I would say that you get only +2 to initiative. Think of it like this... before you roll initiative, what is your status? Sword drawn? Do you have a panache point? Say its no and yes. Roll initiative. Initiative is modified by the above +2 for having a panache, but the sword is not in your hand at the time of initiative. The sword is now drawn. During the surprise round, you then gain +1/+2 to your shield AC.
This is still a benefit. If you are aware during the surprised round, you're getting a +1/+2 to your shield AC (since you aren't flat-footed). For a comparison, this is akin to Two Weapon Defense, but with a little more oomph (since you aren't wielding two weapons for damage).
If you can draw your weapon as part of the initiative check is it in your hand when you start combat? I could see it going either way.
I also can see it going either way. However, I lean towards the affirmative. A character with both of these feats is drawing their weapon as they roll initiative. Initiative takes no time/action. With the quick draw feat, drawing a weapon takes no time/action. Logically (ignoring real life improbabilities and preconceptions), when rolling initiative, a character with both of these feats is wielding the weapon as the dice is rolling.
So, yeah. I'd let them have that +4 to initiative.
Further exposition:
The combat section states that combat begins with initiative being rolled, followed by determining if surprise round is applicable (if it is, do that) and then normal combat actions begin. I reason that if the character is wielding a the sword at any time during the first step of combat, it meets the requirements for getting the +4.
No.
She has to have the Aldori sword in hand at the time you roll initiative. The quick draw happens as part of the initiative roll. that is not BEFORE the roll.
If you do draw the sword, I'd rule that on the NEXT round, your initiative improves by +2 in the order. But on the initial round, if you don't have it in your hand, you get no benefit.
If it is in your hand at the moment of initiative, full +4 of course from the beginning.
==Aelryinth
I'd let it work. If you've invested character resources into allowing your character to instantly react to danger, then it would be kind of a jerk move on my part to not allow you to use them.
If you do draw the sword, I'd rule that on the NEXT round, your initiative improves by +2 in the order. But on the initial round, if you don't have it in your hand, you get no benefit.
That's a good middle ground. Go with that.
The point of contention seems to be: when does combat "start"? Initiative isn't the start of combat. Combat starts once the initiative order has been established.
So I'd say "yes".
edit: Though, this is the Rules forum, so I may be incorrect.
The point of contention seems to be: when does combat "start"? Initiative isn't the start of combat. Combat starts once the initiative order has been established.
So I'd say "yes".
Read Aldori Mastery, posted in the OP.
By your own terms, the person has to start combat with an Aldori sword in your hand, which by your language happens 'after' the initiative check, which means she must have it in hand 'BEFORE' the initiative check to get the +2 from Mastery.
An initiative check bonus after initiative has been rolled can reasonably be applied to your initiative rank in the following round.
Yes, she can get the sword into place before combat. No one is disputing that.
By then, initiative has already been rolled, so she can't get the +2.
==Aelryinth
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Since you can draw the weapon "as part of making the check," I don't see any reason to suggest you couldn't process the order of operations in a manner favoring the PC. There isn't a default "how to resolve simultaneous events when the order actually matters" rule in PF, so it seems you could easily choose to let the PC's efforts be rewarded in this way.
Plus changing the initiative order after everything's been established seems like its adding an unnecessary step to the whole process. Just let the player use his/her feat.
The point of contention seems to be: when does combat "start"? Initiative isn't the start of combat. Combat starts once the initiative order has been established.
So I'd say "yes".
Read Aldori Mastery, posted in the OP.
By your own terms, the person has to start combat with an Aldori sword in your hand, which by your language happens 'after' the initiative check, which means she must have it in hand 'BEFORE' the initiative check to get the +2 from Mastery.
An initiative check bonus after initiative has been rolled can reasonably be applied to your initiative rank in the following round.
Yes, she can get the sword into place before combat. No one is disputing that.
By then, initiative has already been rolled, so she can't get the +2.
==Aelryinth
Ah, I see what you're saying! Since the Aldori Dueling Mastery adds to the initiative, it has to be eligible when the initiative roll is made. Gotcha!
Shame.
Combat doesn't start until after initiative is determined. During the roll you draw the sword. It is worded perfectly for it to work where he gets the +2.
"Before" =/= 'at the same time'.
You have to have the sword in hand before you roll initiative. At the same time you roll initiative, you can draw a weapon...that's not 'before'.
So, the bonus won't apply RAW.
Mind you, if the GM doesn't care, it's not going to hurt anything for an additional +2.
==Aelryinth