the bonus tricks gained from the Warden's effective druid level).

Swift Tracker (Ex)
At 8th level, a Warden can move at his normal speed while using Survival to follow tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Shared Affliction (Su)
At 11th level, a Paladin can expend two uses of his afflict evil ability to grant the ability to afflict evil to all allies within 10 feet, using his bonuses. Allies must use this afflict evil ability by the start of the warden's next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. Using this ability is a free action. Evil creatures gain no benefit from this ability.

Divine Communication
At 11th level, a Warden and his divine animal companion can communicate verbally, as if they were using a common language. Other creatures cannot understand the communication without magical aid.
Greater Divine Communication (Su)
At 14th level, the range of the Warden's Divine Communication with his divine animal companion increases to 10 miles. If the divine animal companion is within 1 mile, the Warden can communicate with it telepathically.

One with the Wild (Ex)
At 17th level, the Warden and his animal companion are respected or even feared by other animals. No animal willingly attacks the Warden or his companion unless magically compelled to or if the hunter or companion attacks it first.
The hunter and her companion can attempt to demoralize animals in the appropriate category as a swift action, rolling 1d20 and adding the Warden's level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Intimidate check result.

White Warden (Ex)
At 20th level, a Warden becomes a White Warden. His eyes turn entirely white and he gains darkvision of 60 feet (120 if he already possesses dark vision) without the setbacks of light sensitivity of any sort. He is then able to track down foes with ease. He can always move at full speed while using Survival to follow tracks without penalty. Additionally, the Warden becomes a conduit for the power of his god. He gains Damage Resistance of 10/evil. Whenever he uses afflict evil and successfully strikes an evil outsider, the outsider is also subject to banishment, using his warden level as the caster level (his weapon and holy symbol automatically count as objects that the subject hates). After the banishment effect and the damage from the attack is resolved, the afflict immediately ends. In addition, whenever he uses Touch of Divinity to heal a creature, he heals the maximum possible amount. Once the Warden becomes a White Warden, he no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged and is considered an immortal, however; he can still be killed as normal, but cannot die from normal causes due to old age.

Warden's Oath
A warden must be of the good alignment and begins to lose all class features except proficiencies if he ever willingly turns from the side of evil (at the pace your GM sees fit). If a Warden destroys nature willingly than he immediately loses all of his class features (except proficiencies) until he redeems himself in the eyes of his deity.

Additionally, a Warden's Code requires that he respect nature, help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents and nature.
Associates: While he may adventure with good or neutral allies, a warden avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who needlessly wastes the resources that nature provides beyong need or purpose. Under exceptional circumstances, a Warden can ally with evil associates, but only long enough to learn of their plans and who they answer to before destroying them and using what they've learned to destroy a greater evil. A Warden should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should he feel it is doing more harm than good. A Warden may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are good.

Ex-Wardens
A Warden who ceases to be good, who willfully destroys nature, or deviates from their deities code of conduct loses all Warden spells and class features (including the service of the divine animal companion, but not weapon and armor proficiencies). He may not progress any further in levels as a Warden. He regains his abilities and advancement potential if he atones for his violations (see atonement), as appropriate.


Why didn't they just give it smite and paladin auras while they were at it? This class is way too heavily loaded with class features. Really good class features at that. I would not allow this without heavy modifications. Mostly nerfs.

I assume the spell casting progresses like the bard list?


"Feel or power" should've sent up red flags. The feel of a class is easily changed without changing the mechanics(or at least mostly not changing them) but a paladin not having power is not something I can wrap my head around.


NO. Tell him to play a warpriest. That similar enough to what he wants, if he's play a Samasaran (not optimal overall for this sort of build) he can get spells from the druid spell list onto his.

The suggested class is completely overpowered. Don't allow it.


Green Smashomancer wrote:
Why didn't they just give it smite and paladin auras while they were at it?

Afflict Evil is Wis-based Smite.

I would not allow this.

Thematically it's boring. It's a nature Paladin, except it gets to use better stats. That's... not interesting. The ACG classes drew heavily from their parents, but they are not copies of their parent classes by any means. This is "Paladin, but with renamed abilities and better spells!"

