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This is my first foray into anything raging, so I am trying to understand this line.
A bloodrager cannot enter a new bloodrage while fatigued or exhausted, but can otherwise enter bloodrage multiple times during a single encounter or combat.
Does this mean that he can do this?
round 1: rage
round 2: end rage and move to another target.
round 3: rage
thus saving a round of rage?
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Not really. You've missed a piece in the bloodrage description, the sentence before the one you posted:
When the bloodrage ends, he’s fatigued for a number of rounds equal to twice the number of rounds spent in the bloodrage.
So your scenario would be
Round 1: rage and at end of round drop rage
Round 2: be fatigued while moving
Round 3: fight fatigued
Round 4: capable of raging again
If you want to do what your scenario describes you have to find a way to become immune to fatigue or have a reliable (swift/free) way of removing it.
Damanta, that's not quite correct.
The combat section of the core rulebook says that "Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on."So, here's what you could do:
Round one: Begin rage. Act. End rage. Fatigued for two rounds.
Round two: Fatigued.
Round three: Fatigue ends just before your initiative count. Begin rage. Act. End rage. Fatigued for two rounds.
Repeat the cycle.But yeah, it works much better if you're immune to fatigue, which isn't actually that hard.
How would that be two rounds
It should be rage 1 round
fatigue 2nd
fatigue 3rd
Start of round 4 rage
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It depends on exactly when you end the rage. Ending rage is a free action, so you can only take it on your turn.
If you end it at the end of your turn on the round you activate it, it functions as Avoron stated.
If you end it a the beginning of your turn on the second round, it functions as Damanta stated.
Most of the time, you should end range on the same round you activate it if you want to cycle, but if you do, it will not apply to any AoOs you might be able to take.
Unfortunately, I think this is a case of RAW vs. RAI. I think that if you are to be fatigued for twice as long as you could rage, then it should be that you are fatigued for twice as long, thus what Damanta and Azouth wrote is a better interpretation.
Rage
Fatigue
Rage
is a 2:1 rage to fatigue ratio.
Rage
Fatigue
Fatigue
is a 1:2 rage to fatigue ratio, which is what is the rules state should happen.
If you were a first level wizard and cast adjuring step (a spell that only lasts 1 rd/lvel) at the end of your round, according to Avoron, the spell wears off before he acts again, which means it is a wasted spell.
Essentially, I think that if you end a rage at the end of a round, the fatigue also ends at the end of the round, just as if the qizard in the example above would get a chance to actually use Adjuring Step on his next action before it wore off.
It depends on exactly when you end the rage. Ending rage is a free action, so you can only take it on your turn.
If you end it at the end of your turn on the round you activate it, it functions as Avoron stated.
If you end it a the beginning of your turn on the second round, it functions as Damanta stated.
Most of the time, you should end range on the same round you activate it if you want to cycle, but if you do, it will not apply to any AoOs you might be able to take.
This is exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't phrase (it was also posted as I was writing my response).
Avoron, I understand what you are trying to say, but I simply don't agree. I think that rules as intended, you are to suffer the consequences of fatigue for two of your turns for every one that you benefited from a rage. Yes, I'm equating turns to rounds again, but the Core Rulebook does that frequently as well.
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Avoron is right, I made a mistake by putting the rage end at the first round instead of at the beginning of the second like the original post.
I'm too used to working with immune to fatigue that I went with standard start/stop. My bad.
A 1st level wizard casting adjuring steps can take two 5 ft. steps during the round he casts it, but it ends at the start of his next initiative count. Same goes for a 1st level wizard casting vanish, he'd be invisible until the start of his next initiative count.
That's why you don't cast 1 round/level spells at casterlevel 1, unless it's to boost another person's action.
Personally, I wouldn't do the rage/drop, walk fatigued and hit, rage/drop routine, as you lose a +5 to hit compared to just charging to the next target, which at low level can be quite crucial. (-1 from fatigue, and no +2 charge bonus, no +2 rage bonus).
Edit: you'll also be hitting at 3 damage less (-1 from fatigue, no +2 from rage).
Yes, it depends entirely on the turn in which you end the rage. It doesn't matter when during the turn you end it, it just depends on the turn itself.
lutzsd, should we just ignore the rule that fatigue lasting two turns ends just before the barbarian's initiative count?
If the developers didn't intend for that to be the rule, they wouldn't have written it so clearly in the rulebook.
I don't agree that it is clearly written. If it were clearly written, I don't think there'd be the original question.
The section of the combat rules you quote also states that each round is cyclical and last six seconds. If you end a rage at the end of your turn, then 6 seconds later is that same moment at the end of your turn. I think it all comes down to interpretation on this one, and as I said, we disagree.
Yes but every 1 round thing you start at any point of your turn ends the beginning of your next turn. Many cleric domains have a standard action, 1 round touch, making them unable to "benefit" from it except for AoO. So why would rage be any different? Any round you end is the first round it's off. It's one of the perks of a scarred rager that they can rage cycle every turn. They're just fatigued between their turns.
Yes but every 1 round thing you start at any point of your turn ends the beginning of your next turn. Many cleric domains have a standard action, 1 round touch, making them unable to "benefit" from it except for AoO. So why would rage be any different? Any round you end is the first round it's off. It's one of the perks of a scarred rager that they can rage cycle every turn. They're just fatigued between their turns.
My interpretation is that a scarred rager still has a turn fatigued, so it would be more in line with the original poster's (and Avoron's) thinking.
Rage
Fatigue
Rage
Without going into detail, I think Rage Cycling is a whole other issue that we don't need to go into, anyway.
I'm admitting that my interpretation of the rules may be wrong (not saying it is, but I can't say my way of thinking is what the developers meant). I think that if you have one action raged, you should have two actions fatigued.
Well your thinking isn't in line with how the rules operates. If at the end of your turn you end rage you're fatigued on your turn. Even if you don't perform any other actions you're still fatigued on that turn. Thus it is a round just like it is for the cleric's touch abilities.
I'm pretty sure Avoron agrees with me. Since the example he gave was for a normal barbarian and it's matching your version of the scarred rager which is fatigued for half the time.
Can you give me a specific example of a domain power you are referring to? I'd like to see how I interpret that and see if my line of thinking holds true with how I am interpreting the rules for rage. If they aren't in line, I will need to change my belief.
Sure thing.
These are the two I always think of
Battle Rage (Sp): You can touch a creature as a standard action to give it a bonus on melee damage rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level for 1 round (minimum +1). You can do so a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Strength Surge (Sp): As a standard action, you can touch a creature to give it great strength. For 1 round, the target gains an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) to melee attacks, combat maneuver checks that rely on Strength, Strength-based skills, and Strength checks. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Sorcerer has one too
Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
These are the same as how a 1 round duration spell effect would work. how long 1 round casting is.
Yeah, I'm wrong.
When I compare how I would operate those as compared to how I do rage, I don't handle them same, and mechanically, I really should. I can't reconcile handling them differently.
Sorry, Avoron.
Guess I'll have to start marking my tracked spells and effects a little differently now.
It all made sense as I was writing it, in terms of looking only at rage, but, hey, that's why we have forums in the first place.
I'm glad that I was able to help. I went through the same thing when I learned that this was how it worked. I hope my posts didn't sound to mean. Sorry if they did.
Not at all; no apologies necessary. Thanks for helping me understand.