I've been watching the Netflix show Marco Polo and I got really excited about 100 Eyes. For those that don't know, stereotypical blind sensei who's awesome at martial arts.
I was thinking Oracle of Lore (to match Irori) with the Blind Curse. Eventually getting Tremorsense boots, Blind Fighting and the Improved version, but how can I "optimize" this as much as possible? I've heard people using Monk/Clerics but I can't find the threads. This is PFS and I have all the racial boons besides the auction ones, all of the major books (Ultimate X, Advance X, etc.) and most of the splat books, so feel free to use anything legal.
Is this character starting out as a level one human?
Yes he'll be starting out level 1 human... I guess I could use GM credit and make him level 3.
There might be something in the horizon walker prestige class that provides blind sense or something like that. Up until then, blind fight is your best option, but being blind is a really difficult obstacle to overcome.
EDIT: Uggg, it looks like you would have to wait until 6th level to become a HW, then after 5 levels you could get tremor sense. That is not going to make for a fun character. Perhaps the best thing would be to work up something custom with your GM.
Like Jiggy said, I won't actually be blind, just have clouded vision. Eventually I'll get the Blindfold that gives Improved Blindfighting, and Tremor boots.
As far as classes I'm up for anything. I was looking at Paladin of Irori, or Champion of Irori, just uses unarmed strikes.
It'll be hard to generate a character that is playable at low levels, when you are basing your concept on an aged sensei whose been studying and compensating for his blindness his whole life. Appropriately, the 'Clouded Vision' curse doesn't really provide any significant benefits until 10th and 15th level (A Gnome, Halfling, or Tengu could get those sooner with their Oracle FCBs). Improved Blind-Fight will not be available until 10th level. Greater Blind-Fight will not be available until 15th level.
Basically, you'll be hurting during early levels, with the only real benefit being short range darkvision. It is also very hard to play a clouded vision character properly. You have to constantly avoid meta-gaming knowledge of what is more than 30 feet from you.
Tengus have a racial archetype called Shigenjo for oracles that really has a martial artist vibe. You even get a ki pool. Combine this with the Tengu's eastern weapon racial trait and you've got a lot of the flavor there. Not sure what you'd want for a Mystery, but you have plenty of options.
Yeah I'm not a fan of Tengu but I'll check it out. I get that it may take a bunch of levels to get him where I really want him, I really just want an unarmed fighter that has the Clouded Vision curse. I'd like him to be viable, but doesn't have to be ultra optimized.
I'm really looking to get as many things on a couple of stats as I can, be it CHA and STR or WIS and CHA or whatever.
|
If it wasn't PFS - I'd suggest the combat focus feats from 3.5 - eventually you get a permanent blindsight of 5ft. With Keen Listener (feat from the same book) it makes blind characters pretty viable. I ran one back in 3.5 - it was fun. And he used a tower shield (more viable back in 3.5 as it could provide cover to others) to have an impact in ranged combats.
Okay let me try something else. I want to play an unarmed type with the Clouded Vision curse, anyone have any tips or build suggestions?
It sounds like the only reason for looking at an oracle at all is because of the blindness being a sort of class feature, but what you really want to play is a Monk. Unfortunately, with this being PFS, the only way you're going to get what you want is to either multiclass, or take that sort of monk/oracle hybrid that unfortunately is restricted to one of the really weird player races in the game.
Aside from the fact that most PFS gm's are going to hate having to deal with a blind player at the table, the fact that you are going to have to jump through so many rule hoops to get a weaker character than you really would envision is going to be bothersome to you as well.
If this wasn't PFS, I'd work up curse/trait/template/whatever that pretty much causes blindness permanently, but then grants blind-fight or other benefits as a bonus feat at certain levels.
The actual Blinded condition even states that 'Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.' but doesn't define what that means. The Oracle Curse, being an oracle curse, eventually makes the blind person more perceptive than a normally sighted one - just for weird oracle kicks - but I'm not sure that's really required for the flavor you are trying to go for.
Clouded Vision Oracle, into Iroran Paladin.
Yeah I'm thinking this is the best route. Anyone have any advice for this build?
Off the top of my head, go Oracle of Lore, which matches Irori and allows me to use CHA for AC and REF saves, but would that stack with Confident Defense?
Yes. You should be able to add your CHA bonus multiple times if it is not from the same ability. I'm not 100% sure on this though.
Also, Noble Scion (War) will give you CHA to initiative.
|
Actually, no. Confident Defense and Sidestep Secret do not stack per this FAQ. Confident Defense adds an untyped bonus equal to your CHA bonus, which is the same as your CHA bonus per the faq.
