A friend of mine is starting up a new Pathfinder group, and will be running a campaign here in the next few weeks. Given the story and parameters that he's set, the race I'm leaning towards is a goblin, more for role playing purposes than function.
That being said, I've been looking at the Magus class a whole lot. I've seen the Dervish Scimitar Magus in action, and it's pretty amazing, but I'm curious about the other archetypes. My research on sites shows that the staff magus is pretty decent, but I've had no real success on finding any good build ideas for one.
Have any of you built a capable staff magus, and if so, what direction did you take it?
My character idea is more aligned for a melee caster hybrid class, so if someone can recommend another good build for a goblin I'd appreciate that, too. If I can, I'd really like to make the Magus, work, however.
That being said, I've been looking at the Magus class a whole lot. I've seen the Dervish Scimitar Magus in action, and it's pretty amazing, but I'm curious about the other archetypes. My research on sites shows that the staff magus is pretty decent, but I've had no real success on finding any good build ideas for one.
You can't find any good builds because there aren't any. It's a crappy archetype. Magus basically does three things well:
1) Crit fishing (because it is the only way in the game to crit with a spell on a 15 (keen or improved crit 18-20/x2 weapon), i.e., the standard Magus build
2) Delivering what are otherwise touch spells at reach (using a whip), which, I think is still kind of crappy, but, viable.
3) Debuff stacking, which requires a very specific set up such that you drop the maximum number of conditions on your enemy every round. If you are into this, look for threads/guides on the "Defiler" build.
Contributor
|
Oh, I know about Kensai Crit magi - I'm playing alongside one in another campaign. My question was more: is staff magus bad in a vacuum, or only by comparison to the usual magus builds?
Also, I hate Kapenia Dancer for being unfinished as an archetype. It tears out a bunch of stuff and doesn't bother to replace it. >:(
Oh, I know about Kensai Crit magi - I'm playing alongside one in another campaign. My question was more: is staff magus bad in a vacuum, or only by comparison to the usual magus builds?
Nothing is good or bad in a vacuum. Compared to, say, any character with less than 6 levels of spells, yeah, a staff magus is still potentially better because spells > everything that isn't spells. Compared to just about any normal 6 or 9 level spellcaster, though? No, staff magus will suffer in comparison.
You have to realize, though, that Magus is already a relatively weak class (it's probably the worst 6 level caster, honestly) without using very specific tricks to elevate them up to the rest of their tier. Specifically, you need to crit fish or debuff stack to match stuff like Bard, Hunter, Inquisitor, Warpriest, etc.
Also note that while I enjoy Kensai more than normal magi, they are also strictly worse. The very best archetype choices are hexcrafter and "no archetype."
Well I must say I find this a little disappointing. I was hoping someone out there had found a really strong build for the archetype. I think the Magus is a cool class in what it can do, and the Dervish Scimitar Magus, though slow starting, really procs by third level and becomes pretty amazing. I'd like to play another magus build that is effective, but I'd like to do something different.
All that being said, I would still like to have a good melee caster type for the campaign, but I'm not really sure about what else I could do. The -2 Str and Cha hinders them a bit with classes like Bloodrager, Bard and Skald. I would prefer him to be intelligent anyway. I see him a little like the intelligent gremlin from Gremlins 2. He's crazy like others of his kind, but smart enough to be different. Functionally, I see this played out with him having to study and prepare spells ahead of time as opposed to just casting.
Can someone suggest another good melee casting class idea that might fit this mold?
Warpriest is basically the counterpart to the Magus. Magi cast mostly attack and control spells while making full attacks. Warpriests cast self buffs and heals while making full attacks.
And Magus is still a good choice, just go more defiler than crit fisher.
|
Contributor
|
I missed the goblin part. :)
Potential roleplaying concern, if you're playing a standard Pathfinder goblin - do note that the magus uses a spellbook (which will steal the words from your head). Just a thought.
I'd also go over the magus spell list and check out some of the more esoteric spells - they can do a lot more than shocking grasp. The magus in my group busts out weird spells all the time, and you'd be surprised how well it works out. :)
Look up Ravindorks character Kang-Makhai i Think his name is. He is a very strong staff magus. The build need a bit of GM love to get flying but that dosent seem to be a problem here?
I've spoken with my GM, and I have a few ideas to make him playable. I see a couple of different directions with him that I'd like to possibly go, so I'll throw out what I have and let you pick it apart. These are based on roll stats rather than point buy
Str Based Staff Magus
Str-15
Dex- 18
Con- 14
Int- 16
Wis- 10
Chat- 7
Character Feats from 1-7 would be: Roll with It, Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff), Intensify Spell, and Extra Arcane Pool.
