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Attacks of opportunity are a thing that might get you killed at level one, but which aren't usually that big a deal at higher levels (unless it's you being smushed by the giant; it's rarely the other way around). Players don't typically get to make use of attacks of opportunity, but if you'd like to change that the guide below has some suggestions for how you can make an AOO into a game changer.
Any additional thoughts or material is welcome on this topic. Book and page number would be greatly appreciated, or a link to the material in question if you don't have it. I'm only interested in Pathfinder books, but other players might want 3rd party stuff.
How To Make Your Attacks of Opportunity More Effective (In Pathfinder)
Common mistake on lunge, it doesn't help with AoOs, as it ends at the end of your current turn, so unless your enemy provokes during your turn, no dice.
Stand Still is in my opinion a pretty shitty feat. If it wasn't for the fact that Improved Trip had a feat prerequisite, it would blow Stand Still out of the water, because IT allows you to TRIP your opponent rather than stop his movement (so he has to stand up and draw another AoO from you at +4 to hit) and you get a +2 on your first trip AND you can use it any time instead of as an AoO.
Bodyguard though makes any class with an animal companion cause the DM to weep. Make sure to get an armor with Benevolent.
Java Man wrote: Common mistake on lunge, it doesn't help with AoOs, as it ends at the end of your current turn, so unless your enemy provokes during your turn, no dice. Thanks for the catch! Lunge has been taken off the list of suggested feats. Useful, but not in this instance it seems.
You don't really have a lot of Attack of Opportunity Triggers.
You've got to throw in the combination of Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, Punishing Kick, and Fury's Fall, you know, the Trip Build.
I'm very fond of Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush, Paired Opportunist, and Combat Reflexes. If you form up on someone with an ally who also has Combat Reflexes, you can loop AoO's by shield bashing with your attack of opportunity. If you get a Bashing Enchantment on your Heavy, Spiked Shield or Klar, your Bash does 2d6. If you use a Klar, you can blend this build into a Thunder and Fang Build, using an Earthbreaker in your other hand. If you use a heavy, spiked shield, you might take levels in the Phalanx Soldier Fighter Archetype and use a Reach Pole Arm in your other hand, Bull Rushing your opponents away from you to be tenderized and skewered on your Bec de Corbin. Maybe take the Antagonize Feat and finesse opponents to charge onto your Brace Pole Arm and do Double Damage. If they survive, you get another Attack of Opportunity as they move within your Reach, and that will do double damage, too.
I really love Snake Fang. I dip 3 levels on Monk, Master of Many Styles. I take Monastic Legacy, Feral Combat Training, and Improved Natural Attack. Snake Fang is an Attack of Opportunity hair trigger: you get an Unarmed AoO whenever you are attacked an missed! With FCT, you get to use your Claws (or some other Natural Weapon) for your AoO, and between Feral Combat Training and Improved Natural Attack, those claws do 2d6 by level 6! Since MOMS Monks don't get Flurry anyway, they have little reason not to wear Armor and use a Shield. Mithril Medium Armor is not outrageously expensive, gives +6 AC for starters, lets you enjoy a whole lot of Dex bonus, and still lets you use Evasion.
Neal Litherland wrote: Java Man wrote: Common mistake on lunge, it doesn't help with AoOs, as it ends at the end of your current turn, so unless your enemy provokes during your turn, no dice. Thanks for the catch! Lunge has been taken off the list of suggested feats. Useful, but not in this instance it seems. Combat Patrol might do the trick. You might provoke as many AoO's as you get, but it's worth looking at.
For Traits, if you are going for Bodyguard, how about using the Halfling version of Helpful (which is a Race Trait unlike the normal version) in conjunction with Fencer (which is a Combat Trait and therefore incompatible with the normal version of Helpful)? If you have to take a Campaign Trait (note that in Second Darkness Fools for Friends is good if you want to go the Bodyguard route), then you will need to take a Drawback (which gives you 1 more trait) or Additional Traits (which gets you **2** more traits).
UnArcaneElection wrote: For Traits, if you are going for Bodyguard, how about using the Halfling version of Helpful (which is a Race Trait unlike the normal version) in conjunction with Fencer (which is a Combat Trait and therefore incompatible with the normal version of Helpful)? If you have to take a Campaign Trait (note that in Second Darkness Fools for Friends is good if you want to go the Bodyguard route), then you will need to take a Drawback (which gives you 1 more trait) or Additional Traits (which gets you **2** more traits).