Actually, no. Confident Defense and Sidestep Secret do no stack per this FAQ. Confident Defense adds an untyped bonus equal to your CHA bonus, which is the same as your CHA bonus per the faq.
I'll take your word for it, but after reading that, I'm even more confused than I was before.
I read this sentence:However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier
And got excited thinking it would actual work. Then I read the rest and now I have no idea what they're talking about.
EDIT: After reading the two abilities, I think they stack too. One replaces and one adds too, and since I can't make heads or tails of that FAQ, I'm gonna go with that.
|
|
I think they stack because one is replacing your dexterity bonus, the other is adding to it. Under that interpretation things like Dragon Style wouldn't work at all.
Yep. They made a separate FAQ for Dragon Style to make it work after this FAQ.
|
|
Actually, no. Confident Defense and Sidestep Secret do no stack per this FAQ. Confident Defense adds an untyped bonus equal to your CHA bonus, which is the same as your CHA bonus per the faq.I'll take your word for it, but after reading that, I'm even more confused than I was before.
I read this sentence:
However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifierAnd got excited thinking it would actual work. Then I read the rest and now I have no idea what they're talking about.
EDIT: After reading the two abilities, I think they stack too. One replaces and one adds too, and since I can't make heads or tails of that FAQ, I'm gonna go with that.
It doesn't matter, you can't add you ability modifier to the same roll twice.
Basically the faq is making your ability modifier a new bonus type. You always had enhancement bonuses, insight bonuses, luck, and so on. Now you have [ability] as well. And an untyped bonus equal to an ability counts as that ability.
Because Confident Defense is an untyped bonus equal to your CHA modifier, it counts as your CHA modifier.
It doesn't stack.
So if they said Confident Defense was a dodge bonus equal to your level up to your CHA modifier that would stack, but because they didn't type the bonus, it doesn't work.
After re-reading everything I agree with you that that's how it's supposed to work RAW. I don't like it though, and don't think it should work that way in this instance.
Have you heard of the Mist Assassin build? That might be what you are looking for.
No I haven't do you have a link?
Congratulations for a highly unoriginal concept. I pray it will be a great deal of fun for you, and will not cause your fellow players a great deal of headache.
I shall give you the same advice I have given the last umpteenth or so blind adventurers:
Ever read The Dark Elf Trilogy? Montolio DeBrouchee is an excellent example of how to fight blind, even with ranged weapons.
Montolio was a blind archer ranger who would send his animal companion (a falcon) flying over his enemies' heads. The bird of prey would then call out to its master so Montolio always knew precisely where to shoot his arrows.
I can totally imagine a blind ranger doing this quite well with greater blind-fight, a flying animal companion, and full attacks.
Maybe you could emulate something similar with a Zen Archer monk archetype?
Try talking with your GM about giving you Blindsight or Blindsense instead of feat or something like that. This is the easiest way of creating such character.People who are blind for a long time don't get free benefits (or rather, they shouldn't). They "adapt" by taking appropriate feats/skills (the APG blind-fight line and the Racial Heritage/Keen Scent feats along with Perception) and adopting appropriate mannerisms (like folding money and having round buttons on all your red clothes and square buttons on all your blue clothes).
Roleplayers playing a "blind swordsman" only to get something BETTER THAN SIGHT such as blindsight FOR FREE is a BIG pet peeve of mine.
If you want to be blind REALLY be blind. Being blind is a handicap. Make it as such.
Allow me to help with a few suggestions:
Step 1) Declare that your character is blind. This means he will suffer the following penalties: You cannot see. You take a –2 penalty to Armor Class, lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and take a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) against you. You must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half your speed. If you fail this fail this check you fall prone. If your character has remained blind for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them (by getting a walking stick, by folding your bills, and training with feats and skills, NOT be getting blindsense or blindsight for free).
Step 2) Mitigate the penalties as much as you can. Start with a high Wisdom score, max out your ranks in Perception, and take feats such as Alertness, Blind-Fight, Greater Blind-Fight, Improved Blind-Fight, and Skill Focus (Perception). This will allow you to better "hear" where the enemy is at and allow you to avoid ranged attacks coming out of the darkness.
Step 3) Play the character and understand that no matter what you do, he is handicapped. Playing such a difficult challenge will be a lot of fun if your GM cooperates a little.
Blind people feel the shape of the buttons on their clothes. The shapes correspond with the colors of their clothes. That way a blind person can match his clothes and look nice. They also fold their money different ways so they can tell which bills are which. If you do a bit of research, you will find that there are tons of neat little tricks that blind people use to get by in every day life--adapting after years of being blind.
What the book refers to when it says "Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them" is not a mystical higher sense thing, but more of a learned skill thing.
Researching and utilizing a lot of these tricks should help make for a much better roleplaying experience.
I hope that helps.
Congratulations for a highly unoriginal concept. I pray it will be a great deal of fun for you, and will not cause your fellow players a great deal of headache.
Thanks. I design all my characters with the deepest hope that you will approve of them.
I also appreciate you taking the time to read the thread before actually responding. I would hate to be disappointed in my expectations of internet conversations.
I did read your thread. I still think some of that advice could easily apply to your oracle. Even if you don't think so, it still might come in handy for someone coming into your thread thinking they want to make a blind swordsman or something.
It may be cheating, but a summoner through Bond Senses, or a Synthesist through fused eidolon has acces to their eidolon's senses.
A Bladebound Magus's Black Blade can communicate with him telepathically, and has senses like a normal creature. I'm not sure exactly how the rules on Ego work, but you could probably even pass control to the blade during fighting.
I came up with something similar, it works really well for the blind archer. A Hunter at 4th level can use his companion's eyes. Not really the right for fluff for a monk, but it's something
I shall give you the same advice I have given the last umpteenth or so blind adventurers:......
I think I understand where you are coming from, but please help me make sure:
You've noticed that a lot of players like the concept of a blind character, but don't like their trying to express that mechanically with a super-sensory character that has a bunch of free mechanical advantages over an ordinary character.
Does your frustration with this stem from the mechanical side, or something else?
If it's the mechanical side, I'm totally on board with that. It's important to make sure whatever method the player and GM use to express the character concept is fair to the other players.
If it's something else, could you help me understand what?
I think I understand where you are coming from, but please help me make sure:
You've noticed that a lot of players like the concept of a blind character, but don't like their trying to express that mechanically with a super-sensory character that has a bunch of free mechanical advantages over an ordinary character.
Does your frustration with this stem from the mechanical side, or something else?
If it's the mechanical side, I'm totally on board with that. It's important to make sure whatever method the player and GM use to express the character concept is fair to the other players.
If it's something else, could you help me understand what?
It's pretty much the mechanical balance for the most part, and also the fact that many players* attempt to use a self-described handicap in order to have their characters become MORE powerful. Misleading the GM with a handicap that's not a handicap is a disingenuous way to power game to say the least.
* I'm sure many players are sincerely interested in the concept, and not out to make a mechanical power grab, but if that's the case, then they should be fine with letting a handicap be what it is, and trying to find interesting (non-free) ways around it.
I think I understand where you are coming from, but please help me make sure:
You've noticed that a lot of players like the concept of a blind character, but don't like their trying to express that mechanically with a super-sensory character that has a bunch of free mechanical advantages over an ordinary character.
Does your frustration with this stem from the mechanical side, or something else?
If it's the mechanical side, I'm totally on board with that. It's important to make sure whatever method the player and GM use to express the character concept is fair to the other players.
If it's something else, could you help me understand what?
It's pretty much the mechanical balance for the most part, and also the fact that many players* attempt to use a self-described handicap in order to have their characters become MORE powerful. Misleading the GM with a handicap that's not a handicap is a disingenuous way to power game to say the least.
* I'm sure many players are sincerely interested in the concept, and not out to make a mechanical power grab, but if that's the case, then they should be fine with letting a handicap be what it is, and trying to find interesting (non-free) ways around it.
Well, honestly, that's how all the Oracle curses work. Start off with a handicap, and end up more powerful in the end.
CraziFuzzy, the oracle curse is a class feature, so it's something for which the character has "paid." Instead of getting uncanny dodge or whatever, he gets this class feature.
Ravingdork, In 3.5, the thinking was that the benefit should be considerably worse than the drawback since players will invariably minimize the costs and maximize the benefits; shaky melee fighters and non-combatant archers, for example, were much more common than shaky archers and non-combatant melee fighters.
This case is especially difficult because even half the value of sight in additional powers and abilities would be of significant magnitude if applied to something other than mitigating the drawbacks.
To offset the penalties of being blinded, you'd need something like:
+2 to AC, Uncanny Dodge, +4 to all strength and dexterity based skills, +4 to opposed perception, the ability to ignore miss chances due to concealment, and a way to overcome the limits on your move speed, as well as a way to pinpoint targets without sight.
So I made this trait.
It's basically just worse than being sighted, but there are some corner cases that'd see you be more effective than your fellow adventurers. This is consistent with Zatoichi putting out the lights and suddenly being _even_ _more_ dangerous, you know?