I seem to remember that flying creatures with a medium or heavy load got a reduce on their maneuverability but the only drawbacks of a medium or heavy load, on a flying creature, that i can find are the usual (speed reduction, skill penalties etc.).
Do i remember incorrectly or is there a rule that i can't find?
It's worse than that for flying mounts - they can't fly at all with a medium or heavy load, by a strange chain of rules.
A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.
Flying mounts can't fly in medium or heavy barding.
That is not correct, I wish people would stop drawing a line between those two since no direct line between them exists.
Armor is not Barding but Barding is Armor. (Same concept as "a Mammal is not a Monkey while a Monkey is a Mammal".)
Because of this, the carrying capacity rule does not apply to the barding rule.
Also note: Flying creatures can wear medium or heavy ARMOR and fly normally (at reduced speeds). It requires medium or heavy BARDING (a subset of Armor that only applies to mounts) for them to be unable to fly.
The difference between Barding and Armor is 'Is the creature a mount? If yes, then it is Barding. If no, then it is not Barding.'.
This has come up in multiple threads.
Leo1925, yes, medium/heavy encumbrance counts as medium/heavy armor for rules that restrict medium/heavy armor. Things like reduced movement speed, reduced run speed, and the inability to use acrobatics to avoid AoOs all apply appropriately.
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Gauss, that's semantics.
Medium Barding is Medium Armor. A Medium Load counts as Medium Armor for purposes of restrictions. A flying creature can't fly with Medium Armor. Therefore a flying creature cannot fly with a medium load.
I understand that the rules do not come out and say this but the logic line is pretty clear.
EDIT: Ah I see what you are saying. I think I answered before you finished refining your post. I see where you are coming from a RAW perspective you are right, though I'm fairly certain from a RAI perspective that flying creatures were not meant to be able to fly in medium or heavy armor OR barding.
That Crazy Alchemist,
Then how do you explain the Solar Angel? It is wearing Heavy Armor and has a fly speed reduced from 150 to 100.
By the Armor=Barding interpretation it should not be able to fly.
Barding is Armor, Armor is NOT Barding.
Edit: yeah, I gotta stop refining my posts after I hit submit. :)
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Hmm good point.
I was actually just searching for examples to see if there was precedence, hadn't thought to look at the angels. You are quite correct good sir.
Edit: yeah, I gotta stop refining my posts after I hit submit. :)
S'alright I do it all the time, best way to get it formatted the way you want :)
Extra bonus round:
In 3.5 flying creatures were specifically banned from wearing Medium/Heavy armor (not just barding) and flying. That ban was removed (while the Barding rule was kept).
In 3.5 the Solar did not have (any) armor, in Pathfinder it has Heavy Armor and the fly speed was appropriately reduced in the armor.
It is pretty clear the RAI is now flying creatures can fly in Medium/Heavy Armor but not Medium/Heavy Barding.
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Ah I was wondering why I thought that for so long. Still after a year of playing Pathfinder, my 10+ years of hard DnD 3.5 rears it's ugly head at me now and then.
Just last night I was playing Society and had an argument with one of my players about the Mirror Image spell and how I said you still had to actually hit the images' AC 10+Dex before they disappeared. I felt very sheepish after we looked it up. And I'm our Society groups resident "Rules Guy"...was quite embarrassing, apparently I'm not very good at my job lol...
Hence why you get mithril breastplate barding. That extra 3 points of AC with Full Plate doesn't mean a whole lot given high end monsters or full on NPC attack murder hobos carrying potions of bull's strength and true strike. And those are just cheap potions.
I did some checking, it appears my memory on 3.5 was hazy (go figure). 3.5 prohibited creatures from flying with more than a light load (MM p312).
It did not prohibit them from flying with medium/heavy armor (MM p312) so long as they were still at a light load.
It prohibited mounts from flying with medium/heavy barding (PHB p131) or under medium/heavy load (DMG p205).
In any case, the Pathfinder rules removed these restrictions except for the barding restriction which I feel is just a remnant that was forgotten.
Thank you all, especially Gauss who dug up the 3.5 rule, i was remembering either an inability to fly or reduced maneuverability (reduced maneuverability seemed more "logical" than inability to fly).
Anyway thank you again for clearing this up for me.