Agree completely. I wrote an entire build article on Aid Another though, and it's already linked in the post. Still, a good thing more people should know about.
You're misreading one of the most pointed out mistakes of stand still
When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares,
Pin down is very good.
The Ring of Vengeful Blood Magic lets a bloodrager cast a spell as his AoO. Lots of fun options here.
Paired Opportunists (teamwork feat) gives a +4 bonus to attacks if you're adjacent to your teammate and you both threaten the target.
Combat Patrol wasn't mentioned, although it takes a full action. Possibly better for BAB-deficient builds.
But fundamentally, the best thing you can do is increase your dex modifier. Belt, wand of Cat's Grace, whatever you can do.
Allev wrote: Combat Patrol wasn't mentioned I mentioned Combat Patrol (and Paired Opportunist)!
Allev wrote: But fundamentally, the best thing you can do is increase your dex modifier. Belt, wand of Cat's Grace, whatever you can do. To your list, I would add a dip into Alchemist for that Dex Mutagen.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Allev wrote: Combat Patrol wasn't mentioned I mentioned Combat Patrol (and Paired Opportunist)!
Allev wrote: But fundamentally, the best thing you can do is increase your dex modifier. Belt, wand of Cat's Grace, whatever you can do. To your list, I would add a dip into Alchemist for that Dex Mutagen. While I don't disagree that the dex-enhancing mutagen is great, it's straying a bit outside of the core purpose of the guide. Buffing one's dex comes in so many different forms that I could put together a totally separate guide on the subject.
Beastblade Magus' eleventh-level ability causes you to get an AoO on a target when your familiar hits them with a touch spell. Cast multihit touch spell, pick up Combat Reflexes, if possible get Paired Opportunists on you and the familiar, and use their fourth-level ability to impart Chill Touch or Frostbite as a known spell.
With Paired Opportunists:
Familiar casts their touch spell, gets a free touch -> discharges one charge of touch spell -> you get an AoO -> Familiar gets an AoO -> AoO discharges one charge of touch spell -> Repeat until somebody runs out of AoOs or charges. Or, yanno, the target is very, very dead.
Without Paired Opportunists you want to sink the resources to get 3+ natural attacks, then you can still draw three AoOs in a round easily.
Neal Litherland wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Allev wrote: Combat Patrol wasn't mentioned I mentioned Combat Patrol (and Paired Opportunist)!
Allev wrote: But fundamentally, the best thing you can do is increase your dex modifier. Belt, wand of Cat's Grace, whatever you can do. To your list, I would add a dip into Alchemist for that Dex Mutagen. While I don't disagree that the dex-enhancing mutagen is great, it's straying a bit outside of the core purpose of the guide. Buffing one's dex comes in so many different forms that I could put together a totally separate guide on the subject. It's your guide, and of course you are the one who says what is and isn't appropriate to go in it, but the guide is about attacks of opportunity, and the higher your Dex, the more Attacks of Opportunity Combat Reflexes can give you. You should think about some kind of mention of ways of upping your Dex in your guide.
Of course, depending on the build, it might yield a higher DPR if you use the Strength Mutagen, increasing the accuracy and damage of each AoO.
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Elven battle training adds 1 AoO,
Kensai Magus adds AoOs based on your int mod
There's a paladin archetype which grants additional AoOs based on wis mod
Battle Shaman gains a single AoO
Barbarian rage powers can grant additional AoO's
I've been looking for more
Call out allows for duel combat, Pair with dueling sword feat chain, crane style, panther style(MoMs Monk dip), Duelist, and Kensai Magus for the counter combat master
I think you can actually use a dueling sword as a long sword but don't quote me on that...
Call out requires a standard action though, you may want to find a move action and swift action to do more.
Call out+ performing combatant=?
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- Becoming Large increases your reach, including with polearms. A wand of Enlarge Person will double your reach.
- Effective use of AOOs is dependent on cooperation from the rest of your party. You can be a size Large polearm fighter who threatens 20', but if the greatsword barbarian in your party always charges the enemies when they're 30' away, it won't do you much good.
-On the other hand, if you get a couple party members interested in taking AOOs when you trip the baddies, you can make a devastating team. I know an orc who trips his victims, kicks them on the way down (Vicious Stomp) for nonlethal damage that intimidates them (Enforcer) provoking another AOO (Hurtful) plus the AOO from Greater Trip. My orc is only too happy to add two more attacks (Vicious Stomp and the regular GT one).
