| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just get rid of the innards, I'd say.
Ruyan.
Contributor
|
Ugh. Disemboweled prophet template and sample statblock grew to 748 words already. And I need to add at least two or three sentences of description...
Drejk, go ahead and add the descriptive text, then let it sit for a day. When you go back to revise it, I'm willing to bet that you can trim at least 75 words. I can usually count on cutting out at least 10% of my current word count when I make the first couple of editorial passes. That's true even when I'm writing rules text.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I literally don't know what I'm going to do for this issue anymore. I had a few ideas, but with OGL issues, and having to be a little more original so I'm not stepping on Paizo's toes with their canon, I've got nothing. Grateful we have so much time. Maybe by April I'll have something actually worthwhile that I can do.
|
Kevin; have you ever run a game with a monstrous encounter, or played a monstrous character, and found that the official rules got in the way of actually representing the creature's iconic theme?
Like my example upthread, of oozes being hopeless at sticking to prey?
Or the sorcerer bloodlines, that don't add anything to certain creature types?
This issue would be an opportunity to add options that support building the kind of monsters we want to see in-game.
|
|
Kevin; have you ever run a game with a monstrous encounter, or played a monstrous character, and found that the official rules got in the way of actually representing the creature's iconic theme?
Like my example upthread, of oozes being hopeless at sticking to prey?
Or the sorcerer bloodlines, that don't add anything to certain creature types?This issue would be an opportunity to add options that support building the kind of monsters we want to see in-game.
I haven't had these issues myself, no, because the DM I have never plays anything straight. Unless he's reminded about a creature's intelligence, he'll sometimes play it like they've got a 20+ in the stat, if it's lower.
Other than that, my only experience with PF is running it.
I do remember reading on encounter with a half-dragon with the dragon bloodline, and the writer had to revise the template significantly because the two didn't mix.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think a ranger archetype for a bugbear is overdue if it hasn't been done.
|
Contributor
|
kevin_video is correct. The CR for each NPC should be 7 or less. Remember that if you are applying levels in a class that is not "key" for that monster, based on its role, then the CR increases by 1 for every two class levels.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterAdvancement.html#adding- class-levels
Submission 1 of 3 Sent!
I can relax a little bit now while my muse inspires the next one...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
kevin_video is correct. The CR for each NPC should be 7 or less. Remember that if you are applying levels in a class that is not "key" for that monster, based on its role, then the CR increases by 1 for every two class levels.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterAdvancement.html#adding- class-levels
Applying that rule right now...
Ruyan.
|
Contributor
|
kevin_video is correct. The CR for each NPC should be 7 or less. Remember that if you are applying levels in a class that is not "key" for that monster, based on its role, then the CR increases by 1 for every two class levels.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterAdvancement.html#adding- class-levels
Applying that rule right now...
Ruyan.
Hero Lab actually does this for you if the monster's role has been identified as part of the data set.
You think I should buy it? Naah, I've too much fun browsing the PRD back and forth and always finding new tidbits of information I didn't even know I had forgotten.
Ruyan.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Remember, though, that "half off" thing only applies until your class levels equal your monster hit dice.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Like I said, I don't want to shoot down all these great ideas, but I feel I need to definitely steer this one away from being heavily loaded towards outsiders....the discussion is leaning there right now.
I think anchoring it to Golarion itself is one way to do this.
OK...I have an idea to do an article about...monster/monstrous parasites.
Parasites that attach themselves to specific monsters (ie. dragon parasites, giant parasites, undead? parasites, etc...) causing unique changes similar to templates to the specific monsters. They would focus on changes to things such as diet, mental faculties, etc... As well as how the parasites breed and spread themselves amongst their particular hosts of choice.Does that sound like a good thread to pick at?
PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
|
Like I said, I don't want to shoot down all these great ideas, but I feel I need to definitely steer this one away from being heavily loaded towards outsiders....the discussion is leaning there right now.
I think anchoring it to Golarion itself is one way to do this.
OK...I have an idea to do an article about...monster/monstrous parasites.
Parasites that attach themselves to specific monsters (ie. dragon parasites, giant parasites, undead? parasites, etc...) causing unique changes similar to templates to the specific monsters. They would focus on changes to things such as diet, mental faculties, etc... As well as how the parasites breed and spread themselves amongst their particular hosts of choice.Does that sound like a good thread to pick at?
