Not sure if this should be here or in the Rules section, so please feel free to move if needed.
I have a PC that was attacked by a Worg and has been gravely wounded. One of the other PC's came along and shot at arrow at the worg just as it dropped the first PC to -4 HP. The worg was then deeply wounded (from previous wounds and that arrow) and decided to run away into the night.
Second PC has decided not to stabilize the first PC but instead chase after the worg (it matches his character actually very well).
He is going to follow the worg through the night until he finds and kills it and then will go back to check on the other PC (who will probably be dead by then).
So, my question is how should I do that track and chase? The PC is a human slayer. He has already made his first survival check to find the trail but he is on foot and can't move at the speed of the worg.
Questions:
1. He will need to make a Survival check every hour to maintain the trail, yes?
2. How would you handle this situation? The worg is smart enough to keep on going and could know that it is being tracked.
Environment:
1. It is at night. Overcast.
2. The ground is considered very soft.
3. It is only a few hours after dark so there is almost the whole night ahead.
Suggestions are welcome. Thanks!
The worg is solitary, so it doesn't have a pack around.
Second, the PC isn't really abandoning his own "pack". He came up on the fight and attacked the worg but he has no attachment to the fallen elf PC. He thinks the wounded PC is a liability and that the worg will return and attack unless he goes ahead and tracks it and kills it.
The answers to all of the above are in the rules for tracking and survival. You're better off working them out yourself than having us spoon-feed the answer to you.
I wasn't that clear on the Survival check every hour so wanted clarification on that. Looks like I was right.
I'm not really interested in having the rules spoon-fed to me so I apologize for not being clear there.
I'm really more interested to see if you would just steer the PC to realizing that it's a lost cause in tracking the worg this way and that he should return to the other character or just play it out following the rules to see what happens and ultimately having that other PC die.
That's really more of what I am interested in. And I know, ultimately it's up to me but I'm curious about how others would handle the situation.
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I second LazarX's first comment.
The second PC is an idiot and deserves what he is about to receive. Best outcome would be for Second PC to die horribly, eaten by wolves, while the rest of the PCs just barely save PC one from dying.
Second PC is metagaming the GM. He expects that everything he encounters will be level-appropriate, and that the GM is unwilling to kill his character. You say the worg is alone (weird for a pack animal!), but how can he know that? It hasn't crossed his MMO-addled brain that the GM would let his PC be torn to shreds by a whole pack of wolves, because ... err ... it doesn't work that way in video games. GM: to disabuse him of this notion you will need to kill his character. The way this guy's thought processes clearly work, a 'warning' won't stick : he'll sense your unwillingness to kill his character,and keep assumeing he'll not have to face consequences, no matter how bad his decision making.
Worgs are typically pack hunters. They were lucky they only encountered the single scout. He's obviously going to find the pack.
I foresee something like this outcome:
* Wounded worg tries to run run away, but is bleeding and slow. Let's out a mighty howl of despair as it senses the approaching hunter.
* Worg puts on a burst of speed and opens the distance, but hunter can tell it's wounds will soon slow it down.
* Rest of wolf pack arrives on the scene. His only chance is to immediately take to a tree, as Worgs can't climb trees. If he does anything but instantly flee to a place the worgs can't reach, have them tear him apart.
* Worgs are a lot smarter than wolves. Are the worgs truly alone? Worgs know they can't climb trees. Goblinoids can climb trees, and often cooperate with worgs.
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I am actually surprised at the hostility that Magda is showing
"Second PC has decided not to stabilize the first PC but instead chase after the worg (it matches his character actually very well). "
It seems like, at least to the DM's knowledge, that he is not metagaming, instead following his character. Whilst abandoning his comrade was a horrible act, it shall be punished by player animosity, this is a teamwork game. And if the other players are fine with it, then so be it.
The DM has specified this is a solo warg. Easily explained by a possible attempt to overwhelm it's former pack leader.
The above advice for tracking is wonderful advice, it's also a possibility that instead of running away all the way, the Warg is desperate for a meal, and has no pack to run from and does not wish to die whilst sleeping. So thus decides to fight him. Which could lead to an epic standoff, and let the dice fall as they will.
If you don't want to kill the other PC have the above mentioned goblins find the wounded PC first and patch him up. Goblins can probably find a use for an adventurer either as food or a crude weapon for to throw at some monster they are avoiding in some local caves or something. As for the other guy let 'em chase after the worg, either the pack comes and he ends up in a tree until the goblins capture him too or go total survivalist/rambo on the encounter, check out endurance rules for forced marching etc to see how far the worg can get before it becomes exhausted.
I am actually surprised at the hostility that Magda is showing
"Second PC has decided not to stabilize the first PC but instead chase after the worg (it matches his character actually very well). "
I was surprised too, but if you think about it, the advice was very good if the player is indeed meta-gaming. If this is the exception to the rule and isn't what it looks like, there's no need to create an adversarial situation over nothing, but Magda's post still has a lot of good points.
Seems like the OP's group is getting along fine though, and everyone still read the OP as a "help me deal with problem player" post.
My advice: You as GM know if that worg was alone KingmakerDM. If he was alone, even if that's unusual for a wort, don't just make his whole pack appear as a "gotcha" moment to punish the PC.
Instead just have the worg try to ambush the lone PC.
Great thoughts everyone and thanks for responding.
I should have given further back-story.
The worg was a random encounter and on the 1d4, I rolled a 1. So there is just one that attacked a group of two PCs while they were riding along a forest. Both PCs were 1st level characters. Now, I had previously warned this group of 6 PCs not to go out in pairs of 2 but they did. So, I'm not concerned that this Worg is too tough for their 2 1st level characters.
The worg already killed one of the PCs (a halfling monk). During that encounter, the elf fighter decided to run away to save her skin instead of stay and perhaps kill the worg and save the other PC. So, she is actually getting what SHE deserves. The Worg killed the halfling the next round and then the worg started following her to kill her.
I allowed the player who lost the halfling monk to roll up another character and he went for this human slayer. He came upon where the worg finally caught up with the elf and had attacked her. The worg was taking her out when the human slayer attacked. He deeply wounded the worg who took off and now he is tracking. He has no connection whatsoever to the elf so he's not really abandoning a party member.
Oh. I was completely wrong. Sorry. Let's hope the dice fall in a way that brings karma.
No, you responded out of the information that was given and based on very reasonable assumptions about normal party behavior. It was my fault for not supplying more of that back-story to help out.
I appreciate your comments very much.
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If that worg survives you should advance it a hit die or give it a class level.
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I'm really more interested to see if you would just steer the PC to realizing that it's a lost cause in tracking the worg this way and that he should return to the other character or just play it out following the rules to see what happens and ultimately having that other PC die.
Speed is going to be the big issue here. The worg is as fast as a horse and covers 5 miles per hour, while the slayer covers 3 miles per hour (at a -5 tracking penalty for moving at full speed). After travelling through the night for 8 hours, the worg will have covered 40 miles; the human will have traveled 24 miles and is 16 miles behind, or 5-6 hours more of walking. If he tries to keep going at that point he's likely to walk himself into unconsciousness through forced march.
And that's assuming that he doesn't lose time on failed tracking checks - which he will, since even at an 11 DC he'll have at most a +3 bonus after the -5 penalty and should fail at least a third of the checks.
There is a very slim chance the slayer could make most of his survival checks, succeed at 5 or more Constitution checks with DCs increasing into the low 20s, come across a sleeping worg who thought he'd lost the human, and kill it. It's much more likely he'll simply lose the worg - or that it will get enough of a head start to take an 8-hour rest and then tear apart the tired slayer coming up behind it.
This kind of thing takes a horse or a higher level character.
Invite the worg to join the party!
Great feedback everyone. I appreciate you all taking the time to offer your thoughts.
No, the Worg isn't metagaming... :) But I do like the idea of it joining the party! That would be interesting.
Thanks again everyone.
Uhhm: Does the slayer have something that produce some light? He's going right in the deep of the forest and is getting darker and darker...
Invite the worg to join the party!
Bonus points for being posted by someone with "Paladin" in the handle.
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Echoing Weirdo, Worg is probably faster than Slayer, and if the Worg decides to move all night, then the Slayer has no hope of catching up, even if Slayer succeeds on the Survival checks.
By RAW, HP damage has virtually no influence on how long you can keep moving. If you walk for more than 8 hours, you'll eventually hit the forced march rules and start taking nonlethal damage, but that's about it.
But as a GM, I feel it's reasonable for the Worg to give up running away and to find some hideout and lick wounds. For me, it kinda strains versimilitude seeing a greatly wounded Worg fleeing in the woods for a full 8 hours, even if it's permissible by RAW. The Worg might not believe that the human prey is exceptionally good at following trails and is willing to go a night's length to hunt the Worg down. Especially so if your game setting has the majority of humans as low level commoners.
The Worg isn't metagaming right?
That's possible. It's also possible the worg could run ahead a little way and then wait in ambush for a bit to see if it's being followed. That could turn out badly for the slayer, especially if he's tripped in a surprise round.
Personally, if I were alone and wounded I'd want to put as much distance between myself and armed pursuers as possible if I thought there was even a chance they were going to keep chasing me all night, so I don't think it's metagaming for the worg to do the same - though it certainly shouldn't be pushing itself into a forced march. Now, the worg is probably more aggressive than I am but if the slayer was responsible for heavily wounding it, the worg probably doesn't want to tangle with him again.
Normally I'd say that after a round or two of chasing the slayer should turn back and see if the elf had friends on her tail who might back him up against the worg - he's counting on outlasting it so a few minutes' delay won't make a difference. But since the rest of the party appears to be not just lagging behind but elsewhere, the slayer will still have to decide whether he feels it's worth the risk (and possible waste of time) chasing the worg alone.
EDIT: Keep in mind that while you know the worg is alone, the slayer shouldn't.
It is true that this should work better in real life, where wounds slow you down well before they kill you and humans are actually better at distance running than most animals. If you want to represent that in your game I'd suggest adding a house-rule that impedes overland travel while heavily wounded (less than half HP) and then stick with it - in which case it might come back to bit the players later. (For the marathon angle I expect you could play with the Endurance feat since it's highly trained runners who beat horses.)
i'm right with boring7, that's why a teleport could save your life...LONG LIVE THE WIZARDS!
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@Magda Luckbender, you're welcome.
@boring7, it's not that you can't run away but that it's often very difficult or relies on luck or higher-level abilities. Teleportation can make running away easy. At lower levels Haste can give the entire party enough of a speed boost to escape (as long as the caster's a bit of a distance from the threat). Depending on the party's abilities some obstacles like difficult terrain, rivers, or cliffs may slow pursuers down more than the party. Stealth can also do it if you can duck out of sight.
Might have been a bad GM call to have the worg chase the elf, but if it was only lightly injured I don't see what would have made for a better moment to strike than the elf being alone (before the slayer showed up) and frightened. The lesson here is "don't split the party." You can teach "it's OK to run" another time.