- If you use a reach weapon, you don't need any trip feats to consider substituting a trip on your AOO. If they can't reach you, it doesn't matter if you provoke, so if you think you can beat their CMD, go for it. Even if you don't have Greater Trip to make them provoke, you'll still get an AOO when they stand back up, your friends might too, and it'll be at AC-4 for prone.
Threemilechild nailed it. The issues TMC brings up are primary concerns for trying to maximize AoOs. Incidentally, TMC, were you also a child downwind of TMI in 1979? I was ...
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Scott Wilhelm wrote: Neal Litherland wrote: Java Man wrote: Common mistake on lunge, it doesn't help with AoOs, as it ends at the end of your current turn, so unless your enemy provokes during your turn, no dice. Thanks for the catch! Lunge has been taken off the list of suggested feats. Useful, but not in this instance it seems. Combat Patrol might do the trick. You might provoke as many AoO's as you get, but it's worth looking at. No, lunge helps you get AoOs, but that is only due to positioning.
Normally, when you attack with a reach weapon and end your turn, the enemy is 10' away. That means they only need a 5' step to get to you, and as such they do no provoke an AoO and they also get their full attack. Also, if you attack first, then you do not get a movement AoO from that enemy.
With lunge, enemies end up 15' away. Many have to move 10' to reach you, which means you get an AoO and they do not get a full attack (most of the time). That is both offense, and defense. Also, even if you engage that enemy first, you can get an AoO.
Another feat which is important for similar reasons is pushing assault. It also puts the enemy into that 15' away sweet spot. When an enemy is up on you, you just take a 5' step back, full attack and use one of your attacks to push them 5' back. Thus, they are 15' away again. Let them come at you, draw an AoO, and then just wash, rinse, and repeat.
Combining the two feats, you can play a game of keep away that leaves the enemy with only 1 attack per round and lets you get a full attack+ AoOs each round.
OTHER NOTE: How can we talk about AoOs without mentioning the most essential tool for AoO domination- the fortuitous weapon property. 1/round, this +1 weapon property lets you get an extra AoO against the same action at BAB-5- that is basically a small full attack as an AoO. Really powerful stuff. Under some of the best circumstances, you can get up to 7 attacks in the keep away scenario above vs. the enemy's one attack. And remember, these are 2 handed weapon attacks- the standard for knocking out teeth.
- It can be reasonably important to have good perception. DMs will often tell you that you don't get AOOs because you don't know the monsters are there until they hit you. (Those goblins were all hidden in side tunnels ready to ambush you, and now they'll just 5' step up as you kill them.)
- lemeres is correct about Lunge, but only if you can reliably stop them getting adjacent to you (with stand still, or tripping) or push them at least 10' away. Stopping them is the better bet, because with intelligent enemies the DM is perfectly justified in having them say, "Forget that, I'll go attack someone else," if you push them out of your threatened zone.
I'm currently playing a PC who has the phalanx soldier (shield slam & polearm) tactic Scott Wilhelm mentions above. (This also works for mounted characters of any class, who can use a lance one handed while mounted.) In practice, I've done as much "slam them into a wall to knock them over," slams as I've done "slam them away to create room," although the occasional glorious "slam them back off a cliff," is, well, glorious. It's hard to say how she compares, though, since she's in a mythic game where Everything Is Broken.
Magda, I was upwind in Pittsburgh, but March 28, 1979 is my birthday.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Neal Litherland wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Allev wrote: Combat Patrol wasn't mentioned I mentioned Combat Patrol (and Paired Opportunist)!
Allev wrote: But fundamentally, the best thing you can do is increase your dex modifier. Belt, wand of Cat's Grace, whatever you can do. To your list, I would add a dip into Alchemist for that Dex Mutagen. While I don't disagree that the dex-enhancing mutagen is great, it's straying a bit outside of the core purpose of the guide. Buffing one's dex comes in so many different forms that I could put together a totally separate guide on the subject. It's your guide, and of course you are the one who says what is and isn't appropriate to go in it, but the guide is about attacks of opportunity, and the higher your Dex, the more Attacks of Opportunity Combat Reflexes can give you. You should think about some kind of mention of ways of upping your Dex in your guide.
Of course, depending on the build, it might yield a higher DPR if you use the Strength Mutagen, increasing the accuracy and damage of each AoO. Scott,
As someone who's a great fan of the alchemist I agree wholeheartedly. I just feel like devoting a whole section to methods for increasing your dex, and thus increasing number of AOOs, would be like including the line "if you want to do the most possible damage per hit then max out your strength" in a damage-centric build focusing on the greatsword. It's definitely an important consideration, but it's a step so obvious that I don't feel I need to include it.
