I did throw cash into the Shadowrun Returns and Wasteland 2 Kickstarters, but as much as I want this game to be my MMO rest home I'm dubious about throwing kickstarter funds into a game that will have a cash shop and open PvP. Unless there are guarantees from Ryan the cash shop will be only cosmetic, and the Kickstarter can make that happen (avoiding an ugly investor relationship).
If I'm to be paying $15/m for a "sub", I don't want to also buy modules that give me good gear for completion, and (training speed boost) items, and "healing potions", etc.
So, I'll happily drop money in a Kickstarter, if the detailed plans for the cash shop are released and there is some commitment to *what is acceptable* for inclusion within it. I'll also pimp it on my site, on Slashdot, and everywhere else I frequent.
Goblin Squad Member
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If I'm to be paying $15/m for a "sub", I don't want to also buy modules that give me good gear for completion, and (training speed boost) items, and "healing potions", etc.
Marou, the subscription model pays for training time, according to the blog. If you decide to pay the monthly fee, you won't have to buy anything from the money store. Also you can buy these upgrade times from people who buy them from the store with game money, so even if you choose the free option, you won't *need* to spend real money in the store.
Marou, the subscription model pays for training time, according to the blog. If you decide to pay the monthly fee, you won't have to buy anything from the money store. Also you can buy these upgrade times from people who buy them from the store with game money, so even if you choose the free option, you won't *need* to spend real money in the store.If I'm to be paying $15/m for a "sub", I don't want to also buy modules that give me good gear for completion, and (training speed boost) items, and "healing potions", etc.
That may be the case, I wouldn't fund it anyways. While that sounds fine in theory I've played a jillion f2p games, that's not how it works out. A single $0.50 item from cash shop ends up costing a day+ worth of coin farming from an advanced character.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From the blogs, I didn't get the feeling that you could buy items, with comments like "player created items should be king" and all.... shrug
They have stated they have no intent to add powerful items in the cash shop, as well as confirmed there are no plans for training speedups etc... Per current plans training is 100% or 0% if you aren't playing.
That being said they haven't anounced what the intended rewards of modules are, and making goods crafted does not eliminate that possibility (IE a weapon could be crafted, and among the ingredients needed one could be a rare diamond only available in a $200 module).
Now I will say assuming they are going to do something like that is a high level of conspiracy theorist, and just pointing out they haven't 100% confirmed they aren't doing a shop like this, should be filed in the same category as "they haven't confirmed the hell knights won't all be awakened badgers". For the most part GW seems like they don't intend to fall into the same traps as most F2P MMOs that alienate their audiences almost immediately.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The store is there to help people who wont play enough to pay a subscription to be able to cherry pick the things they want to play with their friends.
For example, of a group of four players, three pay a sub and one plays 'free to play'. One weekend they decide to attack the newest module, 'Attack of the Awakened Badger Hellknights'. Three of the players get the module as part of their subscription but the fourth has to purchase it from the store.
However, subscribers will still be able to purchase 'training time tickets' in order to sell them on the open market, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually it does not sound to me like all modules are automatically granted with a subscriptionThe store is there to help people who wont play enough to pay a subscription to be able to cherry pick the things they want to play with their friends.
For example, of a group of four players, three pay a sub and one plays 'free to play'. One weekend they decide to attack the newest module, 'Attack of the Awakened Badger Hellknights'. Three of the players get the module as part of their subscription but the fourth has to purchase it from the store.
However, subscribers will still be able to purchase 'training time tickets' in order to sell them on the open market, etc.
Some of these modules will likely be available to everyone for free. Others may be obtained via the use of in-game microtransaction currency.
Microtransactions are usually not used to reffer to things that are subscriber benefits, but to refer to things that are on top of subscriptions. That being said I believe that the best solution for modules in all parts, is for them to be more or less purely unconnected to the sandbox content, IE little to no direct reward short of maybe faction reputation, and if players can make them, serve as trials for entery and training for members for chartered companies, if companies can sort of register as their own factions with their own choice of reputation, then companeis could have reputation that is granted through player created modules (all benefits granted to the player who completes a module being at the expense of the creator)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect that the majority of the modules will be available through the sub or else it lessens the value of said subscription. What you'll get then is someone figuring out which modules offer the best bang for your buck and those will be the only ones that get bought, reducing overall revenue for Goblinworks/Paizo. Far better for the greater majority of modules to be available through the sub as that then increases the likelihood of a 'f2p' player buying more modules so they can play them with their subbed friends.
I suspect that the majority of the modules will be available through the sub or else it lessens the value of said subscription. What you'll get then is someone figuring out which modules offer the best bang for your buck and those will be the only ones that get bought, reducing overall revenue for Goblinworks/Paizo. Far better for the greater majority of modules to be available through the sub as that then increases the likelihood of a 'f2p' player buying more modules so they can play them with their subbed friends.
It seems unlikely anyone outside of a free training period would play "f2p" since they essentially can't earn any XP while being F2P. So, outside of modules designed for *level 1* who would the market be for buying modules, if not the people that already bought *training time* for the month?
