Bob, Bob, Bob!
(sounds like we're playing the Bob Newheart game!)
Great stuff, and what looks like conclusive evidence that a fly spell does get a +4 for "good maneuverability"! Kudos to whoever originally spotted it.
What I'm still stymied about is what happens if you declare a move action to use a special maneuver, then fail the fly skill check. Doesn't seem fair that you can just do any other fly/move action that you like. A failed skill check should mean something.
Bob, Bob, Bob!
(sounds like we're playing the Bob Newheart game!)Great stuff, and what looks like conclusive evidence that a fly spell does get a +4 for "good maneuverability"! Kudos to whoever originally spotted it.
What I'm still stymied about is what happens if you declare a move action to use a special maneuver, then fail the fly skill check. Doesn't seem fair that you can just do any other fly/move action that you like. A failed skill check should mean something.
Agreed and agreed. Makes me wish Paizo would simply start fresh with a PF 2.0 version, like Unchained but for everything. Too much detritus from the morass that was 3.X clogging up the current system with unnecessary/confusing language.
Bob, Bob, Bob!
(sounds like we're playing the Bob Newheart game!)Great stuff, and what looks like conclusive evidence that a fly spell does get a +4 for "good maneuverability"! Kudos to whoever originally spotted it.
Fly spell gives good maneuverability and separately a bonus of 1/2 caster level.
The winged boots give a fly spell with a caster level of 8 and says specifically it gives a bonus of +4 (which equals half caster level) and not +8 (half caster level plus natural flight good maneuverability).
Did you mean conclusive evidence it does not give a good maneuverability +4 bonus?
Fly
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a wing feather)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level.
Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends safely in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.
Agreed and agreed. Makes me wish Paizo would simply start fresh with a PF 2.0 version, like Unchained but for everything. Too much detritus from the morass that was 3.X clogging up the current system with unnecessary/confusing language.Bob, Bob, Bob!
(sounds like we're playing the Bob Newheart game!)Great stuff, and what looks like conclusive evidence that a fly spell does get a +4 for "good maneuverability"! Kudos to whoever originally spotted it.
What I'm still stymied about is what happens if you declare a move action to use a special maneuver, then fail the fly skill check. Doesn't seem fair that you can just do any other fly/move action that you like. A failed skill check should mean something.
Part of me agrees, while looking at the design directions that Paizo has taken in recent years makes the rest of me want to hide under a bed at the thought of PF 2.0.
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The bonus to fly checks from fly is separate from the maneuverability bonus. A good maneuverability provides a +4 bonus to fly checks (check the fly skill). Further, a fly spell provides a +1/2 CL bonus on fly checks which is independent of maneuverability.
It's also worth noting that casting fly on a creature with flight can improve their aerial acrobatics. For example, if a creature with perfect maneuverability gets a fly spell, it can continue to fly using its usual methods but still gets the +1/2 CL to fly skill checks.
A 5th level sorcerer casting fly would have a net total of +6 to Fly checks (+4 good maneuverability, +2 from CL). A 10th level sorcerer would have a net total of +9 (+4 from maneuverability, +5 from CL), and so on and so forth.
Came across this old thread and thought I'd update it with the FAQ ruling since a lot of people were debating the 'natural maneuverability' question:
Flight and Magical Flight: Can a paralyzed or stunned creature keep flying with magical flight? Does a creature with magical flight not apply bonuses or penalties to Fly checks because it doesn’t have a “natural” fly speed? Does flying make a creature immune to being flat-footed?
No, any creature that loses all actions can’t take an action to attempt a Fly check to hover in place and thus automatically falls. That includes a paralyzed, stunned, or dazed creature. Magical flight doesn’t act any differently, even for paralysis, as it isn’t a purely mental action. A creature with 0 Dexterity can’t fly, and paralysis sets a creature’s Dexterity to 0. Despite the fact that the Fly skill mentions that bonuses and penalties from maneuverability apply to creatures with natural fly speeds, they apply for any fly speed. If they didn’t apply to creatures that gained flight artificially or through magic, then those maneuverabilities (like the listed good maneuverability for the fly spell) would have no game effect. Finally, the statement “You are not considered flat-footed while flying” means that flying (unlike balancing using Acrobatics or climbing) doesn’t automatically make you flat-footed or force you to lose your Dexterity bonus to AC; it doesn’t mean that flying makes you immune to being caught flat-footed.
Still no answer to the question of what's supposed to happen when you fail a Fly check?