I would probably mix him with the Hexcrafter archetype so he can debuff as well. I would probably focus his spells on things like Magic Missile, Color Spray, Grease and Vanish. Once he got a couple of levels in, I'd start utilizing more of the damage touch through weapon spells like Shocking grasp.
I spoke to my GM, however, and he stated that he would allow the use of Weapon Finesse with the quarterstaff since it's a weapon that is more skill based than force based. So with that in mind, here's the idea for a Dex build.
Dex based Staff Magus
Str 13
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 17
Wis 10
Cha 9
Feats from 1-7 would be Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Intensify Spell, and either Roll with it for damage mitigation (and it's funny to consider) or Extra Arcane Pool for more options in weapon buffing.
Spell layout would be similar, but I might trade one of the utility spells at first level for a touch attack one for weapon channeling.
Thoughts?
I would go blackblade kensai with a goblin. At level 3 it would be dex to damage and at 7 level as well. But this Can also work. If you Trade away spell recall there is no need for extra arcane pool.
Gotta +1 all that mpl said and save myself a long post.
I would probably mix him with the Hexcrafter archetype so he can debuff as well. I would probably focus his spells on things like Magic Missile, Color Spray, Grease and Vanish. Once he got a couple of levels in, I'd start utilizing more of the damage touch through weapon spells like Shocking grasp.
I spoke to my GM, however, and he stated that he would allow the use of Weapon Finesse with the quarterstaff since it's a weapon that is more skill based than force based. So with that in mind, here's the idea for a Dex build.
Dex based Staff Magus
Str 13
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 17
Wis 10
Cha 9Feats from 1-7 would be Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Intensify Spell, and either Roll with it for damage mitigation (and it's funny to consider) or Extra Arcane Pool for more options in weapon buffing.
Spell layout would be similar, but I might trade one of the utility spells at first level for a touch attack one for weapon channeling.
Thoughts?
I'll offer some thoughts. My advise most likely isn't the most optimized in the world, but then not every character has to be.
I run a Haxcrafter (sic) Staff Magus and greatly enjoy the flexibility the class provides. Between being able to debuff the enemies, deliver devastating melee spellstrikes (sans criticals, of course) and eventually taking 2 levels in Arcane Archer (yay, DM approved spell research for an arcane version of Bowstaff, I never find a situation that I am unable to contribute in.
Comments:
1) Roll with it is a great feat choice for a goblin. Make sure that you get the alternate racial trait for racial bonus to Acrobatics. Also, taking skill focus (Acrobatics) will be useful as you get in the mid levels (level 9+). Damage increases a bit faster than your acrobatics bonus. I have a level 7 bloodrager that is starting to get to the point where he needs to take that feat. DM managed to hit him for the ... 3rd time (?) with a melee attack. The other times it was a lucky critical and I rolled low. Roll With It, combined with Mirror Image on a goblin, is something that makes me grin as a player and cringe as a DM.
2) Dm allowed weapon finesse with quarterstaff? Nice. My character has straight 16's in Str, Dex, Cons and Int. (Int and Cha aren't much to speak of). Take advantage of that. You most likely will not need weapon focus for the quarterstaff unless you are taking feats that require it. I have no trouble hitting most things as it is and I don;t have a +5 in my attacking stat modifier. I'd recommend taking Power Attack in its place. It gives you a viable option for when you aren't spell striking (saving spells, go at it 2 handed). This goes doubly so if you take Accurate Strike magus arcana.
If you go hexcrafter, you do not have the option to recharge spellslots with arcane pools. Not casting every round is a good idea.
3) As a hexcrafter, you get the cantrip "Brand" on your list and use it during spellcombat to get an extra weapon attack in. I'd recommend getting Evil Eye as one of your hexes as it can be used multiple times and always lasts at least one round. Flight is always a good one too. There's a witch hex from the Heroes of the Jade oath called Fire Blossom, which is a scorching ray spell usable once per target. Goblins and fire go great together and gives really good ranged versatility.
I want to consider, for a moment, if I used a whip instead of a staff. Obviously I wouldn't be rolling with the staff magus archetype, but what might be some good build options for that?
I know a whip would give me some similar functionality. I'd have reach with it, but until my level is high enough to spend arcane points to put an actual enchant on it (fire, frost, etc), it will never deal any damage outside of what I channel through it.
With a staff, I can enchant one side, take TWF and chant both to use effectively as a double sided weapon, channel spells through it and utilize reach effects.
Using Spellstrike at level 2 with any melee weapon would let me make extra attacks, but even with a whip that wouldn't be that helpful. I'm just a loss on how a whip magus would be worth playing.
Being able to both trip your foes and spellstrike them as they go down, shouldn't be underestimated.
Yes, that's part of what the Defiler is built on, and why they take levels of White Haired Witch.