That is indeed a pretty interesting take on things. Sure. Run with it.
Remember, though, that "half off" thing only applies until your class levels equal your monster hit dice.Good point. That could matter if you're using low-HD monsters.
Trying very hard not to scratch the CR7 ceiling here...
Ruyan.
|
PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
|
Remember, though, that "half off" thing only applies until your class levels equal your monster hit dice.Good point. That could matter if you're using low-HD monsters.Trying very hard not to scratch the CR7 ceiling here...
Ruyan.
Again, the reasoning behind this is that we really need to fit the Weal or Woe article onto 2 pages. When we get higher and higher levels, with all the new classes and archetypes and templates, it becomes very hard to do that, AND find enough room remaining to include art. Spell lists are usually the biggest issue at the higher levels. If people want these higher level WoW articles, then we will have to eliminate art for those. If it STILL doesn't fit on two pages, then we can't use it. It's a lot of messing around, making people do a lot of work (editing, art, layout), when really if we rein it in, and create solid, tight stat blocks, it works just fine. Earlier issues did not have this problem with the WoWs. It was only after all the additional rules and options popped up.
Secondly, I think simpler NPCs, and especially lower level ones, are more likely to see use by GMs out there. I could be wrong, but that's a factor in our thinking too.
No worries. My Woe sits at CR 5 and the Weal at CR 3,respectively.
Since I've done the CR 12 serpentfolk necromancer for WF #9 I exactly understand what you mean. This also why I usually stick to CRB and APG for the most part.
It's just that I like seeing careful (N)PC planning come to fruition and that's usualy (for me) at around lvl 8+.
Ruyan.
|
PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I will also say a few more things about WoW articles....
Reviewing the submissions for #13, and issues previous to that, I've noticed that many people are putting these NPCs into an increasingly gray area. The Weal should be an ally, a good NPC that needs your help, and can give aid in return. The Woe is the NPC your party will typically run afoul of...dealing with them are NOT pleasant, and have some consequences.
Also, the submissions we pick for a WoW article shows a strong connection between the two NPCs. Their backstories should have a tie to each other. What this does is that it presents a underlying story going on with these two characters, one which the PCs are becoming a part of....setting it up for the GM to use both NPCs in a possible side trek for your campaign. That is why we typically have an adventure that uses a WoW article as the basis.
Just some things to consider for all of you percolating ideas right now....
|
|
Reviewing the submissions for #13, and issues previous to that, I've noticed that many people are putting these NPCs into an increasingly gray area.
Could that be the influence of Ustalav, seeping into their thoughts?
It's the kind of place GMs love to place their grimdark 'Heads I win, Tails you lose' adventures, hopeless stands against an uncaring universe.Not the best place for a level-headed paragon of virtue to pop up and help the PCs.
I didn't submit a WoW this time, but when I did, last time we visited this dump (WF#5), the Weal was effectively racked with PTSD and survivor guilt.
I imagine the PCs spending a fair portion of their time trying to prevent him galloping off to find a noble death, while the Woe was apparently the sane one, with his head screwed on right.
If the players are Warhammer fans, they'll probably consider there to be a bit of a Gotrek and Felix vibe between them.
Timitius, you'll be on the lookout if anyone cribs anything from The Daily Bestiary without proper credit, yes?
|
PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
|
Timitius, you'll be on the lookout if anyone cribs anything from The Daily Bestiary without proper credit, yes?
Thanks for pointing me to that site. I wasn't aware of it.
We really trust that people are honest going into this. If you are swiping ideas and passing them off as your own, we do have about a dozen gamers that happen to be our editing team that will likely see it and realize it's "really similar to something I saw over at...." and if it is determined that it's way too similar to something already done, regardless of what stage of the process the article made it to, I will drop it right out of the issue. And the author's name will be blacklisted.
We are a free fan-based 'zine, and we really don't need copyright legal battles. That would kill Wayfinder immediately.
So, politely I ask that no one even go there.
But, yeah, we are watching....
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Timitius, you'll be on the lookout if anyone cribs anything from The Daily Bestiary without proper credit, yes?
Are you asking this, because it's already been a problem, or because it might be a problem in future?
I haven't done a monster this time, but if anything I ever do is similar to something else out there, I hope I get a chance to state my case before a ban, name my sources, show my working.
I agree that cases of exact word for word cut'n'paste are damning, but I forsee it's easy for two or more people to accidentally go to the same mythical well, and develop the same thing in parallel.
I can check the Paizo Bestiaries, I can maybe check 90 AP issues, but I can't follow all the monsters on all the OGL blogs.
One of the reasons I stopped participating in RPG Superstar for several years was because I got decision paralysis over this.
"I'm no genius, so if I can think of this, somebody else must have already written it."
|
Contributor
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Timitius, you'll be on the lookout if anyone cribs anything from The Daily Bestiary without proper credit, yes?Are you asking this, because it's already been a problem, or because it might be a problem in future?
I haven't done a monster this time, but if anything I ever do is similar to something else out there, I hope I get a chance to state my case before a ban, name my sources, show my working.
I agree that cases of exact word for word cut'n'paste are damning, but I forsee it's easy for two or more people to accidentally go to the same mythical well, and develop the same thing in parallel.
I can check the Paizo Bestiaries, I can maybe check 90 AP issues, but I can't follow all the monsters on all the OGL blogs.One of the reasons I stopped participating in RPG Superstar for several years was because I got decision paralysis over this.
"I'm no genius, so if I can think of this, somebody else must have already written it."
That's a good point, Snorter. Having looked at a number of unpublished monsters over the years, I can confirm that it's quite possible to get multiple versions of the same kind of monster. Typically, though, there are pretty big differences that set them apart.
It's not uncommon for different people to submit things with similar concepts ("a monster that can [insert cool ability idea]") or with similar names, either based on a reference from the setting or on real-world mythology. In those cases, it's pretty easy to tell that each person's work is his or her own, though. While the source of an idea may be the same, people usually do VERY different things with them when they develop the rules.
As for checking sources, that's a tough one. The Wayfinder staff is very small and works on a 100% volunteer basis. Checking sources for 130+ articles, which include about two dozen monsters, two dozen classes and related rules, and over two dozen more magic items is difficult. We do our best, but it's possible we will miss something. I, too, would hope that if someone finds that something we've published is too similar (or identical) to something that has been published elsewhere, they will let us know, first, so we can look into it.
And while I'm talking about sources, I would also like our submitters to do something for me: cite your sources. I'm not talking about the sources for feats, spells, etc., although that's important, too. I'm talking about the sources for the ideas you are developing in your article.
If you are working on something inspired by a reference in a Paizo book, please tell me where you got the idea, so I can check the reference. If you are creating something from whole cloth, please tell me that, so I'm not looking everywhere to find out more about the thing you've written. If you're running up against word count, just put a comment in the Word file, either attached to the title or to the specific thing in the article text. (Comments in Word are not considered when it calculates word count.) Adding that information will help me get a better sense of what you were trying to accomplish with your submission. Believe me, there have been a few times when I've thought, "That idea's never going to work in Golarion" or "that's a silly name for a character" only to find out that the idea or name was taken directly from a brief mention in a Paizo book.
OK, the "A creature's essence" article I submitted has a single creature in the article where I stepped through the process of designing the essence of the creature.
The source of the design arose from having to do the dad thing many times for checking there is no "monster under the bed" for my daughter.
I hope the spin I took is novel enough but I am now checking out that site due to heightened paranoia! >.<
|
PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
|
Sorry if my response sounded draconian there.
Paris is, of course, correct. We cannot follow every entry across all sources to check to see if it is a direct swipe, or something similar, but developed independently.
Bottom line: we trust that people are honest, and doing their own work, or at least collaborating or giving credit where credit is due. We will do our utmost best to check things out, but our time is volunteered, and our resources limited.
Paris's suggestion to list your sources is excellent. It helps us GREATLY, and keeps it all legal when we fill out the OGL page, listing those sources...giving credit where it is due.
Ok! Sent the rough draft of a monstrous humanoid demon cult, plus the stats for a CR 18 high priestess! I included my referenced hints in the mail.
And now a little vacation till #15...
Anyone needing a fiction writing group should PM me. :)
Anyone have suggestions for fiction with an Int 3 protagonist?
I've sent mine fist submission ever about "Monstrous Simple Class Templates" and now... now I'm stuck, thinking on the next 2 ones but can't decide between a Weal or Woe, some monstrous Magic Items and a Realm Building article... hard choice.
Anyone needing a fiction writing group should PM me. :)
Anyone have suggestions for fiction with an Int 3 protagonist?
