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Will Paizo ever be publishing high resolution (suitable for printing at scale) maps for it's modules? I really want to run The Dragon's Demand for my group, but I always print the maps, and the maps for this one are so compressed in the PDF that they really suck when blown up to scale.
I'd be willing to pay extra for this. Jared Blando is doing for your competitor exactly what I'd like to see Paizo do. For example:
http://theredepic.bigcartel.com/category/hoard-of-the-dragon-queen-digital- downloads
+1 from me.
I love the products from Paizo, but since I like to play online (via Roll20.net) I need the maps in my computer in high quality (in terms of resolution and compression). I usually buy the PDFs since i have to get all the stuff into the computer anyway. Those PDFs are generally great, but the way the maps are (in terms of resolution and compression) is nowhere near to being usable in a VTT (at least within the products I own).
I'm especially disappointed with the Jade Regent AP I recently bought.
Don't get me wrong on this! The AP itself is awesome, the PDFs look great, the story is fantastic, the maps look good as well if you see them as a part of the general artwork of the AP, but they are simply too small, too lowres and to heavily compressed to be used in a VTT. The same sadly is true for the "We be goblins!" module kind-of-prequel to that AP.
Even the interactive map-pack (which is included in the PDF download) just uses the same lowres maps that are used within the PDFs. If you would provide us online VTT gamers with high quality (in terms of VTT usage) maps I would gladly pay something extra for them.
Chief Technical Officer
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Please see this post. It's five years old, and was written to address the Pathfinder AP line specifically, but the situation has not changed in any significant way, and holds true for any product line.
With few exceptions, the only maps we commission at full-resolution 1":5' scale are our Flip-Mats and Map Packs. (You might want to see this.)
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Sad that yall are willing to Lose Money from Loyal Fans simple because your unwilling to have High Resolution Maps.
How Much does it Cost to Store an Electronic Version of a Map.
How Much Does it Cost to Send a High Resolution Map...
I have Used several Mappers..It only Takes a Few Extra Minutes to Save as a PDF..A JPG..A PNG or a Battlemap for printing..
There are plenty of Willing of Loyal Customers wanting and Needing the Product..I have provided for free for years all of my recreated Battlemaps.
Many of Us are willing to accept the Cost of Printing a Map at our own expense.
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Please see this post. It's five years old, and was written to address the Pathfinder AP line specifically, but the situation has not changed in any significant way, and holds true for any product line.
With few exceptions, the only maps we commission at full-resolution 1":5' scale are our Flip-Mats and Map Packs. (You might want to see this.)
Are the resolution that the maps appear as in the modules the same resolution that you receive them from the artists? If they're shrunk down I'd be more than willing to pay a little extra for the map at the original resolution to make stretching for roll20 less painful. However if they come as is then there's really nothing to be done.
JPSTOD you might want to actually read the link Vic gave. It's specifically addressing the cost involved in making a purely electronic version of the map at 1 inch scale. The issue is how much an artist charges for including that much detail, not the issue of printing.
Yeah they order them in '1/2 page map' or '1/4 page map' and thats the size they get
Are the resolution that the maps appear as in the modules the same resolution that you receive them from the artists?
Well shoot.
High resolution maps are an incredible amount of work—a decent one will take many, many hours to include the level of detail you'd expect at a 1" to 5' scale.
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I typically spend about 2 Hours recreating the Maps in Modules in Dungeon Designer 3...If Dundjinni worked on Windows 8 I could do one Faster. Within Minutes I can Save a File and I can do it with and Without Text..I can save it Multiple Format.
I am about to spend some Hours ..Projecting Several of the Dragon's Demand Outdoor Maps on to Foam Board to cut out at 1'=5" Scale for a Modular Map :)
Campaign Cartographer 3+ is Out...Love the Look of the Artwork so Far..Looks like it Works a lot Faster on Newer Machines.
Maybe it Might be time to Have a Cartographer Submission Contest. Plenty of Up and Coming Cartographers. I would love to Do some Maps.
Would I rather spend time or Money on Hi Res Maps to Spend Money to Print.....My Answer...Money. Time could be Spent on Game Secessions and Not Prep Work...
We are Not asking for Printed Maps but an Electronic File..
(http://www.cartographersguild.com/members/jpstod.html)
404'd
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I'm a professional RPG cartographer who has done maps for many RPG publishers including the original hand-drawn map of the city of Kasai, for Paizo Publishing's The Empty Throne module of the Jade Regent Adventure Path, as well as many Pathfinder 3PP including Rite Publishing and Raging Swan Press, and many non-PF publishers like Iron Crown Enterprises, FASA Games, Dog House Rulez, ProFantasy software and more. I can attest that indeed RPG cartography is one of the most expensive freelance costs to RPG publishers. This is why most RPG products that include maps, generally include only 1 and rarely up to 3 maps per product.
Consider the city of Kasai map. I only created the hand-drawn, B/W, pen and ink map as my part of the commission. Paizo's inhouse cartographer finished the map by adding color and some depth effects for the buildings (which I could have done myself, but Paizo wanted to maintain a consistent look with the other maps from the AP.) However, the hand-drawn portion took me a full 16 hours to create, including over 8500 hand-drawn buildings for an intended population, well over 100K inhabitants. It was the most time-consuming map I ