A Returning weapon isn't even close to the same thing, though—you're stuck without a shield for a whole turn. Shield Champion gets to catch the shield and defend it right after it's thrown, as well as the really important-to-what-Cap-does ranged disarm and trip attempts with the shield, and can even bounce it off walls and around corners. And brawlers are more focused martial artists than monks, anyway, and even a Shield Champion fights better unarmed than a standard monk, with the same amount of acrobatics and no need to shoehorn "years of controlled, penitent monastic meditation" into Cap's backstory.
If you want full regeneration, getting racial Regen drastically throws off the balance of the Race Builder (if you look at what it's similar to, Regeneration 1 is actually closer to around 20-30 RP, it's a really big deal). There's an Ioun Stone (Pearly White Spindle) that grants (slow) regeneration (implant it!); pair that with racial Fast Healing, and without having to create new rules you've got both fast healing and the ability to eventually grow back limbs—in essence, it's a Golarion implementation of Wolverine tailored to the appropriate power level to not just be a god.
hmm... with the racebuilder, I've got a good base for Nightcrawler. Though if we're not 6th level then I can't get dimensional dervish as a feat yet.
Meh, he just has to be ageless, which is fluff anyway, and then I can grab fast healing at the cost of 6k.
At some later point, a cracked ioun stone looks tasty. Regeneration is regeneration is regeneration, so he'd still be just as immortal from regeneration 1/hour as regeneration 10 or whatever would make him.
If you do go the warder route on CA, you'll have an instantly returning shield, and golden lion can provide combat leadership abilities, which are really appropriate for him.
But I'm sure Shield Champion does it well too.
Anyway, I statted wolverine up as a barbarian//stalker.
Currently, he's the pre-implant version. Getting his claws out hurt, so he sometimes use daggers instead. Stalker works really well to model feral combat and out of combat abilities.
At some point I'll get him some dermal plating and implanted weaponry for the adamantine bones and claws.
Do you allow the playtest material from Path of War Expanded? It is close to being done and supposed to go up on the d20pfsrd site in a few weeks. Anyway, my idea was/is the merciful swordsman, in some way.
In the Expanded playtest they introduced class templates, which are kind of like archetypes, one of these is the Bushi.
So my idea is this, if allowed: Bushi Warlord ||| Advanced Human Template (1 lvl equiv) / Enlightened Paladin
Oh, advanced, shiny. If it's allowed, I'd love to pick that one up as well.
Anyway, now that you mention it, I picked up the Prodigous Two-weapon Fighting Feat from the Path of War Expanded playtest - I forgot it was from there. It allows meeting two-weapon fighting prerequisites with strength instead of dexterity. It's a feat tax, but a pretty neat one.
Would I be allowed to take it?
It is publically available, but the only place I personally know has all the links is the GiantITP forums, is it ok to link that here?
And regarding my character, well, I meant the general trope more than any specific character. We are making custom characters, are we not? If we aren't theeeen I missed a major part about this thread >.<
He is intended to be the skilled swordsman that decided to cut out the infection in the world. But, much like many other heroes, he goes out of his way not to kill people. This would mechanically be gestalted by a katana (with the merciful magic weapon property) wielding initiator.
Aha, then I'll go dig up the proper character for this, if not I think I may or may not have to bow out...
I've been toying with a build for Quicksilver, but it's hard to get him up to any appreciable approximation of his actual speed. The best I've been able to do so far is a Monk/Fighter, using RP to give him a speed bonus and Haste as a spell-like ability. This only puts him at a speed of 80ft, 110ft with Haste, or about 62.5mph.
I think in the post above you were talking about having to buy extra RP at 1,000gp each? This would change things as it would take all his starting gold to gain the extra abilities.
@Rick,
Would you allow dimensional dervish for Nightcrawler, even though he technically doesn't qualify?
@Anoirtrou
If you make him Half-Elf and Brawler/Monk instead of Fighter/Monk he would be eligible for the Elf Alternate Favored Class Bonus that increases your base movement speed by 5 ft./5 levels you take it. Both the Brawler and the Monk have it so you're looking at an additional +40 base speed at lvl 20.
Even before 5 it allows you to do a "teleport spring attack". And I'm considering monk for the movement and defensive abilities. Nightcrawler isn't tough, but he is hard to hit.
Okay. I'll hold on until 6th (unless you start us there)
At this point, we should probably just either cut the advanced template (and probably templates in general) - they're just stupidly better than class levels, I'd be very hard pressed to find a character that wouldn't be better off with a level of template on one side than a level of
If everyone does it, there's no net power gain, yeah? If everyone refrains from taking it, there's no net power loss, and we get to have a level of interesting class abilities instead of +2 to everything.
