You can, but you'd have to wield it as an exotic weapon. You can only two-hand an oversized weapon if it is one-handed, and the bastard sword is only one-handed when you have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.
It's kind of a waste, though. The stats for a large bastard sword are the exact same as a regular great sword, plus the -2 penalty for using an oversized weapon.
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Take a look at Amiri, the Barbarian iconic.
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It's kind of a waste, though. The stats for a large bastard sword are the exact same as a regular great sword, plus the -2 penalty for using an oversized weapon.
A Large Bastard sword does 2d8. It's a difference of 2 points average damage to the great swords 2d6.
It's not worth it unless you are making heavy use of enlarge person and or lead blades.
It's kind of a waste, though. The stats for a large bastard sword are the exact same as a regular great sword, plus the -2 penalty for using an oversized weapon.
A medium greatsword deals 2d6 damage. A large basterd sword deals 2d8 damage.
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Can a medium barbarian wields a large bastard sword in two hands as a martial weapon? Suffering only the -2 penalty for wielding an oversized weapon.
A medium-sized character can wield a medium-sized Bastard Sword in two hands, or one hand if they are proficient.
A medium-sized character can wield a large-sized Bastard Sword in two hands only if they are proficient.
It's not worth it unless you are making heavy use of enlarge person and or lead blades.
Or if you just think it "looks cool". And we now have Effortless Lace to complicate things.
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Amiri. Note that she doesn't carry a large bastard sword because it's more effective, she carries it because it's a storied trophy.
Yes, one can do what you ask. Do note that it reduces your combat effectiveness. Damage goes from 2D6 ~= 7 to 2D8 ~= 9. So that's +2 damage. You take a -2 to hit for +2 damage. A to hit bonus is worth twice a damage bonus, so it would require +4 to damage to balance out the -2 to hit. So it's a bad trade off that actually hinders your combat effectiveness. You can do it, though.
And we now have Effortless Lace to complicate things.Not in PFS, at least.
I hadn't noticed they banned it. Honestly surprised by that. It's probably because off sized weapons aren't supposed to be "always available", but does anyone have an actual reason?
Because Effortless Lace is bull squirt?
If there was a giant race with weapon familiarity: Bastard sword humans could take adoptive parentage to get proficiency and a bonus language in one feat.
And they'd have a reason to use an oversized version: It was their father's.
With lead blade and enlarge person its even more awesome. And a Barbarian doesnt have to worry much about the -2 to hit.
The main reason is that it's effectively an impact weapon (a +2 equivalent) for a flat 2500 gp.
Depending on how you look at it. You just know DMs will be sundering that thing left and right.
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The main reason is that it's effectively an impact weapon (a +2 equivalent) for a flat 2500 gp.
With the further problem of being able to stack lead blades/impact and enlarge person enabling you to get a weapon 3 size categories larger. The damage progression die start to get wonky around that point. With a bastard sword it becomes 4.
Assuming EWP(bastard sword)
Large bastard sword - 2d8
Impact - 3d8
Enlarge - 4d8
Effortless Lace - allows you to move up to a huge bastard sword - 6d8
Bonus cheese points if you're a tiefling who happens to get the oversized weapons ability. You move up to 8d8.
Now, be a Sacred Fist warpriest and take crusader's flurry as a worshipper of a god who's favored weapon is a bastard sword (Ragethiel) and you've now recreated the Conqueror Ooze (monk/druid) with a sword instead.
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"Once an effortless lace’s abilities have been conveyed
to a weapon, the ribbon must remain attached to the weapon or
its effects end immediately, its magic is permanently lost, and
it is reduced to worthless cloth. Effects that would dispel the
magic of the weapon or cause the weapon to gain the broken
condition (such as sundering) destroy the ribbon as well."
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9rb7
"For a weapon that isn't entirely made of the same material (such as a wooden-hafted weapon with a metal head), if that material isn't the standard material for that weapon, use the hardness from Table 7–13 for the weakest material in the weapon instead of the default hardness on Table 7–12. For example, an ice-hafted (hardness 0) steel-headed (hardness 10) battleaxe has hardness 0 overall because it is only as strong as its weakest part."
Expect some table variation.
Edit: Fixed the link.
What is the source for effortless lace?
Giant Hunter's Handbook or Guidebook, something like that.
Edit: Slayer'd
Imbicatus, have I missed anything earlier with my post about the crazy Tiefling Bastard Sword wielding Warpriest of Ragethiel being able to flurry with 8d8 damage (and getting 3:1 power attack scaling)?
So...all of this feat tax could be avoided by using a large greatsword?
So...all of this feat tax could be avoided by using a large greatsword? Or is that not possible without special fiddly bits?
Yeah, I realized after the fact that tiefling doesn't work well as it also precludes enlarge person.
But still, you can end up with 6d8 damage and full flurry progression as a single class war priest.
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So...all of this feat tax could be avoided by using a large greatsword?
You can't use a large greatsword as a medium character period.
* Unless you are a Titan fighter, also in Giant Hunter's Handbook.
** Titan Fighter is a trap, giving up weapon training. A core fighter will do more damage with a medium greatsword than the titan fighter will with a large greatsword.
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Is that for me? If so, I feel honored to have left you flabbergasted.
Greatswords are two-handed weapons, so no. :P
claxon: no
LazarX: thank you
...So yes, fiddly bits are necessary. On a side note I understand how to use the term Feat Tax, I just figured that spending feats to do something less effective than alternative feat-free method could be considered feat tax. Whatever though, I'm not as hip as you kids I suppose, with your forum slang and so forth.
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...So yes, fiddly bits are necessary. On a side note I understand how to use the term Feat Tax, I just figured that spending feats to do something less effective than alternative feat-free method could be considered feat tax. Whatever though, I'm not as hip as you kids I suppose, with your forum slang and so forth.Save that there is no such alternative here. A medium character can not use a large two handed weapon at all.
They can with Titan fighter, but as I said, Titan fighter is awful.
I hadn't noticed they banned it. Honestly surprised by that. It's probably because off sized weapons aren't supposed to be "always available", but does anyone have an actual reason?
I don't know the actual reason, but my theory is that the developers seem to think a lot of damage dice, like going from a d6 to a d8 is a big deal.
claxon: no
LazarX: thank you
:'(
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Ah, but now we have the Titan Fighter, who could conceivably wield the Large Bastard Sword, as large two-handed weapon, but not a large one-handed weapon, without proficiency, even though it require the exact same amount of hands to wield either.
Same a small Bastard Sword, which could be wielded by a medium creature, as a small two-handed weapon, but not a small one-handed weapon, without proficiency even though it require the exact same amount of hands to wield either.
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And by the way, Titan Fighter isn't terrible. It's slightly worse than the normal fighter at straight DPR, yes, and that would make it subpar (not "terrible", which is a melodramatic descriptor for a minor disadvantage). It does get advantages to CMB and CMD, though, like being able to target larger creatures.
Uh, -7? By 20th level, it's a -4, only because they miss out on Weapon Training. And the damage drawback is -.5, assuming they're wielding a Large greatsword (which adds +3.5 damage). In exchange, they get +4 to CMD and CMB, as well as increased options—Large weapons found in loot become available to them and they can use combat maneuvers on Large or even Huge enemies.
EDIT: Also, yeah, lore wardens get great CMD/CMB bonuses, but they get those by giving up medium armor, heavy armor, and shields. That hurts. I'm not saying lore wardens are bad, but they're a completely different type of fighter.
So...all of this feat tax could be avoided by using a large greatsword?You can't use a large greatsword as a medium character period.
* Unless you are a Titan fighter, also in Giant Hunter's Handbook.
** Titan Fighter is a trap, giving up weapon training. A core fighter will do more damage with a medium greatsword than the titan fighter will with a large greatsword.
The Titan Fighter is a great 1lvl dip for other classes though.
Ah, I didn't realize we were including magic items in our figures. Incidentally, do I get to assume my fighter managed to dig up some sort of use-activated or continuous enlarge person item? That handles the damage disadvantage pretty well. ;D
Doesn't really matter, though. I was never arguing titan fighter is the master of DPR. Fortunately, while DPR is easy to calculate, "options" remain that wonderfully aloof field. The titan fighter gains a great deal of versatility by being able to use maneuvers on much larger enemies—something the default fighter lacks. Even if you don't think much of that, "terrible" remains an overstatement—at worst, it totals to "slightly not as good".
Titan fighter is the archetype if you want to play that sort of character, and the term "trap option" is becoming a bit of a logic trap itself on these subforums, leading us to nitpick over minor reductions in effectiveness that make barely any difference when it comes to actual gameplay.