Curious about the intentions with the Deck 4 Scenario "The Ruins of Sumitha."
When you defeat a bane with the Giant trait, examine the location deck. Then shuffle it.
If you defeat a henchman with the Giant trait such as Cyclops Savage that allows you to "immediately attempt to close the location this henchman came from." Do you get to look at the location deck first then attempt to close or must you decide to close before looking.
From an earlier thread I believe it was determined that you have to deal with "immediately" effects before doing anything else. This make me think that you have to choose not to close the location before you can use the scenario effect to look at the location deck. Is this right? I don't believe that is what was intended but my understanding of "immediately" (which may be wrong) make me think this is how it works.
Thoughts appreciated.
So the scenario power only triggers if you luck into encountering a non-villian/non-henchman monster? That seems like a rather niche situation. Thus my curiosity about the intention of the scenario design.
Good to know I'm understanding the intricacies of the game though.
I wouldn't call it lucking into it, you're going to have far more regulars than henchmen and villains.
Yeah, but those regulars won't always be giants.
Yeah I think we have seen something similar before on a henchman - check the top two cards and put back in any order, kind of thing. It always seems like the best bet is to close the location if you can. Could be useful with the odd location that leaves a few boons lying around though.
My question is why have a scenario power that may not come into effect. For it to matter one of two things must happen.
#1 - Run into a non-villian/non-henchman giant monster.
#2 - Defeat a henchman monster with the giant trait and not chose to close a location or fail to close the location.
#1 is luck. #2 is something set up in the scenario. Every henchman in the scenario has the giant trait. Thematically it makes more sense (to me) if you get to use the scenario power when you defeat the henchman but before you decide to close. (Side Note - Unless the scenario power is meant to be a minor bonus to lessen the brunt of failing a closing check.)
I agree with the interpretation that Rules as Written you must decide to close before using the scenario power. It was my first interpretation as well. However something about the scenario power is nagging me to ask if that is the true intention of the scenario power.
I get what you're saying. The intent of the power sounds like you get to look and decide if you want to close or not based on what's there. I could be wrong, I'm not a dev, but that seems like the point of the ability to me.
Yeah. It would be cool if the scenario power was before you attempted to close the location, so that it could tempt to you leave the location open if you saw something you wanted. Of course, the henchman would be gone, so you'd be costing yourself lots of turns if you did that.
That would be neat to see.
Yeah. It would be cool if the scenario power was before you attempted to close the location, so that it could tempt to you leave the location open if you saw something you wanted. Of course, the henchman would be gone, so you'd be costing yourself lots of turns if you did that.
That would be neat to see.
I did believe this was the intent, and how I played it.
So I ran through this scenario again with another party of heroes and again the question arose so I spent some more time looking into it.
Question for the forums - Where is the "immediately" rule defined in the game. Its not explained in the rule book (that I can find doing a search for the word.) The FAQ references "immediately" in reference to extra explorations and explains that the word "immediately" will be removed in future games. So where is this rule?
Barring the word "immediately" both the scenario power and the henchman power (to close the location) are triggered by the defeat of the monster. When the game tells you to do two things at the same time you get to chose the order.
By that reasoning you could choose the look through the location deck before attempting to close. (Of course is all hinges on where "immediately" is defined.)
Anyways each time I play this scenario I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly. Would appreciate hearing something official as to whether after defeating a Giant henchman you can examine the location deck before attempting to close location... or not.
Chief Technical Officer
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First off, the word "immediately" is not being removed from the game, just from cards that say things like "you may immediately explore again." And the reason for that is that the requirement for immediacy is moving from the card to the rulebook: "If a card grants you an additional exploration, after you finish what you are doing, you must immediately use that exploration or forfeit it." More importantly, all of this only applies to additional explorations, and has no bearing on the word "immediately" in general.
Like many words in the game, it isn't defined in the rulebook—it's defined in the dictionary:
im·me·di·ate·ly adverb
: with no person or thing in between
: without any delay
So if you're told to do something immediately, don't do another thing in between the thing you're doing now and the thing you need to do immediately.
Yes, when the game tells you to do two things at the same time, you get to choose the order, but in this case, it's not telling you to do two things at the same time—it's telling you to do one of them immediately.
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The previous decision/explanation by Vic is to be enforced [immediately - but that goes without saying :-)].
Yes, when the game tells you to do two things at the same time, you get to choose the order, but in this case, it's not telling you to do two things at the same time—it's telling you to do one of them immediately.
Got it... thanks. That's how I've been playing it based on my understanding but it makes the scenario Power really rare which threw up a red flag in my mind. I just went through my deck of monsters through Adv 4. There are a total of 3 monsters with the Giant Trait (2 Cyclops and 1 Saltwater Troll.) So unless you give up your immediate chance to close when you defeat one of the Giant henchmen you're odds of using the scenario Power are pretty low... thus my question. Appreciate the response.
... And end up encountering the same giant many times. But then I agree you will get the benefit only once... Because you would reexamine a location you already know.
This said Vic we NEVER fail to close because we're just fantastic mighty Heroes of Golarion.