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This will consist of more than one question to avoid multiple FAQ's.
1. Can you jump while charging and still complete the charge?
2. If you can jump while charging, is there a point where you jump high enough to no longer be considered "moving in a straight line" and therefore end the charge, or make the charge not rules legal?
3. If there is a limit to how high you can jump, and still charge what is that limit?
To those of you reading this no matter what your opinion is I would like for you to press the FAQ button.
PS: I know the words "straight line" are not in the book, but that is basically what is implied.
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The feat Janni Rush seems to imply you can jump while charging, otherwise the feat would be worthless.
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I agree it should be an option.
I have even had a monster use this tactic, when I ran my first PFS game.
Trust me, it made sense, for the scenario.
I did, however, have at least one scoffing player. Then again, I got a few "That's not <redacted> runs it..." from him, as well.
There is always one.
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1) Since jumping is considered part of your movement, yes.
2) No, since you will either be long jumping to get over something (or someone), or high jumping to get up to your opponent, high enough doesn't matter.
3) Don't see a limit as long as you keep 2) in mind.
Actually the rules prevent you from not moving in a straight line while charging. If you jump high enough to enter the next vertical square then you are no longer charging.
You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.
Basically you have to be able to draw a line from your square to the opponent with anything being able to hinder you. If you have to jump that square is obviously occupied.
Now my question which I did not think to ask in the FAQ is can you jump over an enemy or ally if jumping is allowed and height does not matter. I see no reason why jumping over a creature should hinder you any more than jumping over a wall.
Just to be clear I am not saying that jumping to a height with it never being a factor should be possible. What I am saying is that if it is possible you should be able to jump creatures also.
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I have even had a monster use this tactic, when I ran my first PFS game.
** spoiler omitted **
I did, however, have at least one scoffing player.
Well, to be fair...
That, and most of the map is difficult terrain.
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I have even had a monster use this tactic, when I ran my first PFS game.
** spoiler omitted **
I did, however, have at least one scoffing player.
Well, to be fair...
** spoiler omitted **
1) Since jumping is considered part of your movement, yes.
2) No, since you will either be long jumping to get over something (or someone), or high jumping to get up to your opponent, high enough doesn't matter.
3) Don't see a limit as long as you keep 2) in mind.
Actually the rules prevent you from not moving in a straight line while charging. If you jump high enough to enter the next vertical square then you are no longer charging.
You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.Basically you have to be able to draw a line from your square to the opponent with anything being able to hinder you. If you have to jump that square is obviously occupied.
Now my question which I did not think to ask in the FAQ is can you jump over an enemy or ally if jumping is allowed and height does not matter. I see no reason why jumping over a creature should hinder you any more than jumping over a wall.
Just to be clear I am not saying that jumping to a height with it never being a factor should be possible. What I am saying is that if it is possible you should be able to jump creatures also.
You might want to quote the entire rules section. Your quote only says that the path from you to the target must be clear. It never excludes jumping or even outright taking a roundabout route to the target.
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.
If you don't have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can't charge that opponent.
You can't take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
Directly would mean no high jumps. Long jumps are more or less direct (because 5 ft square abstraction), but run afoul of the "must have a clear path, and nothing can hinder your movement" bit, although it is still arguable because something isn't really hindering you if you jump over it with no movement loss.
Anyway, FAQ'd.
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I own a collection (16, I think?) of these little 1 inch acrylic cubes. They're great for representing Invisible characters, young Gelatinous cubes, or as stands for PCs that are flying.
They've also really helped me visualize 3D combats and movement. I now think entirely in 3D, with every creature taking up its corresponding "cube" of space, rather that just a square.
If I lay out 6 cubes in a line, this could represent a character's charge lane.
If I had a charging character attempt an Acrobatics check to clear an obstacle, and it pushes them high enough to reach the next "cube" up, that would theoretically be one diagonal of movement up, yes?
So, would the corresponding diagonal of movement, down, count as moving 2?
Since, when moving, every other diagonal counts as 2?
I'm finding that a little silly (though maybe others don't).
I actually think, for purposes of charging and jumping together, that the line of cubes should be maintained and unbroken (6 cubes, 30ft.) and that any jumps along the way shouldn't adjust the line.
I'm envisioning Mario jumping in 2D now. Starts off running in a straight line, then jumps a block, then lands, but maintains the same speed during the entire course.
This method eschews the 3D approach I've grown so accustomed to using, but also simplifies jumping on a charge (which by a couple accounts seems to be within the understanding of the Designers).
Or maybe not, and I'm just experimenting with alternative modes of thought.
Opinions?
FAQd
1) Since jumping is considered part of your movement, yes.
2) No, since you will either be long jumping to get over something (or someone), or high jumping to get up to your opponent, high enough doesn't matter.
3) Don't see a limit as long as you keep 2) in mind.
Actually the rules prevent you from not moving in a straight line while charging. If you jump high enough to enter the next vertical square then you are no longer charging.
You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.Basically you have to be able to draw a line from your square to the opponent with anything being able to hinder you. If you have to jump that square is obviously occupied.
Now my question which I did not think to ask in the FAQ is can you jump over an enemy or ally if jumping is allowed and height does not matter. I see no reason why jumping over a creature should hinder you any more than jumping over a wall.
Just to be clear I am not saying that jumping to a height with it never being a factor should be possible. What I am saying is that if it is possible you should be able to jump creatures also.
You might want to quote the entire rules section. Your quote only says that the path from you to the target must be clear. It never excludes jumping or even outright taking a roundabout route to the target.
...You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is
The book also says you must draw a line from A to B, and if anything in the line would obstruct movement then you can't charge. It does not say if you can jump over it, that you can negate it. Now maybe the intent is to allow jumping, but rules dont give you that option. They only mention if ____ is in a certain square.
edit: You being able to jump over an obstacle does not make it "not an obstacle".
You can jump if you charge. You cannot jump over an obstacle during a charge because if there is an obstacle you can't declare a charge.
The way we started ruling in our area is "If you cannot fail the Acrobatics check to jump over an obstacle, it doesn't block your path."
If you have a net Acrobatics bonus of 16 after applying circumstance modifier, you can't fail to jump over any obstacle/gap/etc. that requires a DC 17 or less. So it seems reasonable that you could charge over any obstacle that would be a DC 17 or less Acrobatics check.
I agree it should be an option.
I have even had a monster use this tactic, when I ran my first PFS game.
Trust me, it made sense, for the scenario.
** spoiler omitted **
I did, however, have at least one scoffing player. Then again, I got a few "That's not <redacted> runs it..." from him, as well.
There is always one.
Look at the giant flea (bestiary 4):
"Uncanny Leap (Ex) As a full-round action, a giant flea can jump up to 120 feet. A flea can treat this jump as a charge, as long as the leap is made in a straight line."
I've pressed the FAQ button.
I've always allowed folks to jump while charging and occasionally felt disappointed when DMs wouldn't let my PCs jump over obstacles while charging. Now that I stop and think about it a little more I guess I wouldn't allow somebody to charge by flying around an obstacle though. For some reason leaping wildly seems very much like "charging" to me while veering around things doesn't. I can't explain it logically. I just hope whoever makes the official rulings feels the same way.
A weird situation will be if it turns out that you can officially jump during a charge so long as you're not jumping over an obstacle. I'm imagining somebody jumping 20 through the air with a flying kick but not being able to do that if a 5 foot wide mud puddle or an ottoman is in the way. Anyhow, if you can officially jump over stuff while charging I hope you can officially attempt to do so even if you might fail. Gwen Smith's rule kind of makes sense, but it might make you miss many wonderful moments where a Barbarian slams facefirst into an obstacle might be lost.
I still want to make a Witch, with a Giant Flea Familiar.
I just have not figured out to make the Flea talk.
5th level witch gets Speak with familiar.
7th level witch gets Speak with animals of its kind.Anthropomorphic Animal: "...gains the ability to speak one language you know..."
EDIT:
@Devilkiller:
Above and Beneath the Streets
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Use the guidelines in the Acrobatics skill (a horizontal jump's peak height is one-fourth of the horizontal distance) to determine whether a character can make a jump.
Jumping difficult terrain is different to jumping an obstacle. The terrain slows you, but the obstacle blocks you.
/cevah
I still want to make a Witch, with a Giant Flea Familiar.
I just have not figured out to make the Flea talk.
Make it a mauler archetype and buy a lance!
Decoy archetype allows it to speak any of its master’s languages.
It might be funny to put just a few ranks in a Perform skill and do a really bad ventriloquist act with the flea where you insist it is saying rude stuff about people. Maybe then you could ventriloquize the giant flea insisting that the rude comments are actually coming from a normal sized flea who is goofing on him.
If being a moron doesn't amuse you as much as it does me I guess that a Circlet of Speaking might arguably allow a familiar to speak depending on how strictly the DM defines the word "animal" in the item's description. A flea is a vermin, and a flea familiar would be a magical beast. I'd probably let it slide, but I guess I'm pretty lenient and like the idea of having animals (and perhaps vermin) insult people.
@Cevah - Per the RAW which Wraithstrike quoted you can't charge through squares which slow movement either. Anyhow, an ottoman is an actual obstacle.
@Cevah - Per the RAW which Wraithstrike quoted you can't charge through squares which slow movement either. Anyhow, an ottoman is an actual obstacle.
True, but if you jump over the terrain, it is not slowing you. Just like if you fly over it.
/cevah
If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.
That makes sense - and I still agree with Cevah, blacbloodtroll, and others who say that so long as you are capable of making the acrobatics roll to clear the obstacles, that they are not, in fact BLOCKING or SLOWING your movement.
Unlike Gwen Smith - I do not think this should be limited to those jumps you cannot fail. Rather if rolling a 20 will allow you to make the DC for the jump, then you should be able to attempt the charge. however- as soon as you fail even a single acrobatics check - your charge has been halted, you end your movement, and lose the rest of your turn. If you were jumping over a crevice, a river, or some other, negative space obstacle when you failed your check, you are now falling in to the obstacle. If you were trying to jump over difficult terrain, a chair, or some other positive space obstacle, you trip and fall prone in the square you were in just prior to missing the acrobatics check.
In any of these scenarios - the rules were followed. You either were able to move, unhindered, in a straight line and were therefore able to charge - OR - you tried to charge but were prevented from charging because of a barrier that blocked or slowed movement.
But in either case, you were allowed within the rules to try.