Goblin Squad Member
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OK...my experience with this game so far is just bad.
The graphics - on the highest settings on a top-end machine - remind me exactly of Everquest (the first one). Which was a great game. In 1999. Character animations look like Thunderbirds puppets.
That's when the game isn't crashing within seconds of launch, which it does two out of every three launches, or pretty much whenever I try to change the settings to improve the experience.
I must be missing something because other people appear to like this game which I guess means either they've never played any other MMO since DAoC, or they are prepared to get past the fact that the graphics make their eyes bleed. Me, I can't. It's just so amateurish - along with other design choices that make me think the dev team has been locked in a box since at least 2005. Almost worse than the presentation is that there just isn't much to do...and this close to release, I doubt that is going to change much.
I had really high hopes for this game because it has the best IP in the world to build on. But I guess Blizzard really has hired everyone who knows anything about MMO design.
I'm sure I'll get slated for bringing up WoW but it really is the elephant in the room here...I didn't expect PO to be as good at launch as WoW is today, but it's nowhere near even the quality of WoW when it launched in 2005.
Like I said - I love PFRPG and want to love this...help!
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you can't enjoy a game with bad graphics, you have my unending pity. In many ways the classics are absolutely the best. Graphics are an element to good design, but a relatively small one.
I would expect iteration on graphics, but if you're expecting a total overhaul (and if such would be a requirement for you to play), then don't hold your breath.
In terms of 'stuff to do' - there is plenty of stuff to do. But there is not much content, as that is what I expect you mean. This isn't that sort of game. The other players are the content. See: EVE Online.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Got to remember EVE in space has a mahusive advantage over fantasy which has to create a huge world-land-sea-river-weather-seasons dynamic.
This is a problem with current graphics: They are not just limited (budget atm) but limiting (interaction, dynamic change).
I would like less emphasis on graphics and more variety for Weather and Seasons to affect the crops and travel and even critters etc and tactics of players according to these cycles and provisions etc.
The other issue, PFO I think can grow really large when word gets out - not on how acceptable the graphics are - but on how compelling the politics of the playerbase in the game as an emergent story is. For example I was really enjoying on youtube some of the fan theories (amazingly convoluted but compelling!) involving the Game Of Thrones and the "players" machinations for the Iron Throne / Influence.
That's what is going to sell PFO and lead to a spike in the player base. Not the graphics or combat acceptableness.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't expect PO to be as good at launch as WoW is today, but it's nowhere near even the quality of WoW when it launched in 2005.Nah, the comparison you are looking for is EVE in 2003... ;-)
And just like that game there are some of us that can see through the graphics and UI of spreadsheets in the riverkingdoms all the way to anniversary 10 and one of the best looking and by far the best persistent universe and sandbox games around.
I believe what the OP's argument is different than what the counter argument intends to correct.
The EVE example, is not an accurate one, and here is why:
EvE Online launched in 2003/4 with graphics that were comparable to its time. Over the years it has improved those graphics, and for the most part is still considered current.
PFO is starting off at least 6 years behind (that is being generous) and there is not even the promise of attempting to have the graphics being current. The official statement is that they will push the limits of the Unity 4 engine, and with no intentions of upgrading that. There is still room for improvement within the Unity 4, but some time in 2016 if and when PFO goes into Open Enrollment, we could be looking at other games using Unity 5, 6 or higher.
If you start a race a half hour after everyone else, and you run at the same pace as they do, you will finish a half hour after they do. You will never make up that time or ground.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's what is going to sell PFO and lead to a spike in the player base. Not the graphics or combat acceptableness.
I disagree totally with the last part. You are basically saying that both graphics and game play don't count.
People can have that social experience in a vast number of F2P games, that have years of fine tuning and up to date graphics.
The offset to mediocre graphics has alway been exceptional game play. Mediocre in both is a loser in the marketplace flooded with better alternatives, especially free ones.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are a lot of things in the graphics that need to be finished, but as a baseline, they look the way I want them to look. They're gritty, everything isn't shiny with tracers on all your sword swings and Dragonball special effects with every step you take, minimal HUD noise to be functional, largely good designs on armor and such, some great, some not to my taste... hopefully there will be more finishing touches over the years, but I think it looks great so far. It's a different style than the games where everything shines and glows... and I couldn't be happier about that. Just not my style.
