GM requests advice regarding a certain artifact (possible SPOILERS)

[Foozil]

So, I wanted to ask how other GMs handled the discovery of the Mantis Blade. Even if you haven't run the adventure, but have read it, or have any suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate hearing them.

Here's my situation:

I have a party of all good characters, two of whom are chaotic good. They all knew that the Red Mantis faction was going to Saventh-Yhi to find some important religious item, and for that reason they had not been deeply troubled by them. My players figured the Mantis were only there for one reason and didn't really reflect much of a threat. Even though the Mantis faction proved to be the greatest threat during the "race to the ruins" (I played up the "race" part of this and the Mantis were the fastest and came closest to beating the PCs to the city), they never really worried about having to compete with them for discovery. They were not pleased by the Mantis being there, but they were far more concerned by the Aspis, who were making more regular efforts to sabotage and undermine their Pathfinder faction.

So, as they were exploring the city, my players mostly avoided any confrontation with the Mantis - I played them as being more of a secretive, sneaky, surgical-strike operation that wasn't as actively trying to loot the city or interfere with the other factions, the way the Aspis were. Anyway, as a result my players figured that if they came across this "religious item" that the Mantis wanted, they'd give it to them in order to maintain the peace, figuring that once they had the item the Mantis would just leave Saventh-Yhi.

Their plans changed, however, when they found the Mantis Blade and realized what it was. They are all horrified by the arrogance of the item, the fact that it is a lawful-evil weapon for "slaying all" things. I may have really aroused their fears by playing up the Mantis Blade's personality. I figured that an artifact like this might enjoy slaying things, but that it was probably tired of killing off measly boggards, vegepygmies, and the occasional human savage. I thought it might be tired of having been stuck in this backwater and so I played it as really desiring to get out into the larger world where it could be used to slay more significant figures and thus play a role in bringing major change to entire kingdoms. I played up this attitude and megalomaniac desire when it interacted with them and they didn't like it. Now, they really don't know what to do with this evil artifact and want to destroy it (not easy for a group of good characters, based on the rules for how to destroy it, although they don't know this yet). They steadfastly don't want to allow this item to fall into the hands of a group of assassins who will happily use it to go slay people. They are also worried that if the Mantis ever realizes that they have it that they'll be under constant assault by them (true) and they worry that it's telepathic ability will allow it to draw people who want to use it to kill. Essentially, they see this as the equivalent of being Sauron's "One Ring" (an artifact that will give great powers to evil beings and which is actively seeking to fall into the hands of such an evil being) and they see it as their mission to do whatever is necessary to destroy it. I've searched the forums and seen that other parties chose to negotiate to sell the item, but that is not going to work for my players and their good characters.

My dilemma is that this seems to have the potential to derail the entire adventure. As far as they're concerned, dealing with this artifact is the job of great (good) heroes and they can't ignore this burden. As a result, they're less inclined to continue exploring Saventh-Yhi (they have not yet encountered Sozothala, which might give them yet another great evil to deal with). So, what advice do you have for how to deal with this and keep my players interested in Saventh-Yhi and its underground caverns? Any advice on how I might combine the tasks of the remaining adventures in the AP with the goal of trying to destroy this evil artifact? At this point I've told them that they're going to need to do some research about the artifact before they can proceed. This has bought me some time to figure out how I should run things from here, by getting them to continue to explore the city, but with their researches more directed toward learning more about the Blade than about the secrets of the city itself.

I know this is perhaps a long post, but any advice would be great. I know that working the blade into the storyline would have great potential to make this a really memorable AP from here on out, but I figured that the collective efforts of the boards might have more ideas than I can come up with on my own.

I look forward to your ideas!

[Supperman]

The mantis blade can be destroyed by killing nine rightful monarchs, would your group be up for tyrant hunting? Also, Achaekek can't attack deities, and the blade is his artifact. Maybe using it on Ydersius at the end battle could destroy it?

[justaworm]

Changing the method of destroying the blade to something achievable within the context of the AP is probably the best way to proceed.

Something involving Ydersius, the Serpentfolk, or the Red Mantis would be great.
Like ...

- A purification ritual involving a drop of a deity's blood, dispel evil, and wish
- A Red Mantis who willingly allows themselves to be decapitated by the blade
- Immersed in the blood of 10 different Red Mantis

Also, a decent Knowledge Arcana/Spellcraft to learn that Mage's Disjunction can always be used on any artifact. Then their goal would be to become powerful enough to cast it, assuming the mage will go along with the plan. You could always introduce some obscure item in the serpentfolk treasury that can be used to increase the chance of MD working to 2% per caster level.

Other ways to "deal with it before it derails the AP":

(1) Teleport to civilization and turn over the blade to trusted source for safer keeping
(2) Keeping it tucked away in a BoH should keep it somewhat safe -
(3) Call upon an appropriate Planar Ally of good to take the blade back to its home plane
(4) 'Wish' could also be used in some fashion
(5) You could let the Red Mantis become aware of the blade and use it as a focal point for a showdown against them. Once the Red Mantis are defeated, the blade should be safe.

