Gauntlets and amulet of mighty fists?

[The World Shaper]

Does the amulet work with them? i mean i know the enchantment bonus wouldn't stack but lets say you have normal masterwork gauntlets and happen to find a +2 amulet would it work with them?

[Weirdo]

We can't even agree if a gauntlet interacts with effects that improve Unarmed Strike, so you're not going to get a clear answer.

If you do believe that a gauntlet attack counts as an unarmed strike, then the bonus from a masterwork gauntlet would not stack with a bonus on an amulet of mighty fists, because the masterwork bonus, like that granted by weapon enchantments, is an enhancement bonus.

You might be able to stack an enchantment bonus with special qualities, for example wearing a +5 gauntlet and using a Holy Amulet of Mighty Fists to get a +5 Holy attack, but I would disallow it given that Magic Armour and Bracers of Armour are not allowed to stack in that way. I suppose you could benefit from an AoMF and special material gauntlets, but in the long run it would probably be more efficient to get a +3 adamantine gauntlet, which is much less expensive than a +3 AoMF.

The point of wearing a gauntlet, if it counts as an unarmed strike, would be to enhance it instead of an Amulet of Mighty Fists.

[NikolaiJuno]

You really aren't going to get a real answer on this. It falls in the ask your GM category, because the rules are far from clear.

[kestral287]

I can't see how anyone could say no.

AoMF wrote:

This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

If you call Gauntlets Unarmed Attacks but not Unarmed Strikes, it works. If you call Gauntlets Unarmed Strikes and Unarmed Attacks, it works.

They're clearly listed under Unarmed Attacks; the debate over them hinges on whether or not they're also Unarmed Strikes. AoMF clearly works with unarmed attacks. If anyone has logic to dispute this, please, lay it out.

How you stack the two magical items is less clear; personally I'd roll with higher-trumps.

[Kchaka]

I think not. The gauntlets is a weapon on it's own, like a longsword. If you attack with the longsword you use it's properties, if you attack with the gauntlet you use the gauntlet's properties. If you want do deal the gauntlet's lethal damage you'll have to use the whole gauntlet. If you want the gauntlet attacks to have +2 enchancement you'll have to enchant the gauntlets or cast a spell on it. Think of Gauntlets and Unarmed Attacks as two separate weapons, both which don't threaten any squares and provoke attacks of opportunity.

Btw, you can't be a monk and attack with gauntlets. If you do, some Monk God will show up and Stun Foot you to death.

[kestral287]

Kchaka wrote:

Think of Gauntlets and Unarmed Attacks as two separate weapons, both which don't threaten any squares and provoke attacks of opportunity.

How do you reconcile this with the weapons list, which notes Gauntlets as a type of Unarmed Attack, next to Unarmed Strikes?

[Kchaka]

Gauntles are Gauntlets, they work just like Unarmed Strikes in almost every other way, but deal lethal damage.

As you said, it's two different weapons; Gauntlets and Unarmed Strikes. Both are "unarmed attacks", meaning they provoke AoO and don't threaten any squares.

[kestral287]

Kchaka wrote:

Gauntles are Gauntlets, they work just like Unarmed Strikes in almost every other way, but deal lethal damage.

As you said, it's two different weapons; Gauntlets and Unarmed Strikes. Both are "unarmed attacks", meaning they provoke AoO and don't threaten any squares.

The last sentence is what I was looking for. This is from the Amulet of Mighty Fists:

AoMF wrote:

This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

Note how it says Unarmed Attacks, not Unarmed Strikes.

Does this alter your opinion?

[Cevah]

Weirdo wrote:

... but I would disallow it given that Magic Armour and Bracers of Armour are not allowed to stack in that way....

Nitpick, RAW, if the Bracers and Armor have the same bonus, they do not invoke the no-stack clause.

PRD wrote:

Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.

RAI is probably choose one or the other.

/cevah

[Kchaka]

Kestral287 wrote:

AoMF wrote: This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

Ok m8, I'll agree with you that thanks to this sentence (and a whole bunch of other texts about unarmed attacks, unarmed strikes, gauntlets, monks, natural weapons, etc), by RAW you can say AoMF works with gauntlets. BUT, also by RAW, there's also a bunch of other texts that support otherwise, as we have seen extensively in previous threads. So, democracy may be the best way to rule this one.

I for one feel AoMF should not work with gauntlets.

[kestral287]

Oh, I don't think it should. It's silly. But I do think that by RAW it does.

What other texts are you thinking of? I'm curious.