Um..reputation has an effect. I haven't been able to step foot inside a town in going on a little over a week. I can't train, every time I feel up my bags from PVE/Gathering, I have to have someone else on to take my items from me to be banked..it sucks.And yet you still engage in indiscriminate murder regularly. The impact is not meaningful.
How many unspent xp is he handicapped by?
The system may need more tweaking, but we'll never know if someone doesn't take one for the team.
Who else is going to test this stuff and let the devs and the crowdforgers know?
Aragon and Golgotha seem to be it, and frankly both towns are pretty darned restrained compared to all the evil plans Golgotha hatches on comms but never enacts.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I want this to be a game that Open Enrollment folks describe as:
a brilliant balance of meaningful PvP and meaningful PvE where choices matter and risk vs. reward is a constant everyday reality and which also has the best crafting system of any game ever made.
CEO
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It is still early in the game to be judging as to whether it will spin into a PvP gankfest.
This is something that I won't let it devolve into. As somebody who has a lot of time and money invested in this game, I won't let it devolve into a gankfest. Not the game I want representing Pathfinder.
However, I do want PVP in the game. I do want danger from other players. I want it to be meaningful. We will be tweaking the game as new systems such as feuds and declarations of war get into the game to allow folks to focus their PVP efforts more effectively.
The game is more dangerous now than it will be months from now. Give us time to get systems in place and allow us to take feedback and tweak things. We will get the balance right.
-Lisa
Goblin Squad Member
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It is still early in the game to be judging as to whether it will spin into a PvP gankfest. I will say that leaving too soon will help it become such as that is what the remaining crowd will want.
Do not forget to coordinate with allies and make grievances known among them. The systems are still being brought online to give consequence to overzealous PvP folk. Until then, we must rely more upon each other. Breaking down and quitting now will only cause the game to become that which we do not want.
Well that is very much the EVE way, the attitude in EVE is very much that PvP is the real content of a sandbox and therefore people who are not prepared to PvP need to be forced to quit for the good of the game.
It is always difficult to get both types of player to co-exist in a game. The in game activity of banditry fits most of the criteria for sociopathy in DSM IV though less so in DSM V. That does not necessarily mean the players exhibit sociopathic tendencies (nor is sociopathy necessarily bad, most of our politicians, church leaders and sucessful business executives are sociopaths) though clearly those that see the purpose of the exercise as "collecting tears" exhibit these tendencies.
In game crafting/gathering settlement building on the other hand are disrupted by these same traits as internal conflict results.
Note that the one player may have two characters that play opposing styles. There are almost guaranteed to be bandits ganking Keepers Pass that have crafter DTs that are members of Keepers Pass for example. Unlike EVE we have no API access that shows exactly what other characters are on a players account so there is no way of really knowing.
You thus have two in game play styles that are inherently incompatible. This can create difficulties but in fact is what makes teh game interesting. It is therefore essential to ALLOW both types of play to co-exist without forcing one type of player to leave.
Outposts and PoIs will improve the state of PVP immensely. Raiding an outpost will be more consistently enjoyable and rewarding for the attacker and feel less like a personal assault to the victim than pouncing on gatherers.
Quoted for having a strong ring of truth. Time will tell.
It is still early in the game to be judging as to whether it will spin into a PvP gankfest. I will say that leaving too soon will help it become such as that is what the remaining crowd will want.
Do not forget to coordinate with allies and make grievances known among them. The systems are still being brought online to give consequence to overzealous PvP folk. Until then, we must rely more upon each other. Breaking down and quitting now will only cause the game to become that which we do not want.
I can assure you that my mates and I don't want a gankfest.
We're going to be crafting, gathering, gushering, mob hunting, and caravan-ing, too. PvP has to be sensible, but important.
No one I know of has voiced ANY interest in causing players to quit in order to get more PvP. The devs' stated intentions should provide all the meaningful PvP we need.
However the PvP victims who rage and curse and freak out and threaten to quit confuse me, considering the way the game was marketed and the common acceptance that things are still in a rough form, and considering the reality that life is getting SAFER every couple of patches.
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When Lisa Stevens told us 6 weeks into the game that her PvE character had never been attacked, I think that says that there is plenty of economy building going onWell, that has now changed. Decius Brutus chased me for around 8 hexes and needed the help of an agro'ed ogre to take me down, but down I went! First death to a player.
I have been chased twice more by Golgathan bandits and each time I managed to escape by casting some spells and using my Stealth of 90 to hide once I had gotten further away.
I expect I will fall prey a few more times in the future and hope that I can learn enough to give a better fight in the future when encountering bandits.
I still say that when my heart is pounding as I realize that bandits are on my trail is one of the most exciting moments in PFO for me. If it happened every day, I would grow weary, but because it only happens rarely, I find it the right spice for my game.
-Lisa
I couldn't agree with this more. I had the most fun on PFO so far last night. It was exciting being the chaser instead of the chasee.
But I will say that my alt is a gatherer and he waltzes right into the swamps near hammerfall and takes their resources. I have encountered numerous people there and they are content to just let me be. I WANT to feel at least a little unsafe. I WANT to have a bit of a pounding in my chest when I am full of gathered goodies and I run into an unknown.
When outsiders come to gather near Golgotha, they know it is a risky proposition. Id like to see that ring true for other settlements as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is still early in the game to be judging as to whether it will spin into a PvP gankfest. I will say that leaving too soon will help it become such as that is what the remaining crowd will want.
Do not forget to coordinate with allies and make grievances known among them. The systems are still being brought online to give consequence to overzealous PvP folk. Until then, we must rely more upon each other. Breaking down and quitting now will only cause the game to become that which we do not want.
I can assure you that my mates and I don't want a gankfest.
We're going to be crafting, gathering, gushering, mob hunting, and caravan-ing, too. PvP has to be sensible, but important.
No one I know of has voiced ANY interest in causing players to quit in order to get more PvP. The devs' stated intentions should provide all the meaningful PvP we need.
However the PvP victims who rage and curse and freak out and threaten to quit confuse me, considering the way the game was marketed and the common acceptance that things are still in a rough form, and considering the reality that life is getting SAFER every couple of patches.
Two from my settlement will be quitting... one after his three months are up and the other suspended his account of 13 months. They want RP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sadly, Mourn has informed me he has (at least temporarily) suspended his account.
I would like to throw out there that if anyone in BwG steps up as an interim leader in his absence, I am still willing to discuss peace terms. Please send me a PM
Obviously, if no one engages in talks, we will continue with business as usual. I know that last bit sounded like a threat but its just a statement of fact.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When Lisa Stevens told us 6 weeks into the game that her PvE character had never been attacked, I think that says that there is plenty of economy building going onWell, that has now changed. Decius Brutus chased me for around 8 hexes and needed the help of an agro'ed ogre to take me down, but down I went! First death to a player.
I have been chased twice more by Golgathan bandits and each time I managed to escape by casting some spells and using my Stealth of 90 to hide once I had gotten further away.
I expect I will fall prey a few more times in the future and hope that I can learn enough to give a better fight in the future when encountering bandits.
I still say that when my heart is pounding as I realize that bandits are on my trail is one of the most exciting moments in PFO for me. If it happened every day, I would grow weary, but because it only happens rarely, I find it the right spice for my game.
-Lisa
I couldn't agree with this more. I had the most fun on PFO so far last night. It was exciting being the chaser instead of the chasee.
But I will say that my alt is a gatherer and he waltzes right into the swamps near hammerfall and takes their resources. I have encountered numerous people there and they are content to just let me be. I WANT to feel at least a little unsafe. I WANT to have a bit of a pounding in my chest when I am full of gathered goodies and I run into an unknown.
When outsiders come to gather near Golgotha, they know it is a risky proposition. Id like to see that ring true for other settlements as well.
That is why there are alignments, whether implemented or not in game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But I will say that my alt is a gatherer and he waltzes right into the swamps near hammerfall and takes their resources. I have encountered numerous people there and they are content to just let me be. I WANT to feel at least a little unsafe. I WANT to have a bit of a pounding in my chest when I am full of gathered goodies and I run into an unknown.
When outsiders come to gather near Golgotha, they know it is a risky proposition. Id like to see that ring true for other settlements as well.
You may be sorely disappointed on that front in the EBA area, then. We are "the good guys" after all. So, clamping down on resource gatherers when there are plenty of resources for all doesn't make much in-character sense. Why exactly would we attack you if you're not causing any harm?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You may be sorely disappointed on that front in the EBA area, then. We are "the good guys" after all. So, clamping down on resource gatherers when there are plenty of resources for all doesn't make much in-character sense. Why exactly would we attack you if you're not causing any harm?But I will say that my alt is a gatherer and he waltzes right into the swamps near hammerfall and takes their resources. I have encountered numerous people there and they are content to just let me be. I WANT to feel at least a little unsafe. I WANT to have a bit of a pounding in my chest when I am full of gathered goodies and I run into an unknown.
When outsiders come to gather near Golgotha, they know it is a risky proposition. Id like to see that ring true for other settlements as well.
Because I'm degrading your resource hexes by depleting them, and walking around with said resources that I depleted?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Because I'm degrading your resource hexes by depleting them, and walking around with said resources that I depleted?You may be sorely disappointed on that front in the EBA area, then. We are "the good guys" after all. So, clamping down on resource gatherers when there are plenty of resources for all doesn't make much in-character sense. Why exactly would we attack you if you're not causing any harm?But I will say that my alt is a gatherer and he waltzes right into the swamps near hammerfall and takes their resources. I have encountered numerous people there and they are content to just let me be. I WANT to feel at least a little unsafe. I WANT to have a bit of a pounding in my chest when I am full of gathered goodies and I run into an unknown.
When outsiders come to gather near Golgotha, they know it is a risky proposition. Id like to see that ring true for other settlements as well.
If folks start strip-mining hexes and truly impacting resource availability, that's another matter entirely. I've not seen that happening, though I'm not exactly monitoring the resource health of hexes since Erian doesn't gather. I'm fairly certain that approach, and the resulting response from EBA on offending settlement hexes, would be detrimental to the game. We certainly aren't going to attack gatherers and steal their stuff. That would just make us bandits. Not exactly the image we're going for.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Something else, using global/hex chat for personal gains is Meta-Gaming. Honor-less. Where is the GM to help with that?
We were in the area looking for banditry to perpetrate, and he basically announced that he was coming back pretty soon and going to have lots of nice things to take. How could we possibly ignore that?
I have to admit, I actually was strongly considering the possibility that it was intentional, and set up as a way to try to catch us unawares. Which would have been AWESOME.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Something else, using global/hex chat for personal gains is Meta-Gaming. Honor-less. Where is the GM to help with that?We were in the area looking for banditry to perpetrate, and he basically announced that he was coming back pretty soon and going to have lots of nice things to take. How could we possibly ignore that?
I have to admit, I actually was strongly considering the possibility that it was intentional, and set up as a way to try to catch us unawares. Which would have been AWESOME.
Once again, alignments. Just because your character is evil, doesn't mean everyone is. Now the person is quitting over it and that just hurts everyone.
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Sadly, Mourn has informed me he has (at least temporarily) suspended his account.
I would like to throw out there that if anyone in BwG steps up as an interim leader in his absence, I am still willing to discuss peace terms. Please send me a PM
Obviously, if no one engages in talks, we will continue with business as usual. I know that last bit sounded like a threat but its just a statement of fact.
That is indeed unfortunate, and I hope something can be done to work out retaining Blackwood Glade as a viable settlement. Losing another to inactivity, getting even more vacant, is not good for the game.
And for that, I would ask that you reconsider your last statement. If last night's actions resulted in potentially destroying an entire settlement not 3 months into the game, I would hope for the sake of the game Golgotha would consider that and modify your actions accordingly. I'm not saying stop PvP, I'm saying be judicious in your targets, just as a TT GM must sometimes modify encounters to keep the game alive. There are plenty of us willing to offer you opportunities for PvP. When it's pursued to the very real detriment of the game (see Ryan's recent posts on needing to maintain break-even costs or this whole thing tanks), I'd have to break from my support of Golgotha as a valuable Evil part of the PFO equation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Because I'm degrading your resource hexes by depleting them, and walking around with said resources that I depleted?
If I'm reading the dev messages correctly, that one hasn't happened yet. Until (at least) the next update (maybe two), resources get reset every morning. The land will be a different place a month or so from now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sadly, Mourn has informed me he has (at least temporarily) suspended his account.
I would like to throw out there that if anyone in BwG steps up as an interim leader in his absence, I am still willing to discuss peace terms. Please send me a PM
Obviously, if no one engages in talks, we will continue with business as usual. I know that last bit sounded like a threat but its just a statement of fact.
That is indeed unfortunate, and I hope something can be done to work out retaining Blackwood Glade as a viable settlement. Losing another to inactivity, getting even more vacant, is not good for the game.
And for that, I would ask that you reconsider your last statement. If last night's actions resulted in potentially destroying an entire settlement not 3 months into the game, I would hope for the sake of the game Golgotha would consider that and modify your actions accordingly. I'm not saying stop PvP, I'm saying be judicious in your targets, just as a TT GM must sometimes modify encounters to keep the game alive. There are plenty of us willing to offer you opportunities for PvP. When it's pursued to the very real detriment of the game (see Ryan's recent posts on needing to maintain break-even costs or this whole thing tanks), I'd have to break from my support of Golgotha as a valuable Evil part of the PFO equation.
When I said "that last bit sounded like a threat but its just a statement of fact" I meant exactly that.
To clarify: I was told to inform our people that we will cease our banditry during (and possibly after, depending on the outcome) negotiations.
In the absence of negotiations, I have no power to make Golgothans stop attacking people from BwG, even if I wanted to. That would have to come from the leadership (which was where my ability to cease banditry during talks came from).
Otherwise, I don't have the authority.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Whilst its sad for those of us friends with BWG that Blackwood Glade look like leaving the game and becoming a ghost town I was under the impression that the POINT of sustained banditry around a settlement was to make that settlement fail and the players leave.
Surely that is what makes it meaningful PvP and the only justifiable reason for harassing them.
Otherwise a settlement 12 hexes away harassing a much smaller settlement is really just griefing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Note, the Tower NAP is no longer valid--all Core 6 towers disappeared with today's patch release.
Weeeeeeeeeellllllll...
It is no longer possible to take core six towers from a small settlement and control their PvP window or make them no better than an NPC. Even Aragon is back in the fold. Technically, Ryan has imposed the NAP across the whole map.
Sadly, Mourn has informed me he has (at least temporarily) suspended his account.
I would like to throw out there that if anyone in BwG steps up as an interim leader in his absence, I am still willing to discuss peace terms. Please send me a PM
Obviously, if no one engages in talks, we will continue with business as usual. I know that last bit sounded like a threat but its just a statement of fact.
That is indeed unfortunate, and I hope something can be done to work out retaining Blackwood Glade as a viable settlement. Losing another to inactivity, getting even more vacant, is not good for the game.
And for that, I would ask that you reconsider your last statement. If last night's actions resulted in potentially destroying an entire settlement not 3 months into the game, I would hope for the sake of the game Golgotha would consider that and modify your actions accordingly. I'm not saying stop PvP, I'm saying be judicious in your targets, just as a TT GM must sometimes modify encounters to keep the game alive. There are plenty of us willing to offer you opportunities for PvP. When it's pursued to the very real detriment of the game (see Ryan's recent posts on needing to maintain break-even costs or this whole thing tanks), I'd have to break from my support of Golgotha as a valuable Evil part of the PFO equation.
How do we do that without turning the I quit threats into an I win button? Serious question.
If the devs see some specific result that they don't intend then a "Don't Do That" statement is all that is needed until the game mechanics can be changed.
But an I'll quit if anyone interferes with my profit making threat will rapidly become an invulnerability spell.
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I will rephrase that to make it clearer.
IF the purpose of harassing a much smaller settlement 12 hexes away was to force them to quit that may be bad for the game itself but is totally acceptable. I gather that was the real intent (whether by leadership direction is another issue) as comments were made like "if you do not like it just move north".
IF the harassment was NOT with any intent to force BWG to be abandoned then it was griefing and should be bannable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess I'll need confirmation from Phyllain then--is the intent of this banditry to destroy settlements, so that when Blackwood Glade falls then Hammerfall is next? If so, that's very different from my current understanding. Further, I expect Golgothan players can, and must, make their own decisions to not support behaviors detrimental to the entire game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We just wanted to kill some stuff, and the south happens to be the easiest place to kill some stuff...Once again, no TT GM in place to give the eyebrow.
Nor should there be. TT is an inherently cooperative experience. This is a competitive experience. The two are not comparable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nor should there be. TT is an inherently cooperative experience. This is a competitive experience. The two are not comparable.We just wanted to kill some stuff, and the south happens to be the easiest place to kill some stuff...Once again, no TT GM in place to give the eyebrow.
Were you cooperating with your evil band of Gol's?
I will rephrase that to make it clearer.
IF the purpose of harassing a much smaller settlement 12 hexes away was to force them to quit that may be bad for the game itself but is totally acceptable. I gather that was the real intent (whether by leadership direction is another issue) as comments were made like "if you do not like it just move north".
IF the harassment was NOT with any intent to force BWG to be abandoned then it was griefing and should be bannable.
I'm sure there are as many reasons for the 2 nights of raids I saw as there were participants.
Generally, when my mates get bored they go south and stir up the hornet's nest and wait an hour or more for the zerg to finally sally forth.
The recent announcement of Keeper's Pass being a would-be trading post likely attracted people though I didn't hear anyone announce that (it partly was why I joined my mates, though... I was hoping for a target rich environment)
My main reason for PvP, though... I wanted to take advantage of the last 2 nights of extra PvP tower hexes before version 4.2.3, and my mates were already down there and I'm all into the social cohesiveness thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nor should there be. TT is an inherently cooperative experience. This is a competitive experience. The two are not comparable.We just wanted to kill some stuff, and the south happens to be the easiest place to kill some stuff...Once again, no TT GM in place to give the eyebrow.
You clearly play in a non competitive TT game where the GM is trying to avoid killing the players and sees a party death as unfortunate unless "deserved".
It's true that 90% of TT is played that way but not where I come from.
I guess I'll need confirmation from Phyllain then--is the intent of this banditry to destroy settlements, so that when Blackwood Glade falls then Hammerfall is next? If so, that's very different from my current understanding. Further, I expect Golgothan players can, and must, make their own decisions to not support behaviors detrimental to the entire game.
The biggest population is down south.
B.G. is a convenient place to bank one's ill-gotten gains. I wouldn't be surprised if that exact activity led our guy to be there to overhear that chat.
Reason would suggest the EBA (the largest alliance in the game) is the least likely org to be provoked into quitting by a band of 8 or 9 PvPers over 2 nights.
Reason may not prevail in B.G.
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Generally, when my mates get bored they go south and stir up the hornet's nest...
Meaningless. No purpose but your own enjoyment, and a bonus if folks get upset by it. Probably even a bigger bonus if it hurts the EBA's recruitment efforts.
The thing that bothers me about it is that you're taking advantage of the insignificant in-game consequences right now. We all know there will be repercussions later, but right now, nothing can be done about it other than to ask you to show some restraint, and we all know how well that's going to go over.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The thing that bothers me about it is that you're taking advantage of the insignificant in-game consequences right now. We all know there will be repercussions later, but right now, nothing can be done about it other than to ask you to show some restraint, and we all know how well that's going to go over.
K
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Goblin Squad Member
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How do we do that without turning the I quit threats into an I win button? Serious question.
If the devs see some specific result that they don't intend then a "Don't Do That" statement is all that is needed until the game mechanics can be changed.
But an I'll quit if anyone interferes with my profit making threat will rapidly become an invulnerability spell.
I'll answer that by starting with a quote I like, "a brilliant balance of meaningful PvP and meaningful PvE where choices matter and risk vs. reward is a constant everyday reality and which also has the best crafting system of any game ever made."
You know who, right now, has the most responsibility as players to make that happen? The PvP crowd. It is an acknowledged issue with PFO that it targeted (for good or ill) TT players of Pathfinder and many of those players are now in system shock. You know the one group that can help them the most. The PvP crowd. The TT folks, PvE folks, RP folks, etc. aren't going to teach the PvP crowd nearly as much about how to exist in this game. These players need to understand that PvP is a part of the world, and that it has a very good role in making PFO the challenge it's intended to be. But you won't teach them that by running them off. You, the PvP crowd, have to be able to monitor your own actions and self-police so that the very statement you made above can come true. If you aren't willing to do that, then it's a pipe-dream.
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All this going on while my single combat focused character sits waiting for EE4 to come back because all but one of my attack feats is one of the new ones, and one of my utilities is a new one. (For those who don't know, no secondary effects of the new feats function and channeling is non-functional as well because they didn't exist in EE3.)
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Um..reputation has an effect. I haven't been able to step foot inside a town in going on a little over a week. I can't train, every time I feel up my bags from PVE/Gathering, I have to have someone else on to take my items from me to be banked..it sucks.And yet you still engage in indiscriminate murder regularly. The impact is not meaningful.
That's not true, now your misinforming people. I have not killed a single person outside of a pvp hex, that has not attacked me first. I do want to get back into town and train, and not require people to ferry my goods to the bank. SO the rep system is working just fine. Trust me, I spend MUCH more time up near Golgotha doing gathering/PVE then I do pvp.
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The "meaningful" choice being made by a lot of non-pvp players at the moment is log out and just accumulate XP or in some cases suspend the account for a few months.
It is very important to remember that many PvE players are not even slightly interested in thrills excitement or an adrenaline rush and are not going to suddenly discover they "love pvp" after being ganked a few times - they are logging in to relax and work on some longterm goal while chatting with friends and if that is not possible they will just not play.
The idea that you can "teach" someone who is not PvP inclined to enjoy that lifestyle by attacking them is nonsense. It is like force feeding someone pizza to make them realize how irrational their dislike of pizza is.