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I use the term 'f2p' I use it to signify those people who don't pay a sub. They don't need to buy training for that month but they might want to purchase a module to play with friends.
I suspect everything we get as part of a sub will be available individually for purchase through the store for those people who can't justify paying a monthly sub.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect that the majority of the modules will be available through the sub...
I don't think that's the plan.
From Money Changes Everything:
You'll use Skymetal Bits to purchase... Theme park adventure content: In–game modules that you can unlock for yourself and your friends
There has been a lot of discussion in the forums about what GW will likely have to do to avoid the problems you describe, but I don't recall any official posts addressing those problems directly.
It seems unlikely anyone outside of a free training period would play "f2p" since they essentially can't earn any XP while being F2P.
Not quite accurate. F2P players will be able to purchase Skill Training Packages with in-game coin. That will make it possible for them to train their character's skills without having to have a subscription.
I thought this game already had funding from Paizo.
I'm sure Ryan and Lisa and many others at both companies have put their own personal wealth on the line to make this game, but it's almost certain they would not come close to being able to fully fund it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Like I said, I've no doubt some modules will be purchased but making them all 'pay to play' will actually hinder their sales as players will avoid purchasing modules seen as sub-par for their value which will result in players only purchasing those modules with the best value to cost ratio.
By making a large number of those modules available through subscription, you reward their dedication and push the 'f2p' crowd towards purchasing those modules to play with subbed friends. Win-win all round.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now I will say assuming they are going to do something like that is a high level of conspiracy theorist, and just pointing out they haven't 100% confirmed they aren't doing a shop like this, should be filed in the same category as "they haven't confirmed the hell knights won't all be awakened badgers". For the most part GW seems like they don't intend to fall into the same traps as most F2P MMOs that alienate their audiences almost immediately.
You are a bit off base when you say he's acting like a high level conspiracy theorist.
We've been waiting years and years for a game to deliver on the promises of this game. It hasn't come yet. On one hand we have major developers that don't make the promises we have been given by GW, and deliver the same old re-packaged WoW every time. On the other hand we have small independent games like Wurm, Xsyon, Mortal, and Darkfall that make high promises but don't have the resources to develop what we really want. And those are the ones that actually saw a release! That is what makes me hopeful about this game.
1. It is actually talking about things a lot want to see in an MMO, and laying out details on how they plan to implement them.
2. It isn't backed by a basement run company. These are experienced developers backed by a major name, Pathfinder.
For those reasons I expect great things from this game, but to believe a company won't actually deliver on their promises isn't high conspiracy. It's driven by what we have experienced in reality.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The link self-destructed. Oh well.
Goblin Squad here I come!
Mad Brew Labs has the Kickstarter video and excerpts from the initial link if anyone is still interested in look at the details about the premature announcement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Like I said, I've no doubt some modules will be purchased but making them all 'pay to play' will actually hinder their sales as players will avoid purchasing modules seen as sub-par for their value which will result in players only purchasing those modules with the best value to cost ratio.
By making a large number of those modules available through subscription, you reward their dedication and push the 'f2p' crowd towards purchasing those modules to play with subbed friends. Win-win all round.
All the more reason that the issue can more or less completely be resolved by eliminating major rewards to the modules. Make the modules portals to play in other areas, other themes, other flavors that PFO natively would not support. The majority of modules will likely be free, but there may be a few exceptions, say a pirate themed module, a much heavier puzzle based ones, horror ones etc...
If the main reason for buying modules is for them to be their own fun event, rather than they contain the uber item needed to craft the ultimate weapon. Then there is no "better" modules for anyone as everyones tastes are different.
DDO ran into the problem you describe, because the premium modules definently had distinctly better items, than the free modules and some of the most fun and unique ones didn't. To be honest my favorate premium module in DDO was smugglers rest, unfortunately it was nearly imposible to find groups for, mainly because few people purchased it, due to the loot being pathetic compared to many of the similar leveled modules.
Again this problem is solved, when you don't make premium modules the best destination for premium loot.
I crossposted this to my little place on the web. Where me and a few hundred jaded old ex-DAoC/UO players have been lingering for years.
http://mmo.catacombs.com
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If this is legit, I don't understand why they're using Kickstarter and just don't submit a business plan to a bank and get a loan? I seriously doubt the MMRPG will go anywhere at this point. They haven't hired any coders yet and it could take months to get the bugs worked out of the code, once the game is in some beta format which might be 2017 at this point?
Mike
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Goblin Squad Member
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If this is legit, I don't understand why they're using Kickstarter and just don't submit a business plan to a bank and get a loan? I seriously doubt the MMRPG will go anywhere at this point. They haven't hired any coders yet and it could take months to get the bugs worked out of the code, once the game is in some beta format which might be 2017 at this point?
Mike
They explain on their kickstarter the reasons why they are doing this. From my understanding it is to gauge the amount of interest in the game. The funding on the other hand will help with the tech demo and that will allow them to find more investors.
