So...
Has anyone tried this?
Lv 3 rogue, lv 17 magus.
You get 6d6 sneak and your familiar gets 6d6 sneak per attack. And you could flank with it (Mauler increases size in battle mode)
Mauler would mean a high strength for combat damage as well.
All your spell points could be used to augment the familiar, since you wouldn't need them for much else...
Thoughts?
There are only two animal familiars which seem appropriate for this- the compy and the goat. This is because these two are the only ones that get anything near even a 'mediocre' strength after taking battle form (most familiars have 1-3 str, which is 9 at best after turning, and gets to 15 VERY late game).
These two end up with 14 base strength...which isn't good, but can grow to ‘acceptable’. They only have 1 natural attack each, which isn't the best for combat. They also cannot take any more feats (only beast bond witches and that new fighter archetype get around that problem). Anyway, they are never going to be useful for much besides flanking (they are rather squishy, quite honestly)
Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
And you arre forgoing your ability to use your arcane pool to enhance your weapon. An ability that is prolly worth more DPR than Sneak Attack anyhow.
If not 100% then very close to.
Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
Not if you take a rogue class with it, then it's just normal sneak attacks.
There are only two animal familiars which seem appropriate for this- the compy and the goat. This is because these two are the only ones that get anything near even a 'mediocre' strength after taking battle form (most familiars have 1-3 str, which is 9 at best after turning, and gets to 15 VERY late game).
These two end up with 14 base strength...which isn't good, but can grow to ‘acceptable’. They only have 1 natural attack each, which isn't the best for combat. They also cannot take any more feats (only beast bond witches and that new fighter archetype get around that problem). Anyway, they are never going to be useful for much besides flanking (they are rather squishy, quite honestly)
Improved familiars like the Cat sith, and the other elven version Start at st 8 and 9, and get 3 attacks as well as other spell abilities.
making it more than worth while.http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/cat-sith
Also 3 attacks regardless of ST when 2d6 sneak is added makes a huge difference.
Even at lv 3 I would get my attack, a spell, and the familiar would get 3 attacks. (assuming any familiar with 3 attacks) Total of 4 attacks with a +2d6 to damage... every time with flanking. At lv 3 that is pretty devastating.
Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
Lastly all the spell points can either be used for arcana or to power your familiar up with spell like abilities.
Honestly this combo looks really powerful potentially, and I can just buy/craft magic weapons. So wasting pool points on it always seemed like a waste to me.
It's not at all obvious to me that the familiar's Sneak Attack progression ever increases from classes other than Carnivalist. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Not if you take a rogue class with it, then it's just normal sneak attacks.Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
At 1st level, a greensting slayer can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to add 1d6 points of sneak attack damage to his next melee attack that round. must meet all of the usual prerequisites for making a sneak attack, as the rogue class feature. For every 4 levels beyond 1st, the amount of sneak attack damage dealt by this ability increases by 1d6 (to a maximum of 5d6 at 17th level). If a greensting slayer gets a sneak attack from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.
A greensting slayer cannot use his arcane pool to enhance his weapon.
This ability modifies the arcane pool ability.
In short you are wrong -- it is still only one one attack, yes the damage stacks with your other sneak attack but it still only on your next attack -- after that attack all you get is your "normal" sneak attack damage.
Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
Lastly all the spell points can either be used for arcana or to power your familiar up with spell like abilities.
Honestly this combo looks really powerful potentially, and I can just buy/craft magic weapons. So wasting pool points on it always seemed like a waste to me.
Yes but if you use it for those abilities or the familiar -- you don't get the sneak attack dice unless you use your arcane pool to get them.
You don't actually have sneak attack -- you have a means of spending a point as a swift action to add sneak attack dice to one attack, and these dice stack with any other sneak attack damage you do. The language about stacking is necessary because without it multiple pools of sneak attack dice would not stack just like having channel energy from more than one source does not stack.
It's not at all obvious to me that the familiar's Sneak Attack progression ever increases from classes other than Carnivalist. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That part might work if you have the sneak attack class ability (say from the vivisectionist archetype) that says it stacks with other classes for your sneak attack dice.
The problem is greensting slayer doesn't actually have sneak attack. He has arcane pool that he can spend to add sneak attack dice to his next melee attack.
It only states the damage stacks with actual sneak attack dice because without that language you would only get one or the other (just like having more than one pool of channel energy or smite from more than one class).
There are only two animal familiars which seem appropriate for this- the compy and the goat. This is because these two are the only ones that get anything near even a 'mediocre' strength after taking battle form (most familiars have 1-3 str, which is 9 at best after turning, and gets to 15 VERY late game).
These two end up with 14 base strength...which isn't good, but can grow to ‘acceptable’. They only have 1 natural attack each, which isn't the best for combat. They also cannot take any more feats (only beast bond witches and that new fighter archetype get around that problem). Anyway, they are never going to be useful for much besides flanking (they are rather squishy, quite honestly)
Improved familiars like the Cat sith, and the other elven version Start at st 8 and 9, and get 3 attacks as well as other spell abilities.
making it more than worth while.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/cat-sithAlso 3 attacks regardless of ST when 2d6 sneak is added makes a huge difference.
Even at lv 3 I would get my attack, a spell, and the familiar would get 3 attacks. (assuming any familiar with 3 attacks) Total of 4 attacks with a +2d6 to damage... every time with flanking. At lv 3 that is pretty devastating.
Pookas and imps start with 10 str, get to 16 with their battle form, and they can use normal weapons (armor can also be used if you get armor check penalty to 0). Plus, both can go invisible.
...I've looked into the idea, yeah. I was a bit conservative with familiar choices since there is disagreement about whether mauler applies to improved familiars (I am of the mind where I think the fact that it goes on so much about removing speech would largely indicate improved familiars).
Not if you take a rogue class with it, then it's just normal sneak attacks.Greensting magus is a trap -- you have to spend an arcane pool point and a swift action to gain sneak attack on one attack a round.
That is a horrible deal.
In short you are wrong -- it is still only one one attack, yes the damage stacks with your other sneak attack but it still only on your next attack -- after that attack all you get is your "normal" sneak attack damage.At 1st level, a greensting slayer can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to add 1d6 points of sneak attack damage to his next melee attack that round. must meet all of the usual prerequisites for making a sneak attack, as the rogue class feature. For every 4 levels beyond 1st, the amount of sneak attack damage dealt by this ability increases by 1d6 (to a maximum of 5d6 at 17th level). If a greensting slayer gets a sneak attack from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.
A greensting slayer cannot use his arcane pool to enhance his weapon.
This ability modifies the arcane pool ability.
Yup I see what you are saying. I misread it and took it to be the same as a rogues sneak attack ability.
It's not at all obvious to me that the familiar's Sneak Attack progression ever increases from classes other than Carnivalist. Correct me if I'm wrong.That part might work if you have the sneak attack class ability (say from the vivisectionist archetype) that says it stacks with other classes for your sneak attack dice.
The problem is greensting slayer doesn't actually have sneak attack. He has arcane pool that he can spend to add sneak attack dice to his next melee attack.
It only states the damage stacks with actual sneak attack dice because without that language you would only get one or the other (just like having more than one pool of channel energy or smite from more than one class).
Every class that has sneak attack dice, other than this one, says has a clause that says the sneak attack stacks. Assassins, Tricksters, Ninjas, it all stacks. So it's weird to me that they would put this limitation on "1 attack" I wonder if it will make it into an errata, as it does not fit the theme of the other classes with similar abilities...
Edit: just for reference.... "Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th). If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack."
Yeah I wanted to make sure we both understood why that line was there (because without it as we both agree they wouldn't stack) -- I'm glad you see that it is in every point.
I do wish that Greensting Slayer was a better option than it is.
Yeah I wanted to make sure we both understood why that line was there (because without it as we both agree they wouldn't stack) -- I'm glad you see that it is in every point.
I do wish that Greensting Slayer was a better option than it is.
Well my GM is reasonable, and I am sure we can come up with a better option... But I hate not using RAW.
There was an archetype in wayfinder (the fan-based periodical that comes out) that traded something for actual sneak attack iirc. I believe it's up in third party archetypes on the d20pfsrd site.
Might be more the speed you are looking for.