Ok so I want to play a Monk character, not a Sacred Fist, not an Unarmed Fighter a straight Monk at least on one side.
But given the way I have been making this character act and perform he is a very Lawful Good character. But more Good then Lawful, he abides the law but his worry is first and foremost doing good.
So I wanted to gain the Saint Template on the character and I need arguments why this could be a good idea for a character to have. We just hit 6th level. I do have 3 exalted feats as I just liked them and they worked well for my character idea of being this calm and collected paragon of good.
The character is actually a gestalt of Monk//Enlightened Paladin (Unarmed Variant).
My Exalted feats are Touch of Golden Ice, Exalted Smite, and Sanctified Martial Strike. I got two via Flaws so I picked up Weapon Focus for Unarmed Strikes as well.
So is there any good argument for the Saint template?
And Yes I do want the mechanical advantages of the template, but also the fluff and flavor of it.
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So is there any good argument for the Saint template?
And Yes I do want the mechanical advantages of the template, but also the fluff and flavor of it.
Alright, I'll be straight with you. The advantages one gains from obtaining the Saint template are so good that most DMs are going to be skeptical (if not downright hostile) in regard to the whole idea of letting a player be one. They'll take one look at it, judge it to be OP, and that will be the end of it.
You might argue that you have to give up a lot in order to qualify, but I think its clear that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.
That being said... You might still be able to play one if you are frank with your DM from the outset of the conversation, which might go something like this:
You: "Hey man, I'm really interested in playing a character like the one described in this book [brings out Book of Exalted Deeds] since my character is already really holy and could probably qualify. Is there any way you'd be willing to tweak the power level of your campaign so that I'll continue to fit in with what you're planning?"
DM: "Hm... Well yeah, I could tweak the campaign, but don't you think the other players will think you're getting unfair advantages? The saint gets some pretty awesome bonuses."
You: "That's true. I don't want to be overpowered. But look, A saint can only have one magic weapon, maybe you could give the other players some magical goodies to help balance them off of my character.
DM: "Alright. On two conditions. You let me take the book home tonight and consider possible modifications to the template. I don't want it to be quite as powerful as it currently is. Also, we run this idea by the other players before making a final decision.
You: "Deal! I'm mostly in it for the flavor anyways, and I think they'll come around so long as I'm not overpowered."
Just be forward about your wishes and try to be flexible.
Good luck!
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Not a chance.
You want flavor? We can work out flavor without increasing the character's power like that overpowered hogwash of a template.
Generally I agree with you on all counts.
But if the DM was willing to scale up his campaign appropriately (more challenging opponents, tougher traps/puzzles, and more powerful loot for the rest of the party) it could be doable.
Harrow of Hightower seems really sold on the idea for his own reasons.
What book is this in?
Well why don't we break down the template and you can inform me what is so OMG powerful.
Type Change to Outsider (Aasimar are already outsider so this shouldnt be such a huge power boost)
Insight Bonus to AC equal to Wis (Ok double dipping Wis to AC is good, but I don't know if Insight goes to touch AC)
Holy Power +2 to Ability DCs (Ok so stunning fist might hit more, the stun ends at the start of your turn which means this only benefits the party.)
Holy Touch an additional damage dice (d6 or d8) depending on type of opponent fought and only if they are Evil Alignment. (Pretty good a pseudo smite, but the average damage shouldn't exceed what the power attack on a two handed weapon brings to the party)
Spell-Like Abilities (Cantrips... three Cantrips which any divine caster can do all day long as well probably a powerhouse for a 3.5 game but really in a PF one? the only one of note here is Bless the only non-cantrip)[guidance, resistance, virtue, and bless]
Damage Reduction is always cool and after 12 HD you have DR 10/Evil (Solid and powerful no doubt)
Fast Healing (Equal to half your HD rounded down) (Ok this is downright insane I will admit)
Immunities (acid, cold, electricity, and petrification attacks.) (Ok dang these are good, rendering most undead useless against this character.)
Visions (60 ft darkvision and low-light)
Protective Aura (I wont try to BS this is insanely powerful, immunity to 3rd or lower spells and protection from evil is way powerful but really at later levels its not the 3rd level or lower spells you should be worrying about.)