There will also be more to do in the future, and the players will always be coming up with more. If you don't see the value in that kind of gameplay, then you are probably looking for a theme park rather than a sandbox, which is fine, and you have lots of them to choose from. It's definitely a different kind of game. The building blocks are very simple right now, and it's going to have better and more intricate pieces as time goes on, but at the end of the day, it's always going to be a big tub full of legos that it's up to us to put together and tear apart.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is a race of one. Sounds like a great way to win first to me. :-P
The only EVE clone out there, Perpetuum, was also Sci-Fi. Fantasy EVE has been waiting for a proper realization for a long long time and finally GWs has the balls/capacity to actually accomplish it. No one else is even trying.
I played EVE (for almost 10 years), and PFO is no EVE (not even in its infancy).
The vision of PFO is to only emulate EvE's player economy, but it has not followed the same road map for developing that and it shows.
The rest of what makes EVE, unique, they are purposefully ignoring or avoiding.
* You can not claim to aspire to be "like EvE" and have anything short of full loot.
* You can not claim to have an "Eve-like" skills system, with all of these gates and being tied to locations (settlements) or companies (social structures).
* EvE does not tie training, trade or cooperation to reputation.
* EVE is a sandbox, PFO.... Not so much...
The more likely candidate of "EvE with Swords" is currently "Crowfall". Even though it does not have persistent campaign worlds, the characters are persistent. The results of the campaigns will have some longer lasting effects as well.
PFO is not in a race of one. It is competing with every game that charges a subscription for limited $$, and it is competing with every F2P MMO out there for the consumer's limited time.
If GW starts thinking they are in a field of one (which I don't think they do), they will still finish in last place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are a lot of things in the graphics that need to be finished, but as a baseline, they look the way I want them to look. They're gritty, everything isn't shiny with tracers on all your sword swings and Dragonball special effects with every step you take, minimal HUD noise to be functional, largely good designs on armor and such, some great, some not to my taste... hopefully there will be more finishing touches over the years, but I think it looks great so far. It's a different style than the games where everything shines and glows... and I couldn't be happier about that. Just not my style.
I don't think anyone is asking for spectacular visual effects with every action.
It is too much to ask for when I hit my key to shoot an arrow, my character doesn't just stand there with his arms at his side, but the goblin still dies?
Or how about, when I'm walking, my legs actually move and I'm not floating across the terrain.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf, how did this game hurt you so deeply dude?
Your 4 EVE points are ridiculous and indicate a perspective 100% blinded to anything outside the pontification you seem so dedicated to.
Sell your accounts, recupe your financial investment and go find another game to troll because there is obviously no point talking to you about this one.
Crowfall sounds great. Plenty of room for it in the market as well. Persistence is a big deal for certain player types though and it will draw heavily on the Rust etc crowd but there is MORE then enough niche left over for this game (and others). Crowfall's infringement on PFO's potential player base is minimal at best.
My four points on how PFO is not an EvE Clone, even conceptually, are dead on accurate. I can only assume that you have little of no experience with EVE, or you would know that already.
I truly wish PFO would become more like EVE, in every aspect besides being a Fantasy based game. I hope that over time GW sees the few missteps that they have taken and move forward with a more compelling product.
As you note, I have invested both time and money into PFO. I would rather have a return through actually playing the game that was described in the blogs, than to have my money back. Money is of little consequence, especially after I have already laid it out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's what is going to sell PFO and lead to a spike in the player base. Not the graphics or combat acceptableness.I disagree totally with the last part. You are basically saying that both graphics and game play don't count.
People can have that social experience in a vast number of F2P games, that have years of fine tuning and up to date graphics.
The offset to mediocre graphics has alway been exceptional game play. Mediocre in both is a loser in the marketplace flooded with better alternatives, especially free ones.
No, saying that the best fantasy mmos with EQ/WOW perspective can achieve and be "massively" is "acceptable". The combat being tab-target is acceptable due to the networking issies (N^2 problem etc). The graphics have to be a compromise with working on a wide range of computers, budget and performance.
It's all about acceptable and therefore at this scale I don't think it's "a race anyone can win"! Though you can lose it as you said when the latest shiny comes out and as Bartle points out "players are trained to want what looks good quickly - not what may not be so good but gets better slowly" quote-unquote.
I also think the other big problem is that this perspective creates an expectation problem: Your character is big in your eyes and this demands more life-like reactions instead of symbolic animations (which suits tab-target better anyway!).
