hello forums im planing on playing a arcanist soon and im becoming kinda sad becuase without doing math it seems like the sorcerer or wizard are better, sorcerer and wizard with more spells perday im looking for advice or knowledge in this comparison
My character was gonna be a school savant admixture and I conpletely missed the extra spell thing thanks!
hello forums im planing on playing a arcanist soon and im becoming kinda sad becuase without doing math it seems like the sorcerer or wizard are better, sorcerer and wizard with more spells perday im looking for advice or knowledge in this comparison
You get fewer casts than the sorcerer, and (normally) the same number of spells "known" at any given level; but using a spellbook, you can change what those spells are every day. Plus, the arcanist is an Int-based caster without being shoehorned into a class-feature selection (sorcerers must be of Sage bloodline to have Int-based casting.)
You're a level behind compared to the wizard, when it comes to getting new spell levels, and you prepare two fewer spells of L6-9 (without an archetype or somesuch); but you have spontaneous metamagic.
To be honest, even the basic arcanist is the "best of both worlds": the flexibility offered by a spellbook, and the flexibility offered by spontaneous casting. You just compromise a tiny bit.
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They all have their merits.
A Wizard has versatility when it comes to how many spells they can know and because of this, they can solve longer term problems with magic more often and not. They also have bonus feats, which gives them access to more metamagic, item creation, and spell mastery, and arcane discoveries, which only wizards can get. The problem with them is book keeping and immediate short term problems, which the wizard either has to have the correct spell to match the situation or be highly creative.
A Sorcerer knows less spells than a wizard, but has more castings per day with the ability to cast any spell they know, which gives them more versatility for immediate short term problems. They also have bloodline powers and spells that have interesting effects and help move the theme of the character.
An Arcanist is a hybrid of Sorcerer and Wizard. Just like the Wizard, they can know an infinite number of spells by writing them down in spellbooks, but they also have the ability to cast any spell they have memorized for the day without expending it (unlike the Wizard whose uses per day and spells per day are the same, so he expends any spell he/she casts). They also have exploits, which are kinda like Sorcerer bloodline powers, but which all (or most) derive from a single point pool called the arcane reservoir pool. This pool and their exploits cause them to be incredibly versatile when creating/leveling the character, but also cuts them slightly short because they don't get bonus feats unless they take up an exploit doing so.
Pros and Cons:
Wizard -
Pros: One spell level ahead other classes, Infinite Spells known via spellbooks, Spells memorized can change per day, Arcane school, Arcane bond, Scribe scroll bonus feat, all other bonus feats, and arcane discoveries.
Cons: Fewer castings per day, spells are "expended" when cast, has to be smart/predict the future when memorizing spells per day, Player book keeping, and spells known are in spellbooks which can be destroyed or stolen.
Sorcerer -
Pros: More castings per day, Can cast every spell they know, Bloodline power, spells and feats, and eschew Materials Bonus Feat.
Cons: Limited spells known, spell progression one level behind wizard's, and Can only exchange spells "known" rarely.
Arcanist -
Pros: Uses both the ability of the wizard to prepare spells each day and the ability of the sorcerer to cast prepared ("known") spells without expending them, Infinite Spells known via spellbooks, arcane reservoir, and arcanist exploits.
Cons: Same spell progression as sorcerer, same number of spells prepared ("known) per day as the sorcerer, less spells cast per day than the sorcerer and slightly more/faster than the wizard (but levels out to be the same as such), Bonus feats take up arcanist exploits, Player book keeping, and spells known are in spellbooks which can be destroyed or stolen.
Sorcerers do not have more spells per day on average compared to a wizard.
A sorcerer has to plan his build ahead carefully to be fully effective. He doesn't have to worry about planning for the next day.
A wizard has to plan her next day carefully. The build, not so much, she can get new spells easily.
An arcanist has no more need to plan his build than the wizard and has an easier time planning the next day but still has to do some. He's more like a wizard lite than a sorcerer IMO.
Sorcerers do not have more spells per day on average compared to a wizard.
I was referring to singular spell levels and they defiantly have more than a wizard starting out and at higher levels, though I guess they have the same number of spells (not of equal level of course) around the middle levels, so I'll give you that.
Sorcerers do not have more spells per day on average compared to a wizard.I was referring to singular spell levels and they defiantly have more than a wizard starting out and at higher levels, though I guess they have the same number of spells (not of equal level of course) around the middle levels, so I'll give you that.
It's not as clear cut as you suggest.
Take a Thassilonian specialist wizard; at level 1 they have 3+bonus 1st level spells prepared, the same as a sorcerers spells per day. At level 3 they would have 4+bonus 1st level spells and 3+ 2nd level spells, compared to a sorcerer's 5+ 1st level spells only.
At high levels if you have some sort of cut off by spell level (e.g. It probably doesn't matter how many 1st-2nd level spells you have at character level 10; you can use scrolls and wands of these quite freely) then the sorcerer will have slightly more at even levels and slightly less at odd levels.
I'm playing an arcanist at the moment (formally a wizard who was transformed via mystical journey) and I'm finding it much more user friendly then the wizard and the number of spells per day is the same. I can't make a comparison to the sorcerer as I've always been put off by their lack of flexibility with spell selection.
I'd have to recommend the arcanist because of the difference the exploits make. I particularly like the Quick Study exploit as you can prepare spells for combat/emergency situations and easily switch out to utility spells as and when they are needed (doesn't matter how many spells per day you can cast if you don't have enough of the right spell prepared)). Spell Potency is another good exploit as it enables you to increase the DC or caster level of a spell by two, so it's kind of like taking Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus or Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration for caster level checks and it's nice to add a couple more d6s to that fireball. Then there's Metamixing to spontaneously cast metamagics and Greater Metamagic Knowledge which gives you a bonus metamagic that you can change each time to prepare spells. The Resist Energy Exploits doesn't have the same limitations as the spell an so includes negative energy and the like. Dimensional Slide is good if you don't have access to the Teleportation subschool Shift ability.
Pay attention to the whole class and don't just fixate on spells per day.
@ Strayshift, LazarX: Yeah, you'd have to find at least one spell in your school per spell level that you'd want to cast twice in a day; not usually a problem. And six schools of magic as a wizard is plenty IME. In 3.5 one of the most powerful prestige classes, the Incantatrix, bans an extra school for 3 banned total.
Something I may not have made clear is that the second part, the high level comparison, wasn't using the Thassillonian Spec; an ordinary specialist about matches a sorcerer at higher levels.
@ Decimus Drake: Yeah, but it's interesting making the comparison and dispelling people's illusions anyway.
And this pretty much sums up why I don't allow the Arcanist at my table - I do think it has too many goodies as well as the best of both worlds regarding casting.I'm playing an arcanist at the moment (formally a wizard who was transformed via mystical journey) and I'm finding it much more user friendly then the wizard and the number of spells per day is the same. I can't make a comparison to the sorcerer as I've always been put off by their lack of flexibility with spell selection.
I'd have to recommend the arcanist because of the difference the exploits make. I particularly like the Quick Study exploit as you can prepare spells for combat/emergency situations and easily switch out to utility spells as and when they are needed (doesn't matter how many spells per day you can cast if you don't have enough of the right spell prepared)). Spell Potency is another good exploit as it enables you to increase the DC or caster level of a spell by two, so it's kind of like taking Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus or Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration for caster level checks and it's nice to add a couple more d6s to that fireball. Then there's Metamixing to spontaneously cast metamagics and Greater Metamagic Knowledge which gives you a bonus metamagic that you can change each time to prepare spells. The Resist Energy Exploits doesn't have the same limitations as the spell an so includes negative energy and the like. Dimensional Slide is good if you don't have access to the Teleportation subschool Shift ability.
Pay attention to the whole class and don't just fixate on spells per day.
Also the absolute WORST of both worlds in regards to casting.
The Arcanist gets spell growth at the rate of a Sorcerer, meaning you will ALWAYS be a level behind the Wizard in terms of gaining spells until you hit lv19 or lv20.
And you cast significantly fewer spells per day than a Sorcerer.
And the VAST majority of Exploits are just plain bad in terms of optimization - Quick Study is by far the best, but is not very great in combat until you're high enough level to cast Time Stop (which, at that point, it becomes ludicrous).
The Alchemist already has a similar trick built into the class: Quick Alchemist allows an Alchemist to prepare an Extract in 1 minute, meaning outside of Battle (where Quick Study would be used mostly), an Alchemist can fill up unused Extract Slots to prepare 15 Extracts in the time it would take a Wizard to prepare 1 spell in an unused Spell Slot.
Ultimately, the Arcanist is weaker than the Wizard, but potentially better than the Sorcerer (though a Sorcerer is still MUCH more potent when it comes to spamming spells).
Personally, I love the Arcanist, and will ALWAYS take it over the Wizard simply because I like the play style better, even IF the Wizard is more powerful.
If you allow the Wizard at your table, but not the Arcanist, then you're not doing right by your players, because you're denying them a cool class that still loses out to the God Class.