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threemilechild wrote: - lemeres is correct about Lunge, but only if you can reliably stop them getting adjacent to you (with stand still, or tripping) or push them at least 10' away. Stopping them is the better bet, because with intelligent enemies the DM is perfectly justified in having them say, "Forget that, I'll go attack someone else," if you push them out of your threatened zone. Well, that is one of the beauties of a good reach build- it is defensive through sheer offense. It is not some turtled up monk or sword and board.
First, lets look at the nature of a good polearm in general- it turns you into a 25' wide circle of pain that enemies should fear crossing. You are a living, mobile obstacle. Enemies need to move all the around that circle if they want to reach the casters unharmed...and they may have to take 2 turns to get there. That is a use in and off itself. Plus, with the pushing assault thing, you will typically be throwing them even further from your team.
Next, let us look at the obvious about lunge- it increases you attack range. With a polearm, you can full attack anything in a 45' wide circle (5' step included in that). That is a fair amount of area that you can bring pain, particularly since it may cover the entire frontline for your party.
Remember- a reach build is usually a 2 handed build as well, and that is the standard for melee damage in this game. So enemies that ignore and avoid you will have to pay for that dearly (especially if they are wasting their move just trying to move around your pain circle). It has a lot of the same beauty of a CaGM build- enemies face nothing but pain for aiming at you...and they face pain for ignoring you.
Overall, you present a significant both as a melee attacker and as a tactical resource.
Small correction - Improved Snap Shot brings your threat area to 15 by itself, Greater just improves your crit confirmation and damage rolls on opportunity attacks.
And just my two cents; pure ranged builds (like the Bolt Ace I'm playing in WoR) can probably wait until after getting Snap Shot, or possibly even Improved Snap Shot, to take Combat Reflexes. You won't be getting that many AoO's unless you're ready to be right in the thick of melee, without provoking on your own attacks.
Backlash3906 wrote: Small correction - Improved Snap Shot brings your threat area to 15 by itself, Greater just improves your crit confirmation and damage rolls on opportunity attacks.
And just my two cents; pure ranged builds (like the Bolt Ace I'm playing in WoR) can probably wait until after getting Snap Shot, or possibly even Improved Snap Shot, to take Combat Reflexes. You won't be getting that many AoO's unless you're ready to be right in the thick of melee, without provoking on your own attacks.
Thanks for the correction Backlash!
Also wanted to say thanks again to everyone else for their input. Made a lot of changes and corrections, but I think the guide is certainly better for all the alterations.
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Neal Litherland wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Neal Litherland wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: Allev wrote: Combat Patrol wasn't mentioned I mentioned Combat Patrol (and Paired Opportunist)!
Allev wrote: But fundamentally, the best thing you can do is increase your dex modifier. Belt, wand of Cat's Grace, whatever you can do. To your list, I would add a dip into Alchemist for that Dex Mutagen. While I don't disagree that the dex-enhancing mutagen is great, it's straying a bit outside of the core purpose of the guide. Buffing one's dex comes in so many different forms that I could put together a totally separate guide on the subject. It's your guide, and of course you are the one who says what is and isn't appropriate to go in it, but the guide is about attacks of opportunity, and the higher your Dex, the more Attacks of Opportunity Combat Reflexes can give you. You should think about some kind of mention of ways of upping your Dex in your guide.
Of course, depending on the build, it might yield a higher DPR if you use the Strength Mutagen, increasing the accuracy and damage of each AoO. Scott,
As someone who's a great fan of the alchemist I agree wholeheartedly. I just feel like devoting a whole section to methods for increasing your dex, and thus increasing number of AOOs, would be like including the line "if you want to do the most possible damage per hit then max out your strength" in a damage-centric build focusing on the greatsword. It's definitely an important consideration, but it's a step so obvious that I don't feel I need to include it. I think the idea and maybe a few methods of increasing your dex does deserve some kind of mention in a Guide built around Attacks of Opportunity and possibly Combat Reflexes, but I certainly agree with you that there are limits as to how much space Dex mods should take up. I'd guess that your Guide will have some sample builds, and I guess many of those will provide for some kind of comment on the need for and methods of having/getting a high dex mod temporarily or permantly. As to reconcile the degree to which you should include dex mods--one small part of attack of opportunity builds--I don't have a lot of advice except use your best judgement and believe in yourself.
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