In terms of "EXCEPTIONAL" gameplay - to be accurate yes perfect description: It means unlike what else there is is hence exception-al. And that is equally what I've been proposing PFO's design is. It does not need the current graphics demands: To create a truly-massive tMMORPG that is what it needs to FOCUS on and that is exceptional.
When you're a small part of a vast army coordinating in a huge battle with bodies falling like flies... wonderful! And of course if you can recreate the EVE politics before these marquee events.
A lot of players say about EVE: They love to hear/watch it but not to play it. Some other games fall into that category ie you get to watch the summary episodes instead of creating them.
I think such a HUGE world will itself actually create enjoyable immersion to pad around in exploring it at a new scale. Atm it just looks like every other mmo landscape that is in scale compromised to look more like a model than emulate the grandeur of the Grand Canyon or the towering foothills upon which Mt. Everest sits or the endless tracks of the Northern Taiga and so on. True exploration.
If you are going to create a fantasy world: Create it, don't do it in half-measures as most mmorpgs do.
@Rynnik
I apologies for sounding like an old-record. However seeing where PFO is, and seeing where that mostly derives from, ask some quesions:-
1. Is it from the design?
2. Is it from the budget constraints?
3. Is it from the quality comparison with the market of mmos?
4. Is it form the tech requirements?
ALL the above are huge questions. To unify them: Is the answer and that I believe is what I've been suggesting. Perhaps it's too late to which I am disappointed when we first talked about the visuals back in iirc 2011 early Feb-> I could not have said all this, but I've learnt a lot since watching PFO dev...
Other current indie mmorpgs are not going for nearly the same scale as PFO is. Hence it comes back to that question-answer which rules the rest I feel. Perhaps that is the wrong answer too?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Everything is in good time, we're playing an Early access MMO, they are iterating as fast as they can. They don't have 100 million dollars and 200 devs working on this game. Things like art and animations generally takes quite a bit of time and effort. It's totally feasible they could replace every bit of it, but that could double or triple their timelines. Is it worth fixing the prettiness instead of adding, fixing, or extending features? Probably not at this time.
Content is slim right now because players are supposed to make up a large chunk of it and we just don't have all the systems in place to allow that to really happen. We're really in a prepping and learning stage right now, building relationships and learning the way the game is going to work while building a basic economy. If that's not to your liking you should most likely come back and try again at a later point. Try six months or so from now.
(Side note as bad as EQ? Seriously? Go look at an EQ screenshot, my character's face has 1000x more polys than everything in that screenshot combined. The environments while not amazing are also significantly better. At least use something like early WoW or LotRO, much more reasonable comparisons.)
We aren't going to get everything quickly. So far what they have delivered has matched up with previously stated plans or been pretty close. Nothing they have done so far has been surprising outside of the WoT announcement way back before Alpha. The game has never been billed as fantasy EVE, it borrows some ideas but rejects plenty of others and I've known that since the 2nd Kickstarter. If you've been here that long I don't see how you could possibly be surprised unless you were making a lot of assumptions despite the intent of all their shared designs.
@Bludd
Please don't take this as jumping on the pile and please no one else use this as an excuse for jabs, but your most recent postings seem to have gone from hopeful to bitter and contentious (not like your old style). That's probably not good for you or your interactions with everyone else. Please don't pull an Andius or Audocet, I actually like your older postings.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Coming from a theme park background myself, I would agree that if you are thinking of playing this as one plays WoW, you will not enjoy it. This game is driven by the activity of others around you, just as your activity drives theirs. You need one of two settlement/company situations in game to always be busy - either a small group of very active players, or a very large pool of less active. If you have both you are very lucky. When one has neither, you should change who you play with. The most frequent complaints of "there is nothing to do" seems to consistently come from individuals who are isolated.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you can't enjoy a game with bad graphics, you have my unending pity. In many ways the classics are absolutely the best. Graphics are an element to good design, but a relatively small one.
I would expect iteration on graphics, but if you're expecting a total overhaul (and if such would be a requirement for you to play), then don't hold your breath.
In terms of 'stuff to do' - there is plenty of stuff to do. But there is not much content, as that is what I expect you mean. This isn't that sort of game. The other players are the content. See: EVE Online.
Yeah, don't think I'll be needing your pity, thanks. I've played thousands of hours of MMOs (and indeed MUDs, to your point about graphics) over 25 years. Including hundreds of hours in EVE.
