Does Make Whole really repair only 1d4 points of damage?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Here's the spell in question:

Make Whole wrote:

This spell functions as mending, except that it repairs 1d6 points of damage per level when cast on a construct creature (maximum 5d6).

Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way. When make whole is used on a construct creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell did not allow spell resistance.

The important part is "works like mending" – the except part only applies to construct creatures.

Mending wrote:
This spell repairs damaged objects, restoring 1d4 hit points to the object. If the object has the broken condition, this condition is removed if the object is restored to at least half its original hit points. All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function. Magic items can be repaired by this spell, but you must have a caster level equal to or higher than that of the object. Magic items that are destroyed (at 0 hit points or less) can be repaired with this spell, but this spell does not restore their magic abilities. This spell does not affect creatures (including constructs). This spell has no effect on objects that have been warped or otherwise transmuted, but it can still repair damage done to such items.

So, I can see nothing that would allow make whole to actually repair more that the 1d4 damage. The only difference would be that make whole could fix bigger items than mending, and also ones that have been destroyed.

But this would also mean that a full plate armor that somehow had acquired the broken condition (say at 20 of its 45 hp) would need approximately 10 castings of make whole to fully repaired. It could even fix a destroyed full plate armor with 0 hp, but would take about 20 castings.

Is that really how it is intended to be?


The big difference I see is this:
Mending: "Magic items that are destroyed (at 0 hit points or less) can be repaired with this spell, but this spell does NOT restore their magic abilities."

Make Whole: "Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item."

So, Mending can't fix a magic item and still have the magic items properties intact. Once you fix it with Make Whole, however, it looks like you can repair it the rest of the way with Mending.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

... unless it weighs more than 1 lb./level


Zaister wrote:
... unless it weighs more than 1 lb./level

Ooh, Missed that part.


The thing is, you use a combination of the cantrip and the actual spell in combination to repair things. No, this doesn't lead to speedy repairs.

Often, destroyed magical items are lost because you can quickly hit a point where the caster level of the items is above your limit. For instance, an 11th caster level item can simply never be restored after being destroyed.

Grand Lodge

Claxon wrote:

The thing is, you use a combination of the cantrip and the actual spell in combination to repair things. No, this doesn't lead to speedy repairs.

Often, destroyed magical items are lost because you can quickly hit a point where the caster level of the items is above your limit. For instance, an 11th caster level item can simply never be restored after being destroyed.

Not true. There are plenty of ways to boost CL above 20.

Liberty's Edge

Claxon wrote:

The thing is, you use a combination of the cantrip and the actual spell in combination to repair things. No, this doesn't lead to speedy repairs.

Often, destroyed magical items are lost because you can quickly hit a point where the caster level of the items is above your limit. For instance, an 11th caster level item can simply never be restored after being destroyed.

This doesn't work on big items, since Mending has a tight size limit that precludes even a breastplate, much less full plate.

Also, Greater Make Whole is a thing now thanks to the Technology Guide, and it works if you CL >= the CL of the item rather than twice. Sadly, it is also still only 1d4 points to items.


Jeff Merola wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The thing is, you use a combination of the cantrip and the actual spell in combination to repair things. No, this doesn't lead to speedy repairs.

Often, destroyed magical items are lost because you can quickly hit a point where the caster level of the items is above your limit. For instance, an 11th caster level item can simply never be restored after being destroyed.

Not true. There are plenty of ways to boost CL above 20.

I realize there are ways to increase caster level above 20, but those are usually very specific methods that only increase a school or a specific spell of something along those lines.

In general, most characters aren't going to have more than ~21 maybe a 22 for casting Make Whole. Mostly because people aren't going to waste the other tricks on Make Whole instead of another spell.

And apparently now, Greater Make Whole is now a thing. Which is very reasonable, since the half caster level thing was a big hit. With Greater Make whole you should be able to fix pretty much anything.

Edit: Wait wait wait...Greater Make Whole is mythic, not in the technology guide. So, I'm not going to count that.

Anyways, I will cede that I shouldn't have said never, but rather a practical impossibility.

Grand Lodge

Orange Prism Ioun Stone, Bead of Karma, and Death Knell will get you to CL 26 on every spell you cast. Throw that stone in a wayfinder and you can get up to CL 28 on a good roll.

There are other universal boosts, but they're more uncommon, like the Arcane subdomain and the Witch's Coven hex.

Also, Greater Make Whole is in the Tech Guide as a nonmythic spell.

Shadow Lodge

Quote:
Edit: Wait wait wait...Greater Make Whole is mythic, not in the technology guide. So, I'm not going to count that.

Perhaps you should check that again.


Hmmm.....that's interesting. The PRD search feature doesn't do a good job of showing that's there. In fact, upon a second look I think there is only one link that will give you a tangentially related information about that version of Greater Make Whole.

As for the karma bead, that only appears to work for divine spell casters. I guess you could use it with UMD. And wasting the Bead of Karma for casting make whole... a circumspect use of such an item, though if it meant the difference between buying a new item of more than 45,800 gp cost then I guess you are saving money even if you have to buy a new strand. And even with those you are looking at caster level 14 items (before Greater Make Whole). Really, the existance of Greater Make whole really makes the whole argument rather moot. Since at worst you might need to wait a few levels to get the magic restored to the item.

A temporary loss (perhaps devastating to the character) but something a real person would probably do.

Grand Lodge

"Wasting"? The Bead of Karma is useable once per day. Only the summoning bead is one use.


Whoops mea culpa.

Anyways, the whole conversation is moot with Greater Make Whole.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Still only 1d4 for items, though, even with greater make whole.

Repairing a ship which has hundreds, if not thousands of hit points according to the Skull & Shackles Players Guide with magic might actually take longer than manual repair. Weird.

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