Goblin Squad Member
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Guurzak jus want ta blah dat me cant wayt fer owtposts so's me kin start bein rayder insted of a bandut. Banduttin aynt rilly Guurzaks ting but its wot us got rite now.
Guurzak bettin deres plenny udders dat feels da saym.
Corse deres plenny dat lubs bandittin too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd hope that GW decides to only have guards near bank and at respawn shrines.
I think that would be a nail in the coffin for a lot of players, myself included. Settlements can set their own thresholds as low as they want. There's no good reason why people should have to expect that they can be easily and readily killed by anyone, any time, while standing in the streets of their home town.
@Thod
Solo PvPers should have backup on comms. While I often patrol the coal hex myself, I always know that some of my mates will jump off the mountain to join me if I want some help. There are times I call for backup just because I can tell by how slowly my target is moving that I'm going to need help carrying all of our newfound wealth.. Thanks Flynn Pontis. :-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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On the subject of solo gatherers, I don't say this is a bad idea from personal perspective, but rather from GW's stated intent. Combat-ready characters can far more effectively go solo. They are built for hostile encounters and don't have to carry any goods they'll lose (currently). This applies to both the Good Guys and Bad Guys. Gatherers are not in this state. They are by nature not as well equipped to handle hostile actions, whether NPC or PC, and so should either accept the risk or go with friends/allies. This mirrors reality. It mirrors what I'd expect in a tabletop game. I can't count how many scenarios I've played where hostiles are picking off loners at the fringes of civilization and the PCs are sent in to deal with the issue. Think of it this way, if this were a tabletop game, the gatherers, refiners, crafters, and many merchants even would all be NPCs. Nobody would play a lumberjack on tabletop. They'd play the Ranger that protects the lumberjack from bandits.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Gatherers are not in this state. They are by nature not as well equipped to handle hostile actions, whether NPC or PC, and so should either accept the risk or go with friends/allies.
You can be a productive gatherer with one week of XP spent. At this point players who started day 1 have 8 weeks of XP. If you chose not to spend any of the other 7 weeks of XP to get yourself combat-ready that's on you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Gatherers are not in this state. They are by nature not as well equipped to handle hostile actions, whether NPC or PC, and so should either accept the risk or go with friends/allies.You can be a productive gatherer with one week of XP spent. At this point players who started day 1 have 8 weeks of XP. If you chose not to spend any of the other 7 weeks of XP to get yourself combat-ready that's on you.
Exactly, and some people do just that, or perhaps split gathering skills with refining/crafting. Those folks need to understand the risk they are taking. Throrin, my DT, has no offensive capabilities at all beyond his starting club. He's not built to fight. He's built to carry a lot, run really fast, and resist a lot of attacks. I understand the risks for him, and I've acted accordingly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd hope that GW decides to only have guards near bank and at respawn shrines.I think that would be a nail in the coffin for a lot of players, myself included. Settlements can set their own thresholds as low as they want. There's no good reason why people should have to expect that they can be easily and readily killed by anyone, any time, while standing in the streets of their home town.
I had said in my initial post on the subject, it would be nice if settlements could choose.
In Aragon, for example, I would have guards just at the bank and at the respawn point. I would sacrifice upper tier training in exchange to allow for lower reputation characters to have access to training. I would have a fee for non citizens to train, rather than a "white list" of only those who are allowed to train.
Aragon would become like a "Wild West" frontier town, with very few mechanical controls only necessary to prevent total anarchy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree that customization in the level and location of NPC protection in settlements would be nice. I come at it from an economic perspective, though; it would be fun to try and figure out the best balance of protection that would still allow me the largest possible investment (i.e. DI, settlement slots, etc.) in non-protection considerations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Thod
Solo PvPers should have backup on comms. While I often patrol the coal hex myself, I always know that some of my mates will jump off the mountain to join me if I want some help. There are times I call for backup just because I can tell by how slowly my target is moving that I'm going to need help carrying all of our newfound wealth.. Thanks Flynn Pontis. :-)
The incident happened 5 or 6 hexes away from Golgotha and to my knowledge there was no valuable loot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I had said in my initial post on the subject, it would be nice if settlements could choose.
I come at it from an economic perspective
I think that Settlements should not only be able to choose, they should have to choose, and there should be a cost (in coin, or whatever) that is incurred for more guards/higher levels of protection. You want a settlement that is tight as a drum and as safe as possible? You need to pay for more Thornguards (or patrol with players). You want to (or need to) save some coin? reduce the number of Thornguards (and accept the consequences).
The dynamic that would be created for the Settlement to be able to maintain its preferred level of safety would be fascinating. There would be inherent settlement benefits and detriments to decisions related to level of security. And this would not preclude additional player patrolling.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I had said in my initial post on the subject, it would be nice if settlements could choose.
Sorry, it wasn't clear to me that the settlement choice was applying to everything afterward in your post. I considered it a possibility, but since the other part stood on itself in a separate paragraph, I wanted to address it as such a possibility.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd hope that GW decides to only have guards near bank and at respawn shrines.I think that would be a nail in the coffin for a lot of players, myself included. Settlements can set their own thresholds as low as they want. There's no good reason why people should have to expect that they can be easily and readily killed by anyone, any time, while standing in the streets of their home town.I had said in my initial post on the subject, it would be nice if settlements could choose.
Ah, sorry then, disregard my post.
You sound like a bunch of punk kids justifying your bad behavior.
Confirming this 50+ year old kid still likes punk rock music.
But justification isn't needed. PvP windows exist for the sole purpose of allowing UNLIMITED PvP combat, and reputation penalties exist for the rest of PvP combat.
"Rep is a currency, it should be spent". - Benevolent Dictator
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Goblin Squad Member
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All of this is great, but what everyone here doesn't seem to realize is that this game does not have the current player base to support PvP. It has been implemented too soon. Economy and in-game function should be the focus while this game is still in "Beta." I understand, but dislike PvP, that it is necessary for game balance and do agree with that. However, this game cannot support it yet in all fairness. It should have been introduced with Open Enrollment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If it were introduced in Open Enrollment, how could it be crowdforged? I'd rather work on rough edges now, with a limited group of people, rather than when the hoped for thousands pour in. We need to establish a culture now of how this will function for PFO, a culture that all major power blocs support, so that we can infuse this culture into players as they join. Any economy that forms now, in an environment with no PvP, would create an unfeasible model when PvP is later switched on because we've then trained all the players that gathering, caravans, etc. are all safe. That would in turn lead to mass-revolt from those that had grown to expect the safety.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If it were introduced in Open Enrollment, how could it be crowdforged? I'd rather work on rough edges now, with a limited group of people, rather than when the hoped for thousands pour in. We need to establish a culture now of how this will function for PFO, a culture that all major power blocs support, so that we can infuse this culture into players as they join. Any economy that forms now, in an environment with no PvP, would create an unfeasible model when PvP is later switched on because we've then trained all the players that gathering, caravans, etc. are all safe. That would in turn lead to mass-revolt from those that had grown to expect the safety.
The grass will not grow if it trampled on over and over. It may learn to adapt, but will never thrive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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WE (Goodfellow and I) had traveled down that way as well. Stopped off in Blackroot Glade (or whatever it is called) and saw no one. We pushed further on into Keepers Pass, and finally!!! People!!
Had some fun, got killed twice, stopped off to visit Hall for accolade and in tavern for a mug!
No respawn camping on the part of inhabitants (TSV or KotC), good sportsmanship, and not unexpected.
I'd like to see the option of guards being turned off in PC settlements. and honestly, If someone is willing to raid in the heart of a PC settlement, should there really be a Reputation hit for that? Granted it was only 800 but that was without a kill (and I was at around +6900).
I'd hope that GW decides to only have guards near bank and at respawn shrines.
For those that took my position in the wrong way, that was entirely my fault. Stating a "like to see" and a "hope for" are easily mistaken for a contradiction.
A settlement should have optional settings for such things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If there were no risk of PvP for months/years, the game wouldn't have even gotten off the ground.
I'm a gatherer. PvP is not what my character is skilled at, nor is it PvE. I still enjoy PvP, and I rarely die, despite gathering in locations that are said to be dangerous. It's not an endless trampling, for sure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If it were introduced in Open Enrollment, how could it be crowdforged? I'd rather work on rough edges now, with a limited group of people, rather than when the hoped for thousands pour in. We need to establish a culture now of how this will function for PFO, a culture that all major power blocs support, so that we can infuse this culture into players as they join. Any economy that forms now, in an environment with no PvP, would create an unfeasible model when PvP is later switched on because we've then trained all the players that gathering, caravans, etc. are all safe. That would in turn lead to mass-revolt from those that had grown to expect the safety.The grass will not grow if it trampled on over and over. It may learn to adapt, but will never thrive.
Tougher plants can thrive in harsh environments. Even if people are more PVE-focused, they should learn to become cacti instead of grass.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that Settlements should not only be able to choose, they should have to choose, and there should be a cost (in coin, or whatever) that is incurred for more guards/higher levels of protection. You want a settlement that is tight as a drum and as safe as possible? You need to pay for more Thornguards (or patrol with players). You want to (or need to) save some coin? reduce the number of Thornguards (and accept the consequences).
This is already the design, except that instead of coin, you pay for your guards with Development Index points. The more DI your settlement spends on security, the less you have for anything else like declaring wars or building an upgrade for your wizard college.
All of this is great, but what everyone here doesn't seem to realize is that this game does not have the current player base to support PvP. It has been implemented too soon. Economy and in-game function should be the focus while this game is still in "Beta." I understand, but dislike PvP, that it is necessary for game balance and do agree with that. However, this game cannot support it yet in all fairness. It should have been introduced with Open Enrollment.
When Lisa Stevens told us 6 weeks into the game that her PvE character had never been attacked, I think that says that there is plenty of economy building going on.
I'll even go so far as to say that since my gatherer, also has never had combat initiated against her, that any gatherer who has gotten attacked this early in such a low population world might just be bad at PFO.
Cronge, have you actually been attacked, or are you merely READING ABOUT IT?
There are hot spots where people keep repeating the same mistakes and rewarding PvPers with husks holding 7 spells at a time and those folks make the forum headlines when a bandit list gets made and discussed.
On the Real Life nightly news, the 99.9999999% of the population that didn't get their heads chopped off after traveling to a known war zone don't make headlines. The same is true in PFO forums.
Probably 500 people built the PFO economy last night while 6 or so fell while trying in a known PvP combat hot spot that had already made headlines the night before for EXACTLY the same type of incidents.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Savage Grace, and others on either side of this issue, I would ask one specific thing for this thread. Refrain from personal attacks such as calling players "idiots." That is not helping those of us (you have noticed I'm on the pro-PvP side, right?) trying to make a case to support PvP as integral to PFO. If you can't talk in a civil fashion, don't talk here.
edited it to those "folks". Sorry, but when folks make it seem like death is all around because a very few folk don't exercise more wisdom it pushed my buttons. But like I said elsewhere, I'm trying to accept the community in the state I find it in, so I'll try to use gentler language.
edited again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll even go so far as to say that since my gatherer, also has never had combat initiated against her, that any gatherer who has gotten attacked this early in such a low population world might just be bad at PFO.
I'm glad you said might, because I might be sub-par, but I don't think I'm bad at it, and it didn't take me very many days to get killed leaving Rathglen by Allegiant and their ally-of-the-moment, Gpunk.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Getting attacked is often a mix of factors, "bad luck" (i.e. timing and location) being primary. Thus there are two things for non-PvP focused players to consider--when/where should I be doing my thing and if combat breaks out how do I respond. At times, the latter is dictated by the former plus the number of folks attacking you. If you die before you even realize there's hostility, you're possibly better off running. If you're carrying valuables, it's best to move in a group, have folks that can handle the combat (or at least delay it) while the carriers make an escape.
I'll even go so far as to say that since my gatherer, also has never had combat initiated against her, that any gatherer who has gotten attacked this early in such a low population world might just be bad at PFO.I'm glad you said might, because I might be sub-par, but I don't think I'm bad at it, and it didn't take me very many days to get killed leaving Rathglen by Allegiant and their ally-of-the-moment, Gpunk.
Were you alone? Did you know the neighborhood and its reputation?
Did you have a choice about being there? Why'd you choose to be there?
I know all that sounds like the start of blaming the victim, but it can also clue you and the rest of us on why you got a sub-optimal result.
And heck, Allegiant killed me while gathering in their coal hex (before husks were in), but I wasn't counting that because my "attacker" and I had already talked and it was pretty clearly consensual combat when it finally occurred. I had every opportunity to avoid it.. I had only gone there to see if it was a coal hex (which I had already confirmed), and after traveling that far I viewed a little pre-husk PvP as a BONUS.
"Rep is a currency, it should be spent". - Benevolent DictatorCan I take a line of credit out on it?
UNLIMITED REP SPENDING is yours once you reach -7500. It never goes lower, right?
You just need to work on your credit score (and kiss any training goodbye). ;-P
Confirming this 50+ year old kid still likes punk rock music.
That explains the Lita Ford/Cruella DeVille hairdo
You should have seen me in the 80s. LOL. Our fashion sense was so atrocious we were always being cast as specialty extras in nightclub scenes for movies and videos.
I may have engaged in a little hyperbole. :-)
We all are likely to have "learning experiences" as we travel to new places and as the game enters new phases. Personally, I get into comfortable little routines as a neophobe defense against having "learning experiences" too often.
If you tracked my historic movement by time spent in hexes you'd see I've inhabited a very small percentage of the map, so far, and it would look like ant trails.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Heh, Lita Ford...Forgot about her. I had her on the tape deck with Metallica and Dio.
This made me laugh out loud.... A "tape deck"! I still remember my Eagles albums on 8 Track, and that was an upgrade, my Led Zeppelin collection was still all records.
Let me use my rotary phone to call my mom and see if she still has mustard colored ,corduroy, pants and my plaid suit jacket and salmon button down shirt.
Thank God the 70's are long gone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Back to the topic of PKing solo gatherers. Yes it is still going to happen, especially when you serve yourself up for it.
Yesterday, and the night before, I had two opportunities for solo kills outside of Marchmont. One, two days ago, was some guy "xxxx the Mad Elf". He was first spotted afk near Marchmont's tower. I say there and watched him for a few minutes, he with his red shirt. I had more than enough time to kill him, and then he moved. I watched him walking towards town, he was moving slow. I knew he was loaded but I took pity on him for some unknown reason. I followed him right up to the bank.
Yesterday, another tower and another afk toon, this time in Light Armor. This time I decided not to wait, I shot him. He did not move. I killed him, looted him (20 cp and assorted crap) and took my 1200 Rep hit in exchange.
I decided the second scenario was a better choice, for both me and the victim. When I am solo, I'll take solo afk kills from now on. I wouldn't expect anything else to happen to me if I were foolishly afk out in the wilderness.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here are some of the issues I have seen:
#1 - People fail to inform others that they are being attacked. You should always let someone know that you are being attacked, prefaced by your current location.
#2 - Settlements get attacked, they don't inform any others that they are being attacked. You should always maintain people in voice comms specifically for this reason.
#3 - People are being baited. When the bad guys show up in your settlement and taunt you, you can pretty much ignore the taunting and just pay attention if they are willing to flag themselves to the Thornguards. There isn't a whole lot they can do, if you don't leave, and some of you run and run and run after them.
#4 - People get themselves flagged. Do you know what happens when you turn red? You die, because they can tab target you, immediately, and focus fire. Don't be the first to attack, you must maintain discipline at all times, and when someone breaks it, you must not avenge them or help them, let them die and understand they made a mistake.
#5 - When you die, if you are alone or outnumbered, NEVER GO BACK TO YOUR HUSK. I see sooooooo many people make this mistake, over and over and over again, and then they blame others for griefing. Sir/Ma'am, you have griefed yourself.
#6 - I see a huge amount of people in PvP, get super spread out, then die one by one by one. Use discipline when moving from point to point! Don't sprint when you are in a large group, just jog (normal movement), and when you stop EVERYONE stealth! Stay together! Call out targets! If you can stay together, then its easier to maneuver, to help others in your party(ies).
#7 - I see people healing others, I see people healing themselves, and BAM debuffed or knocked down, do you know why? Because we have an entire group of healers out there using reactives. DO NOT USE REACTIVES while buffing/healing, if conditions are met on your target you can and will do damage, debuff, or worse.
#8 - A lot of you are upset that the enemy can use your bank while not being flagged, or even come into town, you can do something about it. If you have around 6 people, you can body block them. Jump on their heads, surround them, they can't get out, so if they want to taunt you and use your bank, show them you aren't going to let them leave if they do. This can lead to griefing, so be wary of using the tactic all the time, but if they are being a jerk, its valid.
Here are some of the issues I have seen:
#3 - People are being baited. When the bad guys show up in your settlement and taunt you, you can pretty much ignore the taunting ...
Last night someone (who may or may not have felt taunted) fired on one of us in front of the Thornguards.
That ended well. :-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's some significant misinformation going around about a non-aggresson pact between Golgotha and [edited] Blackwood Glade. It would behoove the BG leadership to reexamine the nature of any agreements and clarify matters to their membership.
On an unrelated note, announcing in hex chat that you're about to go load yourself up with high-value loot and run around with it solo is not the best way to maintain your equipment durability.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here are some of the issues I have seen:
#3 - People are being baited. When the bad guys show up in your settlement and taunt you, you can pretty much ignore the taunting ...
Last night someone (who may or may not have felt taunted) fired on one of us in front of the Thornguards.
That ended well. :-)
One of the most satisfying experiences I've had in game was running back to Keeper's Pass after chasing ne'er-do-wells for a bit and seeing Tyv Blodvaerd (Bluddwolf) and someone else flag themselves right in front of the Thornguards when they attacked me. The fact that Bluddwolf decided to run back into town while still flagged to me was icing on the cake.
I love watching bandits die :)
Here are some of the issues I have seen:
#3 - People are being baited. When the bad guys show up in your settlement and taunt you, you can pretty much ignore the taunting ...
Last night someone (who may or may not have felt taunted) fired on one of us in front of the Thornguards.
That ended well. :-)
One of the most satisfying experiences I've had in game was running back to Keeper's Pass after chasing ne'er-do-wells for a bit and seeing Tyv Blodvaerd (Bluddwolf) and someone else flag themselves right in front of the Thornguards when they attacked me. The fact that Bluddwolf decided to run back into town while still flagged to me was icing on the cake.
I love watching bandits die :)
Me too... seriously.
Conflict is entertainment, and I could watch a reel of my own combat bloopers for entertainment.