Resistance to Fire 10 (On top of the immunities this is a little much meaning the saint is only vulnerable to sonic as a normal damage type)
Tongues, a monk gets this at level 19.. saints get it at level 6 and its still just lets you talk to people.
Ability score bonuses (+2 Con, +2 Wis, +4 Cha) These are really nice but we have seen templates add a heck of a lot more.
And the downside, if you slip even once in being a total paragon of good, you lose all of these and still retain the 2 level CR increase.
Well why don't we break down the template and you can inform me what is so OMG powerful.Type Change to Outsider (Aasimar are already outsider so this shouldnt be such a huge power boost)
It is not a huge power boost by itself but when deciding if something is broken you must look at it in its entirety and also consider what it cost to get it. By the way with that logic you can just let someone plan a solar they are only an outsider. I am well aware that you are not pushing that angle, but when you make your arguments you should consider other things that argument could apply to.
Insight Bonus to AC equal to Wis (Ok double dipping Wis to AC is good, but I don't know if Insight goes to touch AC)
Holy Power +2 to Ability DCs (Ok so stunning fist might hit more, the stun ends at the start of your turn which means this only benefits the party.)
By the rules this insight bonus applies to All forms of AC and CMD.
This is really good for any class with a decent wisdom. It is good enough to make a class invest in wisdom, at least a small amount just to benefit from it.
Holy Touch an additional damage dice (d6 or d8) depending on type of opponent fought and only if they are Evil Alignment. (Pretty good a pseudo smite, but the average damage shouldn't exceed what the power attack on a two handed weapon brings to the party)
This damage applies to every attack, and unlike smite it does not have to be turned on. The more attacks you have the better it is, and a monk, which has FoB gets plenty of attacks. It is enough to raise DPR by a decent amount. What do you mean by "only" if they are evil. Most of the time the enemies in any game will be evil, and if you are taking Exalted feats there is a very strong chance that 95% of your enemies in this campaign are evil. This is not overpowering on its own, but just like being an Aasimar it is not a weak ability.
edit: I forgot that this applied when you get hit also. That is more free damage, well assuming they can get past your newly improved AC. Either way it is a lose/lose for the enemy. Either they fail to hit you or they get hurt when they do, and since it is not weapon damage it bypasses DR.
Spell-Like Abilities (Cantrips... three Cantrips which any divine caster can do all day long as well probably a powerhouse for a 3.5 game but really in a PF one? the only one of note here is Bless the only non-cantrip)[guidance, resistance, virtue, and bless)
These will likely never see use, and they were not great in PF either.
Damage Reduction is always cool and after 12 HD you have DR 10/Evil (Solid and powerful no doubt)
Most enemies are not going to by bypassing this so combine it with your higher AC due to the insight bonus, and your fast healing below, and you just became a lot more resistant to being hurt.
Fast Healing (Equal to half your HD rounded down) (Ok this is downright insane I will admit)
no need to comment here.
Immunities (acid, cold, electricity, and petrification attacks.) (Ok dang these are good, rendering most undead useless against this character.)
These are pretty good to have. Blasting casters are really limited against you. All you have to do is get the party caster to throw a fire protection spell on you. Sonic damage almost never comes up. Petrification is rare, but it is still something that is good to be immune to.
Visions (60 ft darkvision and low-light)
This is really good. Jacking up someone's vision is a good way to hurt them, but now you just don't care about that.
Protective Aura (I wont try to BS this is insanely powerful, immunity to 3rd or lower spells and protection from evil is way powerful but really at later levels its not the 3rd level or lower spells you should be worrying about.)
Actually it depends on the spell. PoE shuts down a lot of enchantement spells, and it protects you from summon monster spells of the guys you will likely be fighting. This is on all the time. Also if someone were to metamagic a fireball so that it does a lot of damage it still only counts as a 3rd level spell, but you don't care because you are immune to it. The best use of stacking metamagic feats is to use them on lower level spells.
Resistance to Fire 10 (On top of the immunities this is a little much meaning the saint is only vulnerable to sonic as a normal damage type)
Ok, now you have that fire resistance I mentioned earlier. The same ability gives a +4 save vs poison.
Tongues, a monk gets this at level 19.. saints get it at level 6 and its still just lets you talk to people.
This one is nice to have but not great.
Ability score bonuses (+2 Con, +2 Wis, +4 Cha) These are really nice but we have seen templates add a heck of a lot more.