Mechanically, a Paladin but with better spells, a better core stat, and Divine Bond at level one is not balanced.


kestral287 wrote:
Green Smashomancer wrote:
Why didn't they just give it smite and paladin auras while they were at it?

Afflict Evil is Wis-based Smite.

I would not allow this.

Oh wow, you're right. Yeah, just tell him to deal with being a warpriest. And the rest of what the hovering cousin to the falcon said. This is Paladin+, and the paladin could use a few things. "Mo' powah" isn't one of them.


After browsing the writeup, i have come to the conclusion your player is simply trying to Gestalt a Druid/Paladin with the only real loss being downgrading to level 6 spells and removal of Wild Shape and Auras while casting spontaneous like a Hunter.

I'd not be comfortable allowing this as is.


Yeah its super OP.. Surprised nobody said anything about the WIS bonus to all saves yet. I told him to just play a Sacred Huntsmaster instead.


Well the creation combined the paladins Cha stat into the Druids Wis stat to be less MAD(Tho i should have mentioned that detail.) You are correct tho, using Wis as the primary is basically a double whammy on the Will Save boost.


Eigengrau wrote:
Yeah its super OP.. Surprised nobody said anything about the WIS bonus to all saves yet. I told him to just play a Sacred Huntsmaster instead.

I lumped that into "better core stat". Though with the FAQ on the subject, he technically wouldn't get to boost his Will with double-Wis. Money is he corrects that if it's pointed out to him though.

Wis to X is inherently better than Cha to X, unless you're an Oracle or operating at very high levels. Not-Divine-Protection negates the biggest value of Cha as a core stat anyway. You can't get Wis-to-initiative easily but that's... basically it. In exchange you get it for better skills.


Green Smashomancer wrote:

Why didn't they just give it smite and paladin auras while they were at it? This class is way too heavily loaded with class features. Really good class features at that. I would not allow this without heavy modifications. Mostly nerfs.

I assume the spell casting progresses like the bard list?

I'm kinda scared to see the spellcasting progression and number of spells known per level.


So, I'm currently running a Paizo Adventure giving a break to the normal GM. Our adventure is coming to a close shortly and I just recently found out the other night that the player who made this "class" I mentioned above isn't going to play in our group until his Brother the normal GM takes over. Since his brother always accommodates the other's desires, instead of arguing/explaining balance/rules to him, his brother will let him play his "Warden Class".

The problems with this player has been numerous and he really doesn't even bother to read the basic core rules and mechanics. That alone is frustrating. The other 2-3 players, plus myself have to suffer his shenanigans. Before anyone says it, "There is no other group", and the gaming evening is really the only way schedule permits for most of us to hang out together for anything, barring taking vacation days etc...

Other things I've never been able to get him to comprehend, but I've been able to stop when I was a GM:

1. At level 2 he made a Dhamphir gunslinger/ranger with a modern day revolver carbine, that had poisoned pitted bullets in the Rise of the Runelords AP.

2. He played a Lycanthrope werefox and steam rolled/tried to control the social encounters and story arcs of the campaign.

3. Tried to get us to turn our campaign into a "Spartacus" (didn't actually use that name but it was blatantly obvious it mirrored the TV series Spartacus) theme, where against our wishes he broke out a bunch of gladiator slaves and had us hunted by the laws of the land. He also wanted to set up a "Civilization" for them by letting them have an abandoned castle we had cleared out of undead previously.

4. Changed characters at least 4 times and each time tried to become party leader of sorts but we never wanted one or a party face.

5. Tried to be a Dragon-rider character class

6. Tried to become an undead homebrewed class modeled after the WoW Death Knight. that was a nice argument

7. Tried to become an Knight of Sepulcher Anti-Paladin.

8. Tried to become another Lycanthrope Were-Dire Wolf/Barbarian that was another argument.

9. Tried to make a Paladin with a Divine bond Dog companion, western style Cowboy action character with 2 modern day revolvers.

I don't even know if I'm looking for suggestions or just venting off steam right now.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Would you allow this in a normal Paizo / no 3rd party or Gestalt group? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules