If that is not the intent, then I am still confused as to whether you spend a standard action and then gain the effects of see invisibility for a minute (with, perhaps, the ability to end the ability early as a standard action), or if you spend a standard action and gain the effects of see invisibility for one minute per level, but with the ability to end it early (as a standard or free action?) to save the use of some of your ability for later, or if you begin it as a standard action, and maintain it round-by-round as a free action...or what.
Does this rewrite clarify things for you?
"Ether Sight: While you are bound to Death Howls, you can use see invisibility as a spell-like ability for a number of minutes per day equal to your binder level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments."
It probably is and it probably should be assumed as such. That's the typical rule, I'm just spelling it out so a particularly mean-spirited, militant GM doesn't try to tell you that you need to pay another standard action to use the ability.
As someone who has played under those types of GMs before I am very appreciative of the clarification! :)
My impression of the wondrous items.
Bell of Eviction Does what it’s intended to do, that being making binder spirits in the area unhappy. The 3 consecutive minutes hurts a bit as battles could be well over before then, however the bigger bells make this more likely to have the desired effect. The cost of the bells are very high though, so it leads me to believe it’s more meant for an item that players come across in a campaign, or in high level, high occult games.
Brooch of Lamenting Reasonable cost, for an item made for mid to high occult influenced games. It stacks with the cloak of resistance, so if you feel like your DM is going to gun for your spirits, this is a solid answer to that.
Cloak of Constellations Generally always useful, especially if you tend to favor a particular constellation a lot, so that’s a decent plus. The price seems relatively fair, if not a bit on the high side, but gaining +4 to binding checks AND rapid recovery for that constellation is solid. If you have spare monies and you don’t want the standard Cloak of Resistance or other popular cloak slot items, this is a good option.
Dedicated Vest Extremely nice magic item, if you can afford it and you don’t have something else in the chest slot you want, I’d suggest it. Automatically getting the capstone is good mostly because it means you only have to focus on getting a good pact. If you really want / need (and some spirits the major might only seem good with a capstone) the capstone, this saves you from having to try to make 5-10 more on your binding check. Nice.
Endless Chalk While not every surface is useable with chalk, this is an excellent item. Endless chalk? You could make tons of temporary signs, art and of course seals with it, but the +1 to binding checks makes it even better. The fact that it’s very affordable, makes it an item every binder should at least consider.
Exorcist’s Revealing Box While not necessarily useful in low occult campaigns, this item is at the very least extremely flavorful and fun to imagine. Unless you’re playing a character that utterly hates binders, this seems to be more meant for NPCs to use against you, but it’s got a cost… so it can be sold.
Goggles of Spirit Sight Ok in an occult campaign. Better if occultists are the primary villains as, knowing whom an enemy might be can be quite useful. Not all that useful in a low occult game and overall a bit high priced for only being able to see occult spirits. Meh. I’d personally pass.
Gnostic Tomes These can get pricy very fast, but a spirit is something you use a lot of. That said, if a DM drops a Gnostic Tome of a spirit that you’re not interested in using, then you can sell it and net some coin. I’d probably still learn the spirit personally, as you never know when it could come in handy. Since you can learn spirits on your own initiative though, these become slightly sub-par, however they are the much quicker option, so they even out.
Lens of Scribing Very fun item and its essentially a camera for Pathfinder. I like it. Price is reasonable too. Make the command word “Click” for funzies.
Mirror of Spirit Reflecting Usable for figuring out what spirits might be attached to people, however the price for the effect is so high, it leads me to believe its another item meant for NPC use and PC selling, unless there’s a lot of enemy occultists running about, then you might want to hold onto it if it were given to you. Still not sold that it would be an item a PC would want to buy.
Orb of Soul Binding As it was explained to me this item is more meant for master occultists to teach apprentice occultists how to bind. Thus, it seems to be meant as an item NPCs use. I could see this being used by 2 or more PC occultists to allow them to use each other’s spirits. It’s actually pretty difficult to tell how useful this item would be to PCs, but currently outside of story uses, I’d personally say not much.
Skull of Questioning A fun and flavorful item, but it seems very situational. I think there was some changes to this however, so I won’t comment on it too much. Price wise it’s manageable, but wouldn’t be my first pick to buy unless it fits a character’s flavor to a T. Not being able to heal constitution damage for 24 hurts quite a bit.
Spirit Mat Makes the normally 3+ minute binding ritual a 2+ minute binding ritual for one specific spirit, while making it so that you can’t benefit from a couple totems for said spirit at 10,000gp. Not sure if this item got a revamp, but currently it doesn’t seem worth it at all. Saving 1 minute doesn’t mean much really. If a DM wants to interrupt your binding, they can still do it in 2+ minutes. This item, IMO is in line with the Scribe Binder Tattoo feat in that it’s just not all that useful, at least not in comparison to feats / class abilities for other classes or the resources it takes to be able to gain the somewhat meager benefits.
Teeth of Lehran-Darv I feel like there’s a lot of RP possibilities with this item. One could be placing the tooth of a particular spirit inside the mouth of an enemy to inflict spirit influence into it. Lots of downsides to using it for yourself and the price get high really quick, plus you don’t even get the use of abilities until a day later. At least the penalties for disobeying the spirit disappear after 24 hours. It seems like you could get the minor abilities of quite a few spirits while maintaining your own, so there is that. Overall, not something I’d buy, but I’d consider using it, depending on the spirit, if given in loot.
Vaduvian Sphere A very flavorful item, and one that seems great for mages that focus on the newer ages spells; very good, but (understandably) very expensive. I could see casters picking this up if just for reusable “pearl of power” abilities and aging fun. Not bad.
Note: Under the Vaduvian Sphere it says, “This transluscent, violent-tint orb…” I assume it means violet.
A few particularly cool items. I forgot the changes to the skull item, so comments on it could probably just be ignored. Guess that does it for my magic item overlooking. I'll check over the prestige classes, while I probably won't use any of them, maybe I'll find something.
@Third Mind: Gnostic Tomes become considerably more valuable if you're starting a higher level binder, since as far as I can tell, since the automatic access to spirits upon leveling up was removed, while there are ways to gain access to spirits while in-play, as-written, a gnostic tome is the only way to start off with more than a single 1st level spirit (which becomes pretty much mandatory if you're an 4th level or higher occultist, in my opinion). Unless I'm missing something?
I mean, your DM could be generous and allow you to run some Knowledge checks as part of your background (though figuring the right number is tricky) or just allow you to have acquired them via discovery, but that's not included...well, I suppose there's also you paying to be tutored by other users of pact magic, in which case your DM would have to run you through a side session where you spend gold and roll to see if you succeed or only get one a few times...kind of unwieldy, though.
True and fair enough. The fact that one may need to spend a good deal of their beginning wealth in order to have more than one starting spirit (outside of kind DMs) makes me sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth personally. That doesn't make them bad though. They're not bad at all, and I'd be pretty excited if I came across one in loot. Less so if it were a spirit I didn't intend to use, but a spirit's a spirit and it could be useful later on.
I myself was fortunate enough to have a DM that allowed me to start a game with a bunch of spirits already discovered and learned. Mostly for play testing, but also because it made sense to me and my DM, that a mid to high level occultist would have spent at least some time gaining spirits as that's their thing.
Personally though, I sort of really dislike having to essentially wait a week or more to gain a new spirit I can just then obtain due to leveling. It has flavor, but you look around and there's mages automatically gaining spells, warriors automatically learning new feats, etc... I feel like even 1 free spirit gained at the highest level when you level up would have been nice. I'll have to read over again and see if one can learn spirits before you reach the proper level and just not be able to use them. I.e. Learn a lv. 4 spirit at lv. 6, but only be able to bind it when you reach 7th.
Anyways though, yeah, I think you're correct. They are valuable for being one of the few ways to start out with more than one spirit. My comment on them was geared more towards in game play.
I myself was fortunate enough to have a DM that allowed me to start a game with a bunch of spirits already discovered and learned. Mostly for play testing, but also because it made sense to me and my DM, that a mid to high level occultist would have spent at least some time gaining spirits as that's their thing.
Sounds reasonable. Many GMs I know allow their wizard/witch/magus players pay to start with additional spells. The Core Rulebook doesn't spell out that asking for as much is a reasonable request, though. ;-)
Personally though, I sort of really dislike having to essentially wait a week or more to gain a new spirit I can just then obtain due to leveling. It has flavor, but you look around and there's mages automatically gaining spells, warriors automatically learning new feats, etc... I feel like even 1 free spirit gained at the highest level when you level up would have been nice. I'll have to read over again and see if one can learn spirits before you reach the proper level and just not be able to use them. I.e. Learn a lv. 4 spirit at lv. 6, but only be able to bind it when you reach 7th.
The difference is that in most campaign settings, magic IS everywhere and you can discover more of it independently. Wizards can study spells and learn about how magic works. Sorcerers can experiment with their heritage. Most divine casters (and witches) can consult otherworldly forces for power. But when you're an occultist, you don't have ANY of that on your side. And you can't just draw random seals and sigils and hope that you've accidentally created an occult seal and THEN perform random actions until you just happen to perform a ceremony. That's not how occultism works, and that's why free spirits from leveling up felt lame. Convenient, yes, but overall it detracted from the flavor, and powerful flavor is the one thing that the occultist has over almost every class that I've ever seen from every other designer. I am not willing to compromise that for convenience.
So I built a non-combat focused villain who uses cunning and guile to go on sociopathic murder sprees. She binds to spirits to better help her hide amongst the crowds, kill her preferred prey, and generally satisfy her own ego.
Here she is:
Human Occultist (Eldritch Jailor) 5 Greensprout Rapscallion 4
CE Medium humanoid (human); Youth
Init +3; Senses Normal; Perception +9 or +13
Defense
AC 18, touch 18, flat-footed 11 (+3 Dex, +5 dodge)
hp 44 (9d8-9)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +5
Defensive Abilities Greensprout AC Bonus;
Offense
Speed 30 ft., Fly 30 ft (average)
Melee Unarmed +4 (1d3+1d6 Sneak Attack)
Ranged None
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Improved Age Swipe (hour), Childhood Bliss, Bind Spirits (Permanent Tommy Greensprout, Extended Vandrae), Eidolon, Sleep Toxin, Sneak Attack
Tactics
During Combat If absolutely forced into combat, Rachel will use her Eidolon to fight for her, cast Dark Mantle, and then try to hide or run/fly away. If pressed or cornered (and lying, crying, or anything else doesn’t work), she’ll use her Age Swipe ability to turn her opponents into children (they become friendly) or use Vandrae’s Sleep Toxin.
Morale Rachel will do anything to avoid combat, including lying, bluffing, playing off her Innocence, running/flying away, bribing, casting innocence or anything else she can think of. Vandrae’s Dark Mantle ability and bonus to stealth often helps.
Statistics
Str 6, Dex 16, Con 8, Int 13, Wis 7, Cha 19
Base Atk +6; CMB +9 (+17 when stealing); CMD 17
Feats Flexible Pactmaking, Spirit Focus (Tommy Greensprout), Permanent Pact (Tommy Greensprout), Combat Expertise, Improved Steal, Agile Maneuvers, Uncanny Dodge (from Tommy Greensprout)
Skills Acrobatics +10, Bluff +18 (+28 with innocence), Disguise +14 (+24 to look like Youth), Escape Artist +10, Fly +12, Intimidate +18, Know (arcana, planes, religion, history) +8, Perception +9 (+13 when bound to Vandrae), Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +12, Stealth +12 (+16 when bound to Vandrae)
Languages Common
SQ Innocence (take 10 on bluff, cast innocence for 1 sprout point), Childhood Daring (7/day), Forever Young (treated as Youth, +10 bonus to disguise as Youth), Greensprouts Tricks (gain Uncanny Dodge, user Binder Level as BAB for stealing), Soaring Spirits (gain fly speed), Counterspelling (7/day), Dark Mantle (7/day), Guile of Vandrae (+4 stealth and perception), Sprout Pool (8)
Gear Teddy bear, kid’s dress, and simple shoes
Traits Adopted (tiefling) --> Beast Bully (use intimidate instead of handle animal), [one other]
Teddy Bear (The Eidolon)
[Still need to build]
Rachel is permanently bound to Tommy Greensprout and prefers her second spirit to be Vandrae for the spirit's sleep toxin, counter spell, and dark mantle abilities. Even though Rachel appears to be a child, she is an experienced serial killer. She prefers to target adults – the older the better – and turn them into children (her Age Swipe causes them to become friendly towards her). As children, she plays with them in games that get progressively dangerous and deadly, leading to a culmination of murderous glee. She uses her excellent ability to bluff and intimidate in order to coerce the other "children" to do as she says. Her favorite game is to convince them to play "doctor" and get them to lie down, where she ties them down and slowly kills them. When it comes time to rebind to Vandrae, she’ll take one of the male children and sacrifice them as part of Vandrae’s ritual.
Rachel hates physical confrontation with adults. When hunting, she’ll bluff and lie her way into the trusting arms of her prey. She’ll bond with them as a trusting child would, patiently waiting until they fall asleep. Once asleep, she’ll use her age swipe ability to turn them into a child. If anyone is keeping watch, she’ll use her sleep toxin to make them go to sleep before using her age swipe ability. Then she’ll turn anyone else still asleep into children as well, and lead them all away. She prefers to make the age swipe last as long as it can (taking which ever penalties apply). By waiting until they fall asleep, her steal maneuver automatically succeeds as if she rolled a 20, totaling a 37 against her opponent’s CMD.
Personally though, I sort of really dislike having to essentially wait a week or more to gain a new spirit I can just then obtain due to leveling. It has flavor, but you look around and there's mages automatically gaining spells, warriors automatically learning new feats, etc... I feel like even 1 free spirit gained at the highest level when you level up would have been nice. I'll have to read over again and see if one can learn spirits before you reach the proper level and just not be able to use them. I.e. Learn a lv. 4 spirit at lv. 6, but only be able to bind it when you reach 7th.The difference is that in most campaign settings, magic IS everywhere and you can discover more of it independently. Wizards can study spells and learn about how magic works. Sorcerers can experiment with their heritage. Most divine casters (and witches) can consult otherworldly forces for power. But when you're an occultist, you don't have ANY of that on your side. And you can't just draw random seals and sigils and hope that you've accidentally created an occult seal and THEN perform random actions until you just happen to perform a ceremony. That's not how occultism works, and that's why free spirits from leveling up felt lame. Convenient, yes, but overall it detracted from the flavor, and powerful flavor is the one thing that the occultist has over almost every class that I've ever seen from every other designer. I am not willing to compromise that for convenience.
I'm torn. On one hand, it's difficult to not have a new spirit every level or every few levels after leveling up. On the other, I love the idea that occult magic must be researched in order to continue learning about it.
Ultimately, though, I have to side towards the research and not the auto gain from level. Most GM's will allow for the time, even in Adventure Paths. I already allow extra time for my players to craft, research new spells, or have items commissioned for them. I don't see an issue in my games. If it's too difficult for your home game, simply add in the auto-gain from level as a house rule. Any GM who's going to allow 3PP material won't have an issue with a house rule like that. Heck, maybe Alex can make it an optional rule (say, auto gain a new spirit every time you gain access to a new level of spirits), just to give people the idea that you can houserule it that way if you really want to. But yeah - the forced research for greater power just screams occultism flavor.
One note, if she's a Youth then she's not Small, she's Medium. Being a Youth doesn't adjust your size. Being a Child does.
For humans, Youth is 8 – 14 (as stated in Ultimate Campaign). Child is 4 – 7. You guys haven't seen the rules for being a Child yet because its in the not-yet-finished Esoteria section.
v2 of the Greensprout Rapscallion will have an ability that will allow you to decide if Tommy Greensprout turns you into a Child or a Youth. You make the choice at 1st level, then you're stuck with it unless you take an all-new greensprout trick.
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I'm torn. On one hand, it's difficult to not have a new spirit every level or every few levels after leveling up. On the other, I love the idea that occult magic must be researched in order to continue learning about it.
Ultimately, though, I have to side towards the research and not the auto gain from level. Most GM's will allow for the time, even in Adventure Paths. I already allow extra time for my players to craft, research new spells, or have items commissioned for them. I don't see an issue in my...
The book also has rules in Chapter 3 for rewarding Knowledge Tasks or even full-out spirits for free. Ultimately, the occultist isn't (and shouldn't) be a class that you show up with at a game and say, "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm playing this 3PP class called the occultist." The mechanic is intentional; it fosters the intent that you'll TALK with your GM in order to get the most out of the class. Because if you don't, you won't be finding cool, occult rules and such around the places you travel to. And that would be such a shame.
One note, if she's a Youth then she's not Small, she's Medium. Being a Youth doesn't adjust your size. Being a Child does.
For humans, Youth is 8 – 14 (as stated in Ultimate Campaign). Child is 4 – 7. You guys haven't seen the rules for being a Child yet because its in the not-yet-finished Esoteria section.
v2 of the Greensprout Rapscallion will have an ability that will allow you to decide if Tommy Greensprout turns you into a Child or a Youth. You make the choice at 1st level, then you're stuck with it unless you take an all-new greensprout trick.
Thanks for the correction. Fixed. There's probably a few other errors; by the time I can actually sit down and work on a character, it's late in the day and I'm exhausted. Dang kids take up all my free time. :)
Sounds reasonable. Many GMs I know allow their wizard/witch/magus players pay to start with additional spells. The Core Rulebook doesn't spell out that asking for as much is a reasonable request, though. ;-)
Fair enough.
The difference is that in most campaign settings, magic IS everywhere and you can discover more of it independently. Wizards can study spells and learn about how magic works. Sorcerers can experiment with their heritage. Most divine casters (and witches) can consult otherworldly forces for power. But when you're an occultist, you don't have ANY of that on your side. And you can't just draw random seals and sigils and hope that you've accidentally created an occult seal and THEN perform random actions until you just happen to perform a ceremony. That's not how occultism works, and that's why free spirits from leveling up felt lame. Convenient, yes, but overall it detracted from the flavor, and powerful flavor is the one thing that the occultist has over almost every class that I've ever seen from every other designer. I am not willing to compromise that for convenience.
Which is fine. I've accepted that this is how it is already. It's just as flavorful as it is, and it is flavorful, it doesn't feel like I'm actually progressing when I level yet is all. That said, a lot of games I've played finish the session after we've gained a level, so a good amount of the time one could ask to be allowed to research new spirits after they did... whatever it is they did, unless they're still in the middle of a dungeon / fight. So. In the end it doesn't matter that much most of the time anyways.
The book also has rules in Chapter 3 for rewarding Knowledge Tasks or even full-out spirits for free. Ultimately, the occultist isn't (and shouldn't) be a class that you show up with at a game and say, "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm playing this 3PP class called the occultist." The mechanic is intentional; it fosters the intent that you'll TALK with your GM in order to get the most out of the class. Because if you don't, you won't be finding cool, occult rules and such around the places you travel to. And that would be such a shame.
What I will say, is that it has the potential for forcing background development which is cool. For my current character's first spirit he gained in his backstory, I wrote up how he came across it. I didn't with any of the spirits after that (too many not to make a short novel), but i probably will for whatever spirit I gain from here on out (DM willing).
I can definitely agree that it's one that a player should talk and work with the DM with at first. Had my DM told me, "No. You just get the 1 first level spirit at lv. 5" and I had to pay 8,000gp in gnostic tomes to get 2 lv. 2 spirits, I probably would have reconsidered on going with the class. But if he then told me that there would be a decent amount of down time like that of Kingmaker, I'd probably shrug and try it out.
I'll add one more thing, but really it doesn't matter in the end. I probably started with an extremely (maybe overly) generous amount of spirits for my character. However, it hasn't really mattered mechanically speaking so far, as with 2 slots (3-ish if I had gone with Reserve Spirit over crafting). Since switching them out is doable but often impractical with expel spirits, were I not play testing, half of them probably would only be used on rare occasions.
Anyways, enough of that. I've been enjoying the class thus far. I guess I'll see when I hit my first level up with it how the process really is.
The book also has rules in Chapter 3 for rewarding Knowledge Tasks or even full-out spirits for free. Ultimately, the occultist isn't (and shouldn't) be a class that you show up with at a game and say, "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm playing this 3PP class called the occultist." The mechanic is intentional; it fosters the intent that you'll TALK with your GM in order to get the most out of the class. Because if you don't, you won't be finding cool, occult rules and such around the places you travel to. And that would be such a shame.I'm torn. On one hand, it's difficult to not have a new spirit every level or every few levels after leveling up. On the other, I love the idea that occult magic must be researched in order to continue learning about it.
Ultimately, though, I have to side towards the research and not the auto gain from level. Most GM's will allow for the time, even in Adventure Paths. I already allow extra time for my players to craft, research new spells, or have items commissioned for them. I don't see an issue in my...
In the game I'm running with the Pactsworn Champion, I'm letting him choose his first spirit as normal--knowing that he doesn't have high Knowledge checks, he'll either have to rely on the party wizard/librarian to help him track down the lore, receive them via dreams, seek them out in dungeons/ruins, or I drop books for him.
Knowing his current playstyle it will either be the wizard helping him research or him getting them through divine insights. I may be giving him a spirit every other level depending upon the downtime in the campaign to ensure he's able to get the most out of the archetype.
I see most GMs working with the player to discover what's best for the campaign.
Anyways, on another totally random note, if you were ever to make a supplement pdf down the line with just more spirits, I' d probably buy it.... just sayin'.
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Anyways, on another totally random note, if you were ever to make a supplement pdf down the line with just more spirits, I' d probably buy it.... just sayin'.
Honestly, I probably will.
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I see most GMs working with the player to discover what's best for the campaign.
Which is exactly what I want them to do.
What are you looking for in terms of eyes on the prestige classes? Just possible mechanical problems?
Also, I hope my DM will include some non-mission occult stuff in the campaign I'm playing, but if he doesn't, for me the RP of negotiating with spirits is fun enough. Cave Mother wasn't happy when a vampire contacted her for a binding...
What are you looking for in terms of eyes on the prestige classes? Just possible mechanical problems?
Do you think we're good for V3 or are there still outstanding issues that you need us to take a look at, Alexander?
Do you think we're good for V3 or are there still outstanding issues that you need us to take a look at, Alexander?
I saw the Kickstarter update--great to hear V3 is almost ready! Any areas you need us to shore up as part of it?
Yup. You lose the benefit of having an oracle's curse, however. Also, the ability clearly states: "You can transfer any number of granted abilities in this manner, but you you may only transfer one ability each time you use this ability."
Ok. Given the transfer lasts the whole day, I felt it was a little odd to make the transfer take a full round action per ability - I'd have anticipated either a single full round action for everything, or a minute per ability so you can't use it in combat. If it is intended to be 1 round/ability, that's fine.
No, because N'alyia also hates anyone who would try to control her via Command Undead.
Then...why are people who can channel negative energy on the list, but not people who can command undead? Wouldn't it be better to make her favoured enemies anyone with channel positive energy, lay on hands, turn undead or command undead? As it is, she doesn't mind people Commanding her, but does object to them channeling negative energy to heal her...
Do you think we're good for V3 or are there still outstanding issues that you need us to take a look at, Alexander?I saw the Kickstarter update--great to hear V3 is almost ready! Any areas you need us to shore up as part of it?
The nine new spirits will need to be looked at, of course. And if you had any issues with anything in v2, you should totally check that thing out and make sure that I did what I said I was going to do.
I think they were asking "what part of v2 still needs to be looked at?"
For Goliath's Excruciating Pain, it reads, "You inflict waves of pain in one target as a standard action. If you hit, your target suffers a –4 penalty on all d20 rolls that it makes for 1 round unless it succeeds on a Will save." Does "if you hit" imply it's an attack of some sort? And if so, is it a ranged attack, ranged touch attacks, melee attack, or melee touch attack? If not, I'd suggest removing that part.
I rewrote it completely into a different ability with the same name.
So ultimately the question of, "Where the heck am I going to put the Spirit-Touched template?" has been raging in the back of my mind for a few weeks, and I think I've finally come up with a solution. What I'm going to do is take the Autrok familiar and the Carnival Animal templates out of the Spirit chapter and move them to a new Creatures section of Chapter 9 — Esoteria. The move will allow me to have a place to put the Spirit-Touched template in the book while making this section an even four-page section. (One to explain creature stuff, one for the Autrok, one for the Carnival Animal, one for the Spirit-Touched creature.)
So, a question. I'm going to need an example creature for the Spirit-Touched template and the Carnival Animal template. What sort of example creatures do you want to see for those templates? (I was thinking either a Carnival Lion or a Carnival Tyrannosaurus might be fun.) For Spirit-Touched, I was going to do a Youth warrior or something similar. Thoughts?
Also, in order to make this plan work, I'm taking Rasputin's Freakish Mutations and expanding them into a four-page section on mutations and adding a spell that allows you to mutate stuff (which Rasputin will cite). Similarly, I turned Doomed Salu'im's Time Vision into a new spell (Temporal Vision) that his ability cites.
I don't personally know what the spirit-touched is about so I can't say there, but I'd be down for an Elephant or any big cat really, lions, tigers, not bears...oh my.
So, a question. I'm going to need an example creature for the Spirit-Touched template and the Carnival Animal template. What sort of example creatures do you want to see for those templates? (I was thinking either a Carnival Lion or a Carnival Tyrannosaurus might be fun.) For Spirit-Touched, I was going to do a Youth warrior or something similar. Thoughts?
I think Carnival Lion and Youth Warrior would be simple for those new to templates to understand and easily see where the modifications from the templates are. These would also be common creatures for those templates to be applied to.
I like the Lion and Youth warrior as well.
For the Malebolge Moors' manifestation, are you really destined to be damned just for binding them, or is that just flavor (or them lying)?
Basically, the Malebolge Moors make you experience what your eternal punishment in Hell would be if you were to die and be damned there. If you have a better way of wording that in the same number of characters, I'd be appreciative.
For Tartarus' Damnation, does it only target a single creature regardless, or does it target anyone in the area of the gate? The wording seems to imply the former, but it functioning as black tentacles makes it feel like it would try to drag anything where the black gate is...but I think the intention is the former?
Its supposed to work like the former. I changed the wording from "functions as black tentacles" to "functions like black tentacles." Does that clear it up for you, or do you still think its unclear?
As a side note, Alex, when you roll out the third version of the playtest, would it be at all possible for you to add bookmarks for each level of spirit? I'm not asking for one for each individual spirit, I know that would be a lot of bookmarks, but scrolling all the way up or down to the 5th level or so spirits can be a bit annoying for me...if that's too much, I'll understand, just thought it couldn't hurt to ask.
I think I can manage that.
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Some updates for the Occult Scholar archetype and associated abilities. Based on the feedback that I got, I think this'll be appreciated:
Class Skills: All Knowledge skills are class skills for an occult scholar. Remove Perform (Cha) and Profession (Wis) from the occult scholar’s list of class skills.Brilliant Binder: An occult scholar adds both her Intelligence modifier and her Charisma modifier on all binding checks made to seal pacts with spirits and on all Knowledge checks that she makes. This ability replaces the occultist’s 1st-level binder secret.
Scholarly Revelation: At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, an occult scholar select one revelation from the lore oracle mysteryapg. While the occult scholar is bound to a spirit, she gains the benefits of her chosen revelations. An occult scholar cannot select the Extra Revelation feat unless she has levels in a class with the revelation class feature. This ability replaces pact augmentation.
True Revelation (Su): At 20th level, the occult scholar becomes an unending font of esoteric knowledge and lore. She can take 20 on all Knowledge skill checks, including those she isn’t trained in. In addition, she can cast vision as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. If the occult scholar is bound to a spirit, she does not require vision’s material or focus components, otherwise, they must be provided as if you were casting a spell. This ability replaces occult mastery.
Knowledge bequeathed to you by occult spirits augments your book learning.Benefit: An occultist with this secret adds her Charisma bonus (if any) on all Knowledge skill checks that she makes. If the occultist has the occult scholar archetype, she gains a +2 bonus on all Knowledge checks that she makes and she can attempt all Knowledge checks untrained instead.
Basically, the Malebolge Moors make you experience what your eternal punishment in Hell would be if you were to die and be damned there. If you have a better way of wording that in the same number of characters, I'd be appreciative.
I have a few suggestions that clock in at under 150 characters--hopefully they might be able to help.
Demons from the Pit swarm the seal and torment you with Hellfire. After countless time a member of the Malebolge Moors appears to seal the pact. (145 characters)
The seal drops away as you are thrust into the Pit. After endless torments by demons one of the Malebolge Moors frees you to seal the pact. (140 characters)
Hellfire surrounds you as demons inflict upon you the torments of the damned, only stopping when one of the Malebolge Moors appears to seal the pact. (149 characters)
Brilliant Binder
A great change here, incorporating the old Revelation of Brilliance to make this stronger.
Scholarly Revelation
I really like the pact augmentation now that it brings back revelations from the Lore mystery. The only issue here is that it doesn't list how the occultist's binder level is calculated. I think oracle level = occultist level would be fair due to being unable to take Extra Revelation.
True Revelation
This is nice that it no longer requires the material component while bound to a spirit.
Overall these changes make the Occult Scholar much more attractive as an archetype and it would be one I'd have to give serious thought about not taking.
Revelation of Brilliance
Wow--a great change here! Another low-level secret that any Occultist can take and it allows her to shore up those Knowledge checks. The bonus for Occult Scholars allowing untrained Knowledge checks makes it attractive for them as well.
Revelation of BrillianceKnowledge bequeathed to you by occult spirits augments your book learning.
Benefit: An occultist with this secret adds her Charisma bonus (if any) on all Knowledge skill checks that she makes. If the occultist has the occult scholar archetype, she gains a +2 bonus on all Knowledge checks that she makes and she can attempt all Knowledge checks untrained instead.
Interesting. Very interesting.
Some thoughts for other ways deformities or mutations could arise:
1) Radiation. The Technology Guide, being up on the PRD, should be available and includes some brief radiation rules (as well as the Abysium skymetal, which is strongly implied to be radioactive) and this could be an extension of them.
2) Diseases. Either some unique ones or perhaps an optional rule for expanding on others, whether normal diseases or unchained diseases.
3) Poisons. Given the possibilities of poison, and how it can affect fetuses in trace amounts, the existence of a poison in a fantasy setting that can be utilized as a horror weapon to cause deformities or mutations should be feasible.
4) Spells gone wrong. You could consider adding it as an optional modification to the Wild Magic system presented in Pathfinder Unchained, for example, or as a possible new spellblight or pact malady. Alternatively, the spell fumble rules might come into play when fumbling the removal of a transmutation, polymorph, or curse effect.
5) Curses. Enough said, plenty of nasty curses set on people's tombs or just naturally arising from something unnatural sealed away.
6) Monster special abilities. Perhaps a template would do the trick, but I can certainly imagine creating deformities as being something that could result from, say, chaos beasts or drakainia.
7) Fleshwarping or natural mutation. We may not have OGL rules for fleshwarping (and honestly, the ones we do have are pretty vague), but the existence of fleshwarps (such as driders, grothluts, irnakurses, etc.) is well-known, you could perhaps have a template for ones that didn't quite turn out right that have one or more deformities applied to them. Such a template would also be appropriate for ash and marsh giants, ogres, and sahuagin, all noted for high mutation rates.
8) Inhuman heritage. Perhaps there could be a feat where a sorcerer or bloodrager or similar characters with inhuman heritage (eldritch heritage) could push themselves to use a bloodline power as if they...
Even if these aren't made an official part of pact magic, I'm using them. This is fantastic.
Edit: ...I could have sworn there was a post just here by Alexander Augunas asking about deformities/mutations I was responding to...
There was, but I deleted it. (Not fast enough it seemed.)
Basically, while I was pitching it to Dario, a very real paradox occurred. I realized that I was trying to cut one page (one of Rasputin's pages) in order to add in four more pages (the pages I would need to talk about mutations and deformities). So ultimately, I decided to scrap the project, keep Rasputin at a two-page spread, and opt to add two additional deformity options (dogfaced and horrific centaur) while making some slight changes to two others (fuse legs and wax body, the latter of which is now malleable body).
But yeah, those are some AWESOME ideas that I might have to explore later. But they simply won't get in the scope of this product. Dario and I are down to the wire page-count wise.
Some thoughts for other ways deformities or mutations could arise...
Great ideas, Luthorne! I think these could also apply to a wide variety of debuffs in general and would be helpful to many GMs.
Remove Perform (Cha) and Profession (Wis) from the occult scholar’s list of class skills.
Are you sure about removing Profession? As far as I know, it's a class skill for every first party class and archetype, so removing it is...a bit unconventional, like giving a d8 hd class full bab. Given that it's rarely a good choice mechanically to take a profession skill, would it do any harm to leave it in there?
Of course, if you have some reason why an occult scholar can't have a "downtime job" (which is what the skill is normally used to represent, by my understanding), then go ahead. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, though.
Remove Perform (Cha) and Profession (Wis) from the occult scholar’s list of class skills.Are you sure about removing Profession? As far as I know, it's a class skill for every first party class and archetype, so removing it is...a bit unconventional, like giving a d8 hd class full bab. Given that it's rarely a good choice mechanically to take a profession skill, would it do any harm to leave it in there?
Of course, if you have some reason why an occult scholar can't have a "downtime job" (which is what the skill is normally used to represent, by my understanding), then go ahead. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, though.
Barbarians and Bloodragers don't have Profession as a class skill.
Occult scholars don't get it because studying and learning IS their profession. Along those same lines, the Loremaster Prestige Class (Core Rulebook) doesn't have Profession as a class skill. (They, on the other hand, do have Perform.)
Remove Perform (Cha) and Profession (Wis) from the occult scholar’s list of class skills.Are you sure about removing Profession? As far as I know, it's a class skill for every first party class and archetype, so removing it is...a bit unconventional, like giving a d8 hd class full bab. Given that it's rarely a good choice mechanically to take a profession skill, would it do any harm to leave it in there?
Of course, if you have some reason why an occult scholar can't have a "downtime job" (which is what the skill is normally used to represent, by my understanding), then go ahead. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, though.
Barbarians and Bloodragers don't have Profession as a class skill.
Occult scholars don't get it because studying and learning IS their profession. Along those same lines, the Loremaster Prestige Class (Core Rulebook) doesn't have Profession as a class skill. (They, on the other hand, do have Perform.)
I stand corrected. I will point out, though, that wizards also fit the "studying and learning is their profession" concept perhaps even more so than occult scholars, and do get profession as a class skill.
Looking at the SRD, it appears that it's not just the loremaster - most (all?) of the prestige classes don't get profession as a class skill. I guess you're meant to inherit your profession skill (or lack thereof) from your base classes? Either way, I think that wizard is a much fairer class to compare the occult scholar to than loremaster.
Looking at the SRD, it appears that it's not just the loremaster - most (all?) of the prestige classes don't get profession as a class skill. I guess you're meant to inherit your profession skill (or lack thereof) from your base classes? Either way, I think that wizard is a much fairer class to compare the occult scholar to than loremaster.
Personally I think the revisions to the Occult Scholar more than make up for the lack of Profession as a class skill. You can still take it, you just won't get the +3 bonus--or you can take a trait that gives it to you as a class skill if you really need it.
Looking at the SRD, it appears that it's not just the loremaster - most (all?) of the prestige classes don't get profession as a class skill. I guess you're meant to inherit your profession skill (or lack thereof) from your base classes? Either way, I think that wizard is a much fairer class to compare the occult scholar to than loremaster.Personally I think the revisions to the Occult Scholar more than make up for the lack of Profession as a class skill. You can still take it, you just won't get the +3 bonus--or you can take a trait that gives it to you as a class skill if you really need it.
Which trait gives profession (pick one) as a class skill? All I could find were traits which give a class skill of profession for sailor, soldier, gambler, miner, and fortune teller. This is from looking at the Guide to Traits document, which admittedly hasn't been updated in a while. They may have released a new trait which allows you to pick a profession and gain it as a class skill.