Ever read Of Mice and Men?
That is a good starting place to get a feel for it.Less intelligent characters tend to feel more and act on instinct, and have less control over their emotions generally. Also, since the theme is for monsters...
Why not a story based on a Paladin's monstrous mount, or an entire adventuring party group's animal companions? (A Dragonne, a Humunculus, and a baby allosaurus walk...I mean amble...stroll?...into a bar looking for their masters.)
=)
Also, Flowers for Algernon provides an excellent guide for an evolving/devolving mind, and the things you gain and lose in either direction.
"The Demolished Man" by Alfred Bester provides an immensely intriguing way of displaying telepathic communication.
I guess I will have a go at a fiction piece this time around.
Would a fluff piece, or short story, about two rival tribes of centaurs(or other monstrous creatures) be within the theme of this?
I'm rubbish with writing out or coming up with the mechanical side of things, but I've always had an idea for an alternate breed of centaur, and how despite being outnumbered, they're respected(maybe even feared) by their centaur forefathers.
Or better yet, a story about a party of monster race characters who hunt monsters. I'll start writing up a submission, maybe to have it be an ongoing piece if interest is had.
|
Random other notion I'm not terribly interested in developing myself;
Genies and / or elemental planetouched based on the 'Asian' elements of Metal and Wood. (or Void?)
The metal and wood genies might be less near eastern and more Vudrani or far eastern in aspect, but still be recognizably 'genies,' while the metal and wood 'genasi' would make for fun PC options. (There might not be 'elemental planes of metal and wood,' but that doesn't mean that such creatures could not have niches on the currently existing planes, with 'metal genies' being primarily earth-plane and fire-plane dwellers, and most strongly associated in the plane of fire with genie-associated metals like brass, and 'wood genies' being primarily earth-plane and water-plane dwellers, being associated in the plane of water with driftwood, seaweed and sargassos.)
Or better yet, a story about a party of monster race characters who hunt monsters. I'll start writing up a submission, maybe to have it be an ongoing piece if interest is had.
That sounds interesting!
I had an idea some time ago for an 'Iconic' Humanoid party;
Orc Monk/bruiser specialized in bite attacks, grappling and brutal pugilistics. Thinks armor and weapons are 'for wimps.'
Hobgoblin ex-slave Fighter, using his former slave chains as a spiked chain weapon.
Reddish-furred Bugbear Rogue headed into Shadowdancer and / or Assassin (tells people that her shadow companion is made up from the souls of those she's murdered...). Would need some sort of custom trait or feat to prevent all those +0 1st levels from pushing her BAB into the basement.
Gnoll Ranger w/ hyenadon companion.
Goblin pyromaniac pyromancer (fire wizard? alchemist?).
Lizardfolk druid with monitor lizard / crocigator companion.
Kobold cleric of Dahak / oracle, dragon-supremacist and with a chip on his shoulder the size of Mt. Rainier.
A party of seven would be unwieldy, I suspect, particularly for a short story, but the three goblinoids and the orc might make for a leaner group (with the goblin pyro focusing on alchemy to allow the group some healing options?).
Right now the party I've come up with is a Troll Barbarian, Tooth Fairy Ninja, Maftet Ranger, Goblin Gunslinger/Alchemist and Centaur Shaman, though I'm contemplating dropping the Maftet Ranger for a Gnoll Ranger and the Centaur in favor of a more "monstrous" character. Can't decide on what to go with, though I'm also partial to the idea of changing the Centaur's class to Sorceror instead and otherwise keeping it.
|
|
Hm. Seeing as a Golarion Gazetteer went well for me in the previous issue, I'm thinking abut doing one or two for this issue. I am thinking about focusing on places within the Darklands such as Ilvarandin and Sverenagati. Does anyone have another place they might suggest or want represented? I do love world building and this is my chance to do so^^.
|
PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
|
Hm. Seeing as a Golarion Gazetteer went well for me in the previous issue, I'm thinking abut doing one or two for this issue. I am thinking about focusing on places within the Darklands such as Ilvarandin and Sverenagati. Does anyone have another place they might suggest or want represented? I do love world building and this is my chance to do so^^.
If you are treading in the Darklands, you need to fullly read issue #9 first. That whole issue is Darklands-themed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I will be making my first submission. A short story. Wish me luck.