That is not really a good argument, especially since most templates are not there for the PC's anyway. The stats are also this low to try to make up for the other stuff you get. Also these stack with the bump to DC's that are already going to happen, and to your bonus to AC and CMD
And the downside, if you slip even once in being a total paragon of good, you lose all of these and still retain the 2 level CR increase.
You are not likely to slip up, so that is a nonfactor unless you do it on purpose for RP reasons, and that almost never happens in a game.
This does come with a LA of +2, but Pathfinder does not even have LA anymore. The problem with LA, even if they were still around was that they might not be enough when you get ____, but then then whatever you gained may not be worth it later on. Then the GM has to compensate or let the player be a lot less useful than he would have been.
Summary:
Immune to "person" spells
SLA's that won't be used.
Tongues(which is nice, but not great)
Really high boost to AC and CMD
Substantial boost to DPR
DR 10/evil
+4 save vs poison(Monks are immune to poison but other classes might like it)
Darkvision and low-light vision, both of which are good to have.
Fast healing(that is way too much)
+2 to your DC's, and that is before you include the bumps to the ability scores. Money wise you could spend 60000 to over 100000+ to emulate this.
Immunities(which PF does not like players to have anymore), and a resistance to another element.
Always on PoE which shuts down a large portion of school of magic, and most of the summons of any future enemies.
You also shut down 3rd level spells, even if the enemy can normally use metamagic to make them still useful at higher levels.
This is something that never should have been created for players to use. It is better as an NPC template.
Saints don't exist as a template in Pathfinder....
Saints don't exist as a template in Pathfinder....
More than likely his GM is running a 3.5/PF mashup or allowing 3.5 things on a case by case basis.
Saints don't exist as a template in Pathfinder....More than likely his GM is running a 3.5/PF mashup or allowing 3.5 things on a case by case basis.
Yes we run 3.P since we all started in 3.5 and Love PF we run a mix and match game because it feels more at home and a lot of it is compatible.
As for not falling, it goes to the DM to decide if your actions qualify as being good enough. Remember its not so much you don't do good its that you do not represent the best of what an Exalted would do. This means you are forced to RP a specific way, whether that was your intent or not. This means following very strict rules the GM sets forth.
For example I cannot attacking fleeing foes, regardless of their danger later on. Unless say they are fleeing with a hostage and even then I am not allowed to attack anyone but the one holding the hostage and only with non-lethal damage. Even then once I have the hostage I cannot further attack the fleeing party I can pursue but not harm. And I must voice my objection to my party doing such.
I must give a portion of my Wealth to every city we enter for a multitude of purposes not just putting up with the party but also for their social needs, and this is further compounded by beggers who need help.
Honesty I cannot tell a lie, not even to save a life, I must be honest but I can choose to refrain from answering if I can manage it, but direct questions cannot be ignored either.
I must uphold not just my honor but the honor of my party and of the towns I stay in. If something dishonorable happens it falls to me to right the wrong. For example if the party Bard sleeps with a townswomen of high standing and causes a scandal i must to my best to help solve the situation in whatever way that I can. Both for the Bards Honor and the women in questions.
Basically my DM is a Ultima fan and I must play as if I am the Avatar and uphold all of the 8 virtues.
Sounds like you want to play a monk with every single vow in the book.
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Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.
Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.
Following that logic then I should have just kept my character at level 1 because everything else is overpowered and all we need is flavor.
Why does the Wizard need level 9 spells.. Just take your level 2 spells and flavor it as you being really powerful at the arcane arts.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would instead suggest looking at the evangelist prestige class. It will advance your monk powers and give you boons based on your specific good.
You would work with your GM if you don't worship a good to make a more individual suite of abilities to match what you are aiming for, and because it's a prestige class you can see your growth in the 'holy ways' and due to it's special class features still keep your monk powers progressing.
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Just admit it.
You know it's way overpowered. Not a little overpowered. Not overpowered. Not fairly overpowered. But extremely overpowered.
You know it.
You wouldn't be here looking for support to convince your GM otherwise.
You want the flavor, then take the flavor. Call yourself a saint; work it out with your GM to have the high priest of your god's largest temple bestow sainthood upon you. Play by all those restrictions if you want. You will actually BE a saint.
ROLEPLAY it.
But do it without all these ridiculous bonuses. Without any of them. None. That's what you want, isn't it? The flavor?
Oh, yeah, right, you also want the mechanical benefits of it. To your credit, you admitted this; admitting it is the first step... My guess is the flavor isn't enough. My guess is the OP is what you're really after, or you wouldn't be here trying drumming up support to convince a GM to let you have this - you would be just roleplaying it already.
I would try to help you, but then the big GM in the sky would change my alignment to Chaotic-Munchkin and I would lose all my class abilities.
Besides, I cannot think of a single thing that would convince me to let a player have it, so I wouldn't know what to say to your GM to convince him.
What I can do is suggest this:
For example, Immunity to Cold might be a 3-feat chain. First feat gives you resistance 5, then the second feat gives you resistance 15, then the third feat gives you immunity.
Make sure that all of the feats have a prerequisite of "Must be a saint".
2. Roleplay your canonization and claim the title of Saint.
3. Use some retraining rules to convert some of your less interesting feats into some of these new feats.
4. Keep taking these feats until you have them all and now you will have all the flavor AND all the benefits, but at a much more reasonable cost.
Just sayin...
Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.Following that logic then I should have just kept my character at level 1 because everything else is overpowered and all we need is flavor.
Why does the Wizard need level 9 spells.. Just take your level 2 spells and flavor it as you being really powerful at the arcane arts.
If this is your argumentation i doubt you Will convince your GM. I asked to undestand why it is important. If this is your answer i cannot help you.
Good luck.
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This means you are forced to RP a specific way, whether that was your intent or not.
If you are taking the Saint template, clearly you intend to RP in the way the saint template describes, at least in the vast majority of circumstances. Flavour restrictions are not a good balancing mechanism for mechanical power.
Well why don't we break down the template and you can inform me what is so OMG powerful.
Damage Reduction is always cool and after 12 HD you have DR 10/Evil (Solid and powerful no doubt)
Fast Healing (Equal to half your HD rounded down) (Ok this is downright insane I will admit)
Immunities (acid, cold, electricity, and petrification attacks.) (Ok dang these are good, rendering most undead useless against this character.)
Protective Aura (I wont try to BS this is insanely powerful, immunity to 3rd or lower spells and protection from evil is way powerful....)
Resistance to Fire 10 (On top of the immunities this is a little much...)
Sounds like you answered your own question.
I agree with Gentleman Wizard. This is possible, but only if the GM is willing to scale up the campaign by giving the other players a comparable increase in power (whether that comes from more magic items, their own templates, or mythic tiers). I'm doing that to accomodate a player who really wanted his dhampir to ascend to true vampire status as part of the game. Note he's also willing to acquire the benefits gradually to make the power progression smoother and to make it easier for me to give the other players their own boons in a way that fits the narrative.
Talk with your GM about what you want and why, see if he/she's flexible, be willing to compromise.
As for not falling, it goes to the DM to decide if your actions qualify as being good enough. Remember its not so much you don't do good its that you do not represent the best of what an Exalted would do. This means you are forced to RP a specific way, whether that was your intent or not. This means following very strict rules the GM sets forth.
For example I cannot attacking fleeing foes, regardless of their danger later on. Unless say they are fleeing with a hostage and even then I am not allowed to attack anyone but the one holding the hostage and only with non-lethal damage. Even then once I have the hostage I cannot further attack the fleeing party I can pursue but not harm. And I must voice my objection to my party doing such.
I must give a portion of my Wealth to every city we enter for a multitude of purposes not just putting up with the party but also for their social needs, and this is further compounded by beggers who need help.
Honesty I cannot tell a lie, not even to save a life, I must be honest but I can choose to refrain from answering if I can manage it, but direct questions cannot be ignored either.
I must uphold not just my honor but the honor of my party and of the towns I stay in. If something dishonorable happens it falls to me to right the wrong. For example if the party Bard sleeps with a townswomen of high standing and causes a scandal i must to my best to help solve the situation in whatever way that I can. Both for the Bards Honor and the women in questions.
Basically my DM is a Ultima fan and I must play as if I am the Avatar and uphold all of the 8 virtues.
I am familiar with the exalted feats, and it is still not common for people to fall so it is still not a problem. Just do what the book says, and you will be safe. If your GM makes things up to force you to fall there is not much I can say about that. I can only go by what the book says, and if your GM is like that I would suggest not taking the template.
Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.Following that logic then I should have just kept my character at level 1 because everything else is overpowered and all we need is flavor.
Why does the Wizard need level 9 spells.. Just take your level 2 spells and flavor it as you being really powerful at the arcane arts.
That is not even close to the same thing. You are comparing special rules to the core rules that everyone is expected to go by.
Yeah the re-flavor argument holds no water. Simply saying "I am a saint" means about as much as saying "I am the god of gods and they all worship me as their lord and master" at level 1.
Arguing that advancing your character in terms of strict mechanical abilities is wrong is stupid. You are aware that every time you gain a level you are advancing your character's mechanical abilities. So your argument doesn't hold much water either.
The big downside of this template is that it is strictly controlled by the DM. If he feels its too powerful he can literally say 'Well I don't feel you have been living up to the Exalted ideal and so you lose your extra powers" If the DM has a bad day or I do it could easily result in me losing two levels of a character that I cannot get back.
I could take the Ghaele Savage class in place of the Paladin and have the aura powers by level 10 which is CR 6 so balances just about when the Saint can be taken.
I am not saying it is not powerful. I am saying it fits well with my idea of the character and yeah it would boost my Monk character to a level that could do a lot better for himself, yes being hard to hit is nice.. but Monks are already hard to hit and hard to kill.. they just don't hit worth a damn.
It also forces you to play a very strict character while my party can do whatever the hell they please. Yes I gain a two level increase.. but no class levels just the abilities from the Saint. At level 6 wizards have 4th level spells so an enemy could still screw me over with a boosted 4th level spell. And the Monk is fluffed as being a mage killer.
But fine, I am just gonna drop the character and make a new one.
Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.Following that logic then I should have just kept my character at level 1 because everything else is overpowered and all we need is flavor.
Why does the Wizard need level 9 spells.. Just take your level 2 spells and flavor it as you being really powerful at the arcane arts.That is not even close to the same thing. You are comparing special rules to the core rules that everyone is expected to go by.
The point was not that. His comment was that you can just reflavor it. Well you can reflavor your 6th level spells as omg powerful world altering spells it just doesn't have much impact overall.
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The point was not that. His comment was that you can just reflavor it. Well you can reflavor your 6th level spells as omg powerful world altering spells it just doesn't have much impact overall.Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.Following that logic then I should have just kept my character at level 1 because everything else is overpowered and all we need is flavor.
Why does the Wizard need level 9 spells.. Just take your level 2 spells and flavor it as you being really powerful at the arcane arts.That is not even close to the same thing. You are comparing special rules to the core rules that everyone is expected to go by.
His point was that you dont' need the special rules to do what you want to do. You can have the flavor without the special rules.
That is also why he used the phrase "extra special rules".
Leveling up is not a part of any "extra special rules".
I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong about the point he was trying to get across.
The point was not that. His comment was that you can just reflavor it. Well you can reflavor your 6th level spells as omg powerful world altering spells it just doesn't have much impact overall.Why is it important to get a overpowered template for flavor? Just play your character and have fun, every roleplay decision dosent need to need to extra special rules in your Favor.Following that logic then I should have just kept my character at level 1 because everything else is overpowered and all we need is flavor.
Why does the Wizard need level 9 spells.. Just take your level 2 spells and flavor it as you being really powerful at the arcane arts.That is not even close to the same thing. You are comparing special rules to the core rules that everyone is expected to go by.
His point was that you dont' need the special rules to do what you want to do. You can have the flavor without the special rules.
That is also why he used the phrase "extra special rules".
Leveling up is not a part of any "extra special rules".
I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong about the point he was trying to get across.
I get what he was saying and he is right if the flavor is all that matters sure say whatever you want. But as I said you can start a character with the flavor of being this "god of Gods" and it means about as much as saying your a saint. The wizard can at later levels casually screw over the multiverse should be he clever enough but giving the monk the ability to ignore 3rd level spells and to hurt bad guys better is just downright unfair.
The wizard is limited in his ability to do certain things. That ability to ignore 3rd level spells is on all the time. Many people in actual gameplay do not run casters at full throttle. However some abilities such as that one do not have an off switch. That means the caster's full potential does not come into play in an actual game most of the time.
As I do not sit at your table I don't know how your group runs their games. Maybe if the players(casters specifically) in your group are running full throttle it is a non-issue, but for most games I have GM'd what you are asking for is a significant boost.
Your GM may also be worried about being caught off-guard. It is very hard to take something from a player without them complaining about it. So many GM's just don't allow certain things.
I know thats why I mentioned it, it is gestalt.
And I know its not perfect I was just bringing it up as a reference.
Having the character hunt evil casters was kind of the idea. Monk's are suppose to be mage hunters but they have very little in ways of actually doing that.
But yes a Saint on the Monk would give them serious power, but honestly how much does it increase the Monk in terms of overall tier power.
I also considered not just not getting my class levels for two levels but dropping my level by 2, so I would havea Monk 4 with the saint template applied.
I know thats why I mentioned it, it is gestalt.
And I know its not perfect I was just bringing it up as a reference.Having the character hunt evil casters was kind of the idea. Monk's are suppose to be mage hunters but they have very little in ways of actually doing that.
But yes a Saint on the Monk would give them serious power, but honestly how much does it increase the Monk in terms of overall tier power.
I also considered not just not getting my class levels for two levels but dropping my level by 2, so I would havea Monk 4 with the saint template applied.
There is no mage hunter class. The monk just has really good saves and AC which makes him hard to kill.
At low levels this is way too good. That is part of what I mentioned earlier about LA's not being enough at some levels but they might be too much at a higher level. I must have missed you mentioned that you were only level 4. I wouldn't even come close to considering this before level 15.
Power is not just based on teirs, but the affect you have with regard to APL=CR encounters.
So as a general point of view this ability is too good.
How much of a boost it is for your table is another question altogether, and at your table it may not mean much at all, but the GM is not here to speak on that.
Why is the GM running a gestalt game? If he is doing it for a reason other than need then the template is not so bad since everyone is powerful anyway, but even then level 4 is too low. If he is only running gestalt to account for a lack of players, then I would not allow the template.
The problem people have with this template is that is comes as a package deal. If you had gotten some of these powers by spending some money, going into a prestige class, etc etc, then it would not be so bad because there would be trade offs. I understand that the template has trade-offs, but not enough, and some of the abilities are wonky.
Getting back on topic: What I would do if I were you was to recommend some nerfs to this template, and see if the GM will work with you on that. Maybe even stretching them out over various levels like the Vow of Poverty stretches its powers out.
Saints don't exist as a template in Pathfinder....More than likely his GM is running a 3.5/PF mashup or allowing 3.5 things on a case by case basis.
If he is playing in a 3.5/PF mashup, then really whats the concern with a Vow of Poverty Monk with the Saint template when clerics can run around with Divine Metamagic and nightsticks right out the gate...
If he is playing in a 3.5/PF mashup, then really whats the concern with a Vow of Poverty Monk with the Saint template when clerics can run around with Divine Metamagic and nightsticks right out the gate...Saints don't exist as a template in Pathfinder....More than likely his GM is running a 3.5/PF mashup or allowing 3.5 things on a case by case basis.
Maybe that style of play is not in his game. I knew about it when I was in 3.5, but I did not bring it to the table because I felt like it would not go over well.
It may also be an issue "not being ready for ___" more than anything else. When the paladin was powered up for PF the number of "Smite/paladins are OP/broken" claims were high. The issue for many GM's was that they were not ready for the power upgrade. Even after smite was nerfed there were still complaints. I have not seen a thread like that in over a year now.
If I was running 3.5/PF on 11 then I dont think the template is that much of a factor, but I don't know if the OP's GM does that. Had he invited the GM here so we could gauge the optimization level of the table it might have been easier to say "yeah you should let him have it".
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It also forces you to play a very strict character while my party can do whatever the hell they please.
I don't know the first thing about your group, how they play, or what flies from the DM's perspective.
In my experience even a vanilla paladin has the potential to be overbearing with his "holier than thou" attitude. Rogues despise their babysitting ways in particular.
Now imagine how much this scales up when you're playing a saint. If you're group wanted to play a band of chaotic neutral mecenaries who make their own rules and have a gray shade of morality you'd probably have to quit the group because neither you nor they could interact with the world how they originally intended.
If the rest of your group can accommodate (even appreciate) the presence of a saint and the DM is willing to scale up the difficulty appropriately there is little issue with the template.
But those are ideal circumstances...