My point isn't that I can't see past the graphics - or even the lack of them - but in 2015 if you're going to make a game that has graphics at all, there is simply no excuse for them being this poor.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@OP:
PFO is a new animal, and it isn't close to 'done' yet. Watch the blogs, one of these days the list of implemented features may be 'playable' for you.
Also, I'd find a group you like hanging in chat with, especially a multi-game clan. Even if that is not enough for PFO to be something you want to spend time with, you can play something else with them and wait for PFO to suit your tastes. If it ever does.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@serioustiger
I think the bits you are missing are
a) It seems the wrong computer to play it on. I know how the regular crashed in alpha drove me crazy. It seems if you have a Mac or a PC with no decent memory/graphics card or bad internet connection then the game can become unplayable.
b) Likely a group to play with. This group needs a company and a settlement where you feel at home as you need them. And they are the only ones that can provide you with the most important part - a purpose why you kill monsters, gather, craft. On it's own these activities lose meaning quickly and become grinding
Killing 500 goblins to gain the next gate is grinding. Staying up late night, gather some friends on short notice and wiping out a Bonedancer escalation that otherwise would haunt you for weeks to come has purpose.
Oh - and in the latter case killing the 500 goblins is also achieved - it just isn't the goal itself
c) The meta-game. Actions in game have consequences - either by you making friends, people helping you out, working together with the community or by making enemies and overcoming everything that is related to this. And as such this and the GW board are an extension of the game
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Goblin Squad Member
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Coming from a theme park background myself, I would agree that if you are thinking of playing this as one plays WoW, you will not enjoy it. This game is driven by the activity of others around you, just as your activity drives theirs. You need one of two settlement/company situations in game to always be busy - either a small group of very active players, or a very large pool of less active. If you have both you are very lucky. When one has neither, you should change who you play with. The most frequent complaints of "there is nothing to do" seems to consistently come from individuals who are isolated.
Yes. But you're not describing PFO uniquely, you're describing any MMO. The most fun by far is the interaction with other players. And as I said, I've played many of them for far more hours than I should have.
However, simply saying "go play with others" to justify a lack of content is a big cop-out. I'm not saying that's what the devs are saying, but it appears to be your argument.
I repeat my original plea...I LOVE PFRPG and I really want to love PFO. But I call "Emperor's New Clothes" on anyone saying that PFO is currently in any kind of acceptable (even viable) state and my fear is that like so many MMOs before it, it will be dead inside a year of release. And that would be a criminal waste of the IP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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However seeing where PFO isWhere exactly? I am daily playing a very much alive and growing game.
You are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
Yes, that's your opinion. Mine is that I have EE access but the game is from viewing judgement of it far from what I want to play atm. I've watched the youtube, I've viewed the forums and I've seen comments elsewhere to make a judgement (a conclusive opinion if you will).
Now I think all the above has been comprehensive enough to consider that PFO for a lot of people (incl. myself) is currently not a very attractive gameplay proposition. There's too many criticisms of it's graphics, it's combat, it's empty landscape, not enough for players to do, not the opposite where the landrush is bursting with kingdom-makers and the sub queues per month are going to unleash the next cohort of players.
So, it is very measured imho why I'm making a strong suggestion to resolve the above observation that may blow up into a big problem. It may simply be too late to change direction and the direction may simple be slow pace before the game clicks and starts being fun...
But I was concerned with the Unity announcement during the 2nd ks due to the fact every mmorpg has promised "massive battles" then seemed to find it beyond possible to deliver (using this perspective) ie the networking tech is so strenuous a challenge. Add to that now, the above comments about graphics and combat the core loop of the gameplay: You've got immediate problem + intrinsic problem, and that is a concern.
The only observation I've made is that I'm seeing RTS games which have a different scale of graphics and show large battles and huge landscape and buildable settlements and buildings and armies and it makes me wonder if this is not a perfect scale fit for the SCALE that PFO's design shouts out as it's USP in the mmorpg market?!
That choice just smacks of Bartle going on about de-emphasizing graphics to improve dev time on gameplay and systems interactions and player interactions. It grates to think how much GW have to spend working on stuff that people will dismiss in the comments as "that's rubbish!" when that is such a contextual thing to say and hence quite unfair.
/fyi, I am actually stroking a (b&)white cat as we speak, which is coincidental.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avena
I'm trying to form a cohesive response, but I honestly am having a hard time narrowing down what you are really trying to say. Change the game to an RTS? That would be a different game with a lot of different problems. Change the graphics scale to an RTS? Doesn't solve communication throughput (the real limiter for mass combat) and just shifts graphics complaining and immersion complaints to a different area.
I really don't understand your argument, do you just want them to scale things differently for aesthetic reasons? Cause I suppose that falls into subjective prettiness, but it won't do anything for performance or play-ability unless they throw out the entire combat system for something a lot simpler. Which kinda defeats the purpose of this style of game...
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Nobody seems to notice the depth of the combat system. Even in PvE with very simple AI, virtually no decisions to make on the fly, and lots of practice, I'm still finding minor improvements in tactics.
Recognizing what the entire enemy group is doing, knowing what effective counters exist to that, and implementing tactical adjustments in PvP will be critical. Moving beyond the FOO tactic of finding a rotation and repeating it will be a significant progression that will stingily differentiate players.
But if you get hung up on the graphics (be more specific! Is it the billboard grass? The hovering belt buckles?) and bugs (which really suck and are indeed major problems), you won't even see the actual game about territory control and having what you hold.
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Goblin Squad Member
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However, simply saying "go play with others" to justify a lack of content is a big cop-out. I'm not saying that's what the devs are saying, but it appears to be your argument.
This is where we won't connect. I'm not justifying a lack of content, I'm promoting it. I specifically chose this game because I was tired of being presented content. I don't want content to come from the devs, I want a game where it comes from players. In my point of view, the less PVE elements, the better. However, I realise that they intend to create more as the game develops, and Crowdforging may accelerate that. In the meantime, as they introduce more tools to facilitate player-created content, such as the upcoming Holdings and Outposts, feuds, caravans etc. it may help satisfy both us.
However, simply saying "go play with others" to justify a lack of content is a big cop-out.
I repeat my original plea...I LOVE PFRPG and I really want to love PFO. But I call "Emperor's New Clothes" on anyone saying that PFO is currently in any kind of acceptable (even viable) state and my fear is that like so many MMOs before it, it will be dead inside a year of release. And that would be a criminal waste of the IP.
PFO is a sandbox. The players are the content. It is quite early, and the game mechanics for letting us create such content are a little thin, but looking better.
I can't predict whether the game will survive, but it gets better every month.
It is entirely possible that they are asking too much money for the game and subscriptions at this stage, but those of us continuing to play obviously haven't lost faith in it eventually being worth the money.
My original 3 months have run out and all my accounts are resubscribing. Many Kick-starter players will have to decide to resubscribe in May.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avena
I'm trying to form a cohesive response, but I honestly am having a hard time narrowing down what you are really trying to say. Change the game to an RTS? That would be a different game with a lot of different problems. Change the graphics scale to an RTS? Doesn't solve communication throughput (the real limiter for mass combat) and just shifts graphics complaining and immersion complaints to a different area.
I really don't understand your argument, do you just want them to scale things differently for aesthetic reasons? Cause I suppose that falls into subjective prettiness, but it won't do anything for performance or play-ability unless they throw out the entire combat system for something a lot simpler. Which kinda defeats the purpose of this style of game...
Here's CU's 1000 chars demo during their ks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eurh6HlARdE
It lacks detail and animation and art etc.
Go to 2015:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdLRYy3o-Qw#t=00h07m00s
I think PFO is going to have to be too ambitious and "spread too thin" given CU is simply RvRvR with forts. PFO has many more layers in the game design.
I posted how much Ryan's emphazied the art and animation work and the result is the current comments and reactions.
I think the RTS scale would:-
1. Reduce Art/Animation challenge / increase output
2. Match the design challenge ie lots of chars on screen with siege weapons and huge formations more visible for tactics...
3. Improve networking given the less information and framerates etc ie simpler info. Eg Bludd's eg of killing a goblin with hands by side!
4. Aesthetically I think it matches too
All faster dev of art assets and world actually looks more epic too and better fit (at least I think subjectively).
5. I think it would differentiate from the competition too. Atm all these fantasy mmos (CU, AA, CF, EQN etc) all look samey and hence PFO compares perhaps unfortunately to some of these others in animations etc.
And here's a pic of 0AD with an army formation:-
http://play0ad.com/wp-content/gallery/screenshots/alpha-8-persianheavyinfan try.jpg
The graphics are simple, but we already see from an open-source mod project on peanuts the type of result PFO needs at some stage of it's development.
Imagine if each of those in the pic were a soldier player for a settlement in PFO and we could start playing that in game in idk 6 months?!
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bludd
Please don't take this as jumping on the pile and please no one else use this as an excuse for jabs, but your most recent postings seem to have gone from hopeful to bitter and contentious (not like your old style). That's probably not...
Please do not fault me for my ride on an emotional roller coaster. I think I've been fairly consistent, with a generally good natured does of sarcasm, cynicism and a few instances of condescension.
The blog on outposts did sour my mood, because I see the very same issues that the WoT system brought.
A bandit steals other people's stuff. There is no incentive for anyone to actually fight for other peoples stuff, when they can more easily harvest their own. They don't even have to transport it, it will be automatically deposited. Even if I wanted to raid an outpost, it can only happen during a very short window and during a predictable time. The defenders will surely be armed to the teeth with threaded gear and empty pockets. So the dynamic is high risk, little or no reward.
FarmVille
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Goblin Squad Member
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However, simply saying "go play with others" to justify a lack of content is a big cop-out. I'm not saying that's what the devs are saying, but it appears to be your argument.This is where we won't connect. I'm not justifying a lack of content, I'm promoting it. I specifically chose this game because I was tired of being presented content. I don't want content to come from the devs, I want a game where it comes from players. In my point of view, the less PVE elements, the better. However, I realise that they intend to create more as the game develops, and Crowdforging may accelerate that. In the meantime, as they introduce more tools to facilitate player-created content, such as the upcoming Holdings and Outposts, feuds, caravans etc. it may help satisfy both us.
Ah ok - then I agree with you - we won't connect, but your position is of course entirely legitimate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see some of that, tho the problem with bandits is their play must affect other people therefore to make it more than just targeting easy (free) targets and making smash and grab as the de facto meeting new person strategy they need to direct the efforts somehow.
It should be about competing, not simply taking. I thought the intent was no one could be self-sufficient with bulk stuff? I suppose we won't know until the numbers start being shown.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf, how did this game hurt you so deeply dude?I think he wanted a murder simulator. He's been railing against every design element that was intended to curb that kind of thing for years.To be fair that isn't what I hear him saying at all.
Of course that is not what I'm saying, but hat is how Nihimon will always interpret it. You should be careful in publicly disagreeing with Nihimon, he doesn't take it well, particularly if you are supporting me in some way.
But to be clear, what I want and have always wanted is EvE with Swords. All aspects of EvE, including the fact that it is a game "Made by wolves, for wolves". Now I expected that some compromises would be made and PFO would be "Made by Sheepdogs for Wolves". But, I believe it is more so "Made by Sheepdogs for Sheep" and the wolves are left with nothing but to become sheepdogs themselves. Eventually, even the sheepdogs will have nothing to do and we all become sheep in the FarmVille Kingdoms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, no idea where I got that idea...Bluddwolf, how did this game hurt you so deeply dude?I think he wanted a murder simulator.Of course that is not what I'm saying...
... what I want and have always wanted is... a game "Made by wolves, for wolves".
You got it from Ryan, but Ryan also said that EvE was not a Murder Sim, and you refuse to acknowledge that.
So when I say I want what Ryan had described as not a "Murder Sim", than I am not asking for a "Murder Sim".
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's hyperbolic talk now and as far as their mechanic descriptions have been stated, nothing has changed. I have never gotten the impression that you can simply do whatever you want. This game has never been advertised as EvE with swords and that's specifically why I'm here, they said it would be different but with competition, PvP, and the ability to build up the world still driving the core of the game.
I absolutely deplore EvE's inherent viability of shoot first ask questions later mentality. It's boring and uninteresting to me. I can go play LoL or CS to scratch that sort of itch with a lot more actual fun.
Edit: I disagree with Ryan then, EvE is a murder sim in my opinion. Step into the 'real' game areas in low and nullsec and there is no reason not to murder anyone you can mechanically speaking.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@Bludd
Please don't take this as jumping on the pile and please no one else use this as an excuse for jabs, but your most recent postings seem to have gone from hopeful to bitter and contentious (not like your old style). That's probably not...
Please do not fault me for my ride on an emotional roller coaster. I think I've been fairly consistent, with a generally good natured does of sarcasm, cynicism and a few instances of condescension.
The blog on outposts did sour my mood, because I see the very same issues that the WoT system brought.
A bandit steals other people's stuff. There is no incentive for anyone to actually fight for other peoples stuff, when they can more easily harvest their own. They don't even have to transport it, it will be automatically deposited. Even if I wanted to raid an outpost, it can only happen during a very short window and during a predictable time. The defenders will surely be armed to the teeth with threaded gear and empty pockets. So the dynamic is high risk, little or no reward.
FarmVille
It can't be "no reward" for both sides. Set your PvP window for when you want content and content will come to you.
Bluddwolf, how did this game hurt you so deeply dude?I think he wanted a murder simulator. He's been railing against every design element that was intended to curb that kind of thing for years.To be fair that isn't what I hear him saying at all.
Of course that is not what I'm saying, but hat is how Nihimon will always interpret it. You should be careful in publicly disagreeing with Nihimon, he doesn't take it well, particularly if you are supporting me in some way.
But to be clear, what I want and have always wanted is EvE with Swords. All aspects of EvE, including the fact that it is a game "Made by wolves, for wolves". Now I expected that some compromises would be made and PFO would be "Made by Sheepdogs for Wolves". But, I believe it is more so "Made by Sheepdogs for Sheep" and the wolves are left with nothing but to become sheepdogs themselves. Eventually, even the sheepdogs will have nothing to do and we all become sheep in the FarmVille Kingdoms.
Wow ... so glad your attitude on your UNC website drove me away from actually joining UnNamed company when my application was approved back in January! I would have never joined PFU and learned how to actually play the game. I just wonder why you spend so much time on these forums when you simply don't play at all.
The posts on this forum are increasingly 'made by trolls for trolls'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf, how did this game hurt you so deeply dude?I think he wanted a murder simulator. He's been railing against every design element that was intended to curb that kind of thing for years.To be fair that isn't what I hear him saying at all.
Of course that is not what I'm saying, but hat is how Nihimon will always interpret it. You should be careful in publicly disagreeing with Nihimon, he doesn't take it well, particularly if you are supporting me in some way.
But to be clear, what I want and have always wanted is EvE with Swords. All aspects of EvE, including the fact that it is a game "Made by wolves, for wolves". Now I expected that some compromises would be made and PFO would be "Made by Sheepdogs for Wolves". But, I believe it is more so "Made by Sheepdogs for Sheep" and the wolves are left with nothing but to become sheepdogs themselves. Eventually, even the sheepdogs will have nothing to do and we all become sheep in the FarmVille Kingdoms.
Wow ... so glad your attitude on your UNC website drove me away from actually joining UnNamed company when my application was approved back in January! I would have never joined PFU and learned how to actually play the game. I just wonder why you spend so much time on these forums when you simply don't play at all.
The posts on this forum are increasingly 'made by trolls for trolls'.
Who says I don't play at all?
I was on last night, killed some mobs, looted two husks, trained two gathering skills to 7, joined up with Goodfellow and did some PvE mini escalations, sorted out some bank stuff and got promoted to leader of settlement company.
On Sunday, I joined up with PFU, and ran the escalation with them and a group of about 12 (including Ryan) for about 2.5 hours.
Not too shabby for not playing at all.
As for our (or my) forum presentation on the UNC website having driven you away, I find that odd. There is not anything there within the last 3 months or more that could be found objectionable. But, even if there was, I'm glad that you found a company more suited to you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think he (Bluddwolf) wanted
a murder simulatora game with unconstrained PvP.Better?
Yes that is more accurate, and I actually have no issue with the concept of safe starter areas, and the Thornguard protection.
Maybe I would say "with less constrained PvP" in light of that detail.
I would love to see the change in the nature of PvP, if GW tested "no threading" for a brief period. That coupled with the ability to reverse engineer (salvage) loot, so that it coukd be repurposed should make both bandits and crafters alike, drool!
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Goblin Squad Member
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It can't be "no reward" for both sides. Set your PvP window for when you want content and content will come to you
You seem to be missing the point, allow me to introduce myself.... I'm a BANDIT and a THIEF. I want to steal other people's stuff.
If I open my PvP window and wait for those looking for PvP, they will show up with threaded gear and empty pockets. There is no reward in that!
Which is why when I see a "slow moving resource node" I don't (or won't in the future) pass up the opportunity for the "thrill and fill". The thrill of combat and the opportunity to fill up my inventory with their loot. Even if I lose, that is still better, because the potential loot was there. Even if I take a reputation hit, the reward was well worth the reputation loss.