*Spoilers* However, ...:

However, I will bet that once they are aware that a long dead deity of the Serpent-folk is about to return to conquer the surface world, then their focus may be changed somewhat. You could just speed this revelation along faster. Letting the blade just sit pretty in the BoH with them keeping it out of the hands of the evil that would use it may be enough. Though, if they could stomach it, they may even consider using it as a means to secure the Red Mantis' help in the final invasion.

[long-staff sixpenny striker]

justaworm wrote:

Changing the method of destroying the blade to something achievable within the context of the AP is probably the best way to proceed.

This is what is happening in my campaign...

spoiler:

The players were wary of the Mantis Blade from the start. Right now it is stowed in a player's handy haversack. This player is a Magus with an intelligent sword who is hellbent on destroying other intelligent weapons. I changed the description of the Mantis Blade so that it reads "nine rightful leaders," so the leaders of the other factions, Ossond, the Radiant Muse, and the mayors/leaders of towns they teleport to for supplies are fair game.

[trellian]

My players put it in a Bag of Holding. I'm not really sure what mayhem the weapon can cause while placed there. It seems sort of cheap for the players to avoid the issue though.. anyone else put it in a Bag of Holding? Can the weapon influence other people while inside a BoH?

[justaworm]

I would say that almost definitely "no" while just sitting in the bag as
(1) it is nondimensional space within the bag
and (2) "Magic items placed inside the bag do not offer any benefit to the character carrying the bag."

However, you could argue that any time the bag is opened to retrieve an item, the blade's empathic ability should work, which then opens up other possibilities.

Empathy:"Every intelligent magic item begins with the ability to see and hear within 30 feet, as well as the ability to communicate empathically with its owner. Empathy only allows the item to encourage or discourage certain actions through urges and emotions. Additional forms of communication and better senses increase the item's cost and Ego score, as noted on Table: Intelligent Item Senses and Communication."

So, if they wanted to keep it safe in a BoH for all time, then they need to not also use the BoH at all.

[CorvusMask]

I understand that this is old thread by month or two, so I'm little bit too late to reply to this, but...

..Umm, isn't that characterization of the sword off?

I mean, it is sacred relic to mantis god. Whose personality isn't exactly "I kill because I like killing". Reason why mantis god is NE is because assassins' job is considered to be evil by nature, red mantis assassins and their god is seem to be strictly professional by nature: They kill because they are assassins who were "hired"(well in case of mantis god its more of an instinct...) to kill.

I mean, thats why artifact's destruction requires killing 9 RIGHTFUL rulers, because it is considered blasphemy in mantis god's faith. So by following what mantis god and red mantis are like, shouldn't sword be strictly professional about killing, like an assassin? I mean, sure, there are probably psychotic evil serial killer red mantis assassins and some non professional killers who worship mantis god, but I'd assume sacred sword to assassin god's faith to fit him better than Norgober who is just god of murder and stuff

Too long to read version: That sword personality would fit better if it was Norgorber faith's holy sword, Mantis God faith's sword would probably be more professional about killing. At most sword would probably find assasination some type of art or just be excited as being used for assassination.

Please correct me if I have my lore wrong ^_^;

[captain yesterday]

The mantis god is LE :)

[CorvusMask]

Oops

Come to think about it LE does fit better to what I was talking about ^^;

[Marshal Stack]

I dealt with this by basically having the party help Chivane defeat the trogs, get the Mantis Blade, and send her on her way leaving Saventh Yhi with it.
And yes we played this with good-aligned PC’s and the way we justified such an act was that: 1. It kept the PC’s faction (Pathfinders) safe from assassins, 2. Part of the deal was also that Chivane had to agree to free Sasha (who the PC’s had gotten quite fond of) from any commitment or association with, or any fear of reprisal from, the Red Mantis faction, 3. The party sent a warning out to the rest of the world, via the Pathfinders and Free Captains, that a dangerous evil artifact was discovered and in the possession of a Red Mantis assassin, including her name and description etc. So it was kind of a mentality of “let the rest of the world deal with it, hey we can’t do EVERYTHING!”
And yes, that’s a tough moral dilemma situation no matter how your party deals with it. So what I then did was come up with a whole separate session where it was dealt with by characters from previous campaigns. 3 different adventuring groups, 1 acting on info from a Pathfinder, 1 acting on info from Free Captain of the Shackles, and 1 who had no info about the Mantis Blade but were hunting a Red Mantis assassin and pursued him all the way to the stronghold where Chivane ended up. The 3 parties then joined forces, defeated Chivane and her allies, and recovered the Mantis Blade.
Then the big twist, if you will, was I dropped them the hint about Mordenkainen’s Disjunction as a way to deal with the sword, and that the best chances for that spell’s success was to go to the place the sword was made and cast the spell there. In other words, after all the party’s efforts in Saventh Yhi to deal with this thing and get rid of it, and the moral dilemma of the whole thing, the players then learn that the thing is going to be BROUGHT BACK TO SAVENTH YHI for them to have to deal with AGAIN! :)
And yeah, that’s player knowledge, not character knowledge, and timeline-wise, it wouldn’t be back until the events of the AP are concluded, but it at least let the players know the situation was handled, for now, and they didn’t have to lose sleep imagining all the murders and assassinations they just let loose on the world.