@bedlam, as best I can figure, the gm makes each RP cost 1000gp, and has banned the stat boost options.
I have a few questions; this being a golarionized marvel world, we should be keeping to the core character concepts and personality traits but we are free to otherwise act and build within it? Because of so I might go with a japanese influenced Swordsman ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordsman_%28comics%29 ) from after his redemption.
Or I might go with Kitty Pryde, she's also pretty cool.
Here's the link to where the PoW Expanded stuff is: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?411495-Dreamscarred-Press-Pat h-of-War-Expanded!-(Discussion-Thread-IV)
Mechanics-wise I'd go with Bushi Template Warlord for both as the main side, focusing on the Mithral Current discipline of Iai-fighting, and then splashing some Solar Wind (fire based) or Elemental Flux (element energy based) for Swordsman and Veiled Moon (ethereal and ghost touch maneuvers) for Kitty.
Swordsman's second side would likely be Swashbuckler to start with, Kitty I have no idea about, actually.
Or, well, I might have an even better hero to use, but for that one to fit I really need to know how conceptually locked we are to the "standard" versions from 616-Earth.
Yeah, given another Recruitment I made a character for recently, I'm kind of sour on Templates myself. A lot of people waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay undervalue them as a power booster when taken next to someone without one.
For example if you're a Vampire you automatically have an extra like, 20 PB (at a conservative estimate), several free Feats, SLAs that for 7 levels in this game have a higher caster level than your character level, and a multitude of other things.
I think I'm going to go with Colossus as a Warder/Barbarian unless I think of a class that works better than one or the other for being super strong and invulnerable. I'll probably use some of the extra 10 RP we get to give him Ironskin as an SLA.
Though maybe Aegis would work better. They get almost as much DR as an Invulnerable Rager, and have the whole "Summoning the steel skin" thing going for them.
Though for Unarmed Combat to work in addition to the many, many DR Feats I'll need to get, I might have to go Fighter (Unbreakable?) just to satisfy those requirements.
Unless I'd be allowed to have the Barbarian DR and Aegis DR stack, which is doubtful I think.
Hmm. Path of War isn't broken in a self-consistency sense, but it is a little more powerful than standard core (especially the newer stuff), and the books are absolutely wracked with untyped bonuses that clean house in a gestalt game.
My main opinion on Shield Champion is that if the archetype is specifically created to be Captain America, might as well throw it a bone.
Rick, how close are you to finalizing build rules? I expect you might not be ready to post them until you open the real recruitment...but if you happen to have them sooner, you'll make a bunch of folks happy. ;-)
Path of War is only more powerful than core if you compare it to the non-magical classes like Fighter.
A Path of War character is more like an Alchemist or Inquisitor in base power, because that's how they were designed.
On the setting: What kind of fluff are we going for, exactly? Are we actually X superhero transported to Golarion, are we a Golarion analogue (i.e. somebody on Golarion with the same powers and general personality)? Or is this an Elseworlds kinda thing where we are the character but aren't at the same time?
Path of War is only more powerful than core if you compare it to the non-magical classes like Fighter.
A Path of War character is more like an Alchemist or Inquisitor in base power, because that's how they were designed.
Err, except that an intelligently-built Fighter is one of the most powerful core classes, and can wipe the floor with any Alchemist or Inquisitor I've ever seen. But Path of War introduces a lot of things like Deadly Agility that, while not game-breaking, certainly introduce a substantial tier of power creep.
Err, except that an intelligently-built Fighter is one of the most powerful core classes, and can wipe the floor with any Alchemist or Inquisitor I've ever seen. But Path of War introduces a lot of things like Deadly Agility that, while not game-breaking, certainly introduce a substantial tier of power creep.Path of War is only more powerful than core if you compare it to the non-magical classes like Fighter.
A Path of War character is more like an Alchemist or Inquisitor in base power, because that's how they were designed.
You have not seen any well built Alchemist or Inquisitor then.
Fighters are one of the worst classes in the game. This is pretty much an objective fact. Their attack and damage bonuses are matched or exceeded by most other classes, and their defenses are some of the worst in the game. I did a long mathematical analysis of a Fighter vs a Barbarian a while back. The Fighter beats him in damage only at 20th (because of his capstone), and loses in every other category.
A well built Alchemist or Inquisitor can match (or come close to matching) a Fighter's damage output, but have superior defenses, skills, and utility.
Likewise Path of War classes have some of the utility spells provide.
Deadly Agility is no more power creep than anything Paizo releases. It lets you spend 2 Feats to achieve something approaching the same level of damage as a man wielding a longsword in one hand.
I can run some mathematical analyses for Alchemist/Inquisitor if you're really interested, but I'd post that over on the main forums most likely or send it via PMs to avoid a further derail.
Err... that's because Barbarians and Inquisitors are meant to do sit there and deal damage, while Fighters are far better at utility (and they also make a much better several-level dip).
Deadly Agility lets you spend 2 Feats to achieve something that normally takes 4—and it lets you do far more damage than a man wielding a long sword in one hand.
I'm fine discussing this somewhere else—but Alchemists are only even good at damage if you add a few archetypes that are very, very hard to roleplay well, and which I'd argue pale in comparison to a dozen fighter archetypes.
Sent you a PM.
Sent you a PM.
Can you PM that to me as well? Just 'cause I'm curious. Thanks. :-)
I don't think I can get Colossus to work to my satisfaction so I think I'll do the invincible Iron Fist instead.
Something like a Soulknife (Deadly Fist) plus a Psychic Warrior, perhaps?
What would you combine with Soulknife to make Psylock?
What would you combine with Soulknife to make Psylock?
Hm.
I might forego Soulknife entirely, actually. Think about going Psychic Warrior, Mind Knight Path, and get those Feats from Ultimate Psionics that make Manifested weaponry better.
Then combine that with straight up Psion, Psychokinetic or Psychometabolism Disciplines for her other stuff.
The Gifted Blade and Deadly Fist archetypes stack together really nicely, getting you all the Psychic Warrior powers you probably care about on one side of the gestalt.
I'd also suggest Monk, since Iron Fist actually trained as a monk for years, and since it seriously increases unarmed damage, and gives you a flurry much better than the Deadly Blade would get (allowing you to dump those blade skills into extra powers and Focused Offense). If you go Qinggong monk or Martial Artist, you actually get some really nice powers from that side as well.
You know, I actually forgot that Deadly Fist gives an Enhancement straight to your Unarmed Strikes, not was technically a weapon in itself.
Though if I do go straight Monk, I might go MoMS. As his page quote on the Marvel wiki says:
"This is only one basic form. Every form has strengths and weaknesses. True martial arts aren't about one perfect style. It's the combination of styles that makes you perfect. Every riddle has an answer. Every lock has a key. Those kids I "waste" my time with, all they see are locked doors. I came back wanting to share the eastern ways. Not own them. My father and his business partner built an empire by exploiting the natural resources of Asia. No one wants to ask about the thousand of families they displaced. The temples and farms they destroyed. They just ask about the money. And it's the money that got my father killed--. "
Can I do the Unchained Monk, Rowles?
Well, given that, I have made a pretty good Nightcrawler. I'd have liked to add darkvision, shadow blending and expert climber, but without them it's still not bad.
Kurt Wagner
Vanara monk (kata master) 5/slayer 5/gestalt 5 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 53, 104)
LG Medium humanoid (vanara)
Hero Points 1
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +9
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Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 19, flat-footed 14 (+5 Dex, +4 Wis)
hp 44 (5d10+10)
Fort +6, Ref +9, Will +8
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune disease
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft., climb 30 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +11 (1d6+1/18-20) or
unarmed strike +10 (1d8+1) or
unarmed strike flurry of blows +13/+13/+8 (1d8+1)
Special Attacks flurry of blows, menacing swordplay, opportune parry and riposte, sneak attack +1d6, studied target +2 (2nd, move action)
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 12
Base Atk +5; CMB +12 (+14 grapple); CMD 25 (27 vs. grapple)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Deflect Arrows, Dimensional Agility[UC], Dimensional Assault[UC], Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse
Traits dangerously curious, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +15 (+24 to jump), Bluff +5, Climb +13, Diplomacy +4, Escape Artist +11, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +9, Sense Motive +10, Sleight of Hand +6, Stealth +15, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +10; Racial Modifiers derring-do
Languages Common, Custom Language
SQ fast movement, hero points, high jump, ki pool (5 points magic), maneuver training, panache, prehensile tail, slayer talents (fast stealth, finesse rogue), slow fall 20 ft., track +2
Other Gear mwk rapier, 160 gp
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Climbing (30 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Deed: Derring-Do (+5 extra dice) (Ex) Use 1 panache, +1d6 to Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check. On a 6, roll another die.
Deed: Menacing Swordplay (Ex) While 1 panache, as a swift action when hit, attempt demoralize check.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of (unless from a massive weapon).
Dimensional Agility May take any additional actions remaining after using dimension door or abundant step
Dimensional Assault May use dimension door or abundant step as part of a charge action
Dimension Door: At will
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Movement (+10 ft.) The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Fast Stealth (Ex) You may move at full speed while using the Stealth skill without penalty.
Flurry of Blows +8/+8/+3 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
High Jump (+5/+25 with Ki point) (Ex) +5 to Acrobatics checks made to jump.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Pool (5/day) (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Panache (Ex) Gain panache, use unarmed/monk wep with certain deeds, and can spend ki for deeds.
Prehensile Tail (Ex) Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Slow Fall 20 ft. (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Sneak Attack +1d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Studied Target +2 (move action, 2 at a time) (Ex) Study foe as a Move action, gain +2 to att/dam & some skills vs. them.
Track +2 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Hmm... Squirrel Girl is looking harder to fit into 5 levels than I thought. Fast Healing eats up quite a bit of RP/starting wealth, and claws might require a bit of shenanigans.
The harder part is figuring out how to summon/speak to squirrels, when SG has no magical powers whatsoever, just mutant ones. Summoner would work, but seems to Arcane. Hunter might be an option, but comes with a bunch of divine spells attached.
Would at-will Call Animal/Speak with Animals as an SLA be okay? Could I add "only applies to squirrels" to reduce the RP of said abilities from 2 RP each to 1 RP, since it's a pretty big reduction in utility? (Otherwise, I'd be starting with 500 gp if I went that route, or do something different—just figured I'd check)
It appears I was mistaken. On closer inspection, Deadly Fist does NOT give an enhancement to your Unarmed Strike directly. I'm fine with the dice capping at 1d6 though.
In that case, Psychic Warrior (Meditant) is back on the table. That, or maybe Stalker. Broken Blade and Thrashing Dragon would be quite nice.
@Philo: Why a Vanara instead of a Tiefling? Also, how did you swing Dimension Door at-will at 5th level?
I'm still noodling on Ms Marvel (the new Kamala Harris version). She needs things like reach and size change and boosted ground speed and impressive punches. The Investigator's formulae list covers a lot of that (long arm, enlarge & reduce person, expeditious retreat)...but needing to prepare formulae send a bit odd, fluff-wise.
I'm wondering if there's anything in Path of War or Psionics that fits well. Ideas?
You could go Stalker (Path of War) and use Veiled Moon Disipline's teleportation abilities and fluff that as super speed. Other Stances and such that class has access to can mimic some of those other things as well.
The Aegis class (Psionics) can do a lot of that as well. Permanent Flight, increased Reach, extra size, faster speed.
It also fits the whole SHAZAM! aspect in that you have to summon the suit (does Ms. Marvel have to do that?).
It appears I was mistaken. On closer inspection, Deadly Fist does NOT give an enhancement to your Unarmed Strike directly. I'm fine with the dice capping at 1d6 though.
And
In short, yes it does. (I did Deadly Fist/Martial Artist in the last superhero game, taking only Gifted Blade powers that mimicked my character's superpowers). Deadly Fist is really, really nice. And it's nicer than you think, because it lets you make your unarmed strikes slashing/piercing/bludgeoning at will. And while you've got +X Keen on your fists, you can stack that with a Holy Brawling Amulet of Mighty Fists (and maybe Brawling Armor if you pick Brawler or something instead of Monk on the other side) and suddenly you are the god of punches.
Plus, if you're going MoMS, you can stack Pummeling Charge with Cudgeler Sweep with Janni Rush to get the ultimate one-punch combo.
I have been thinking, it seems that Iron Fist should have some sort of homebrew ability that lets him spend ki to increase damage. After all, there is a limit to his ability to charge his fist.
I would be leery as a GM of letting the amulet stack. It smacks of the same "I'm wielding a Cruel Cestus while swinging my Greatsword to get bonuses" cheese that is pretty well debunked by various FAQs.
That sounds like a neat combo, but not one I'm super interested in. I got my fill of "One big punch to rule them all" with my Mythic Tetori and Mythic Vital Strike.
I'll probably take Pummeling Style/Charge at some point, but I'll likely lead with my favored Dragon/Snake combo. A good offense and a good defense, all in one.
Especially if we can do the Unchained Monk, where I can take Flying Kick.
I have been thinking, it seems that Iron Fist should have some sort of homebrew ability that lets him spend ki to increase damage. After all, there is a limit to his ability to charge his fist.
The Drunken Master gets an ability like this. I've been considering taking that along with MoMS if I'm allowed to refluff the alcohol as something else. Centering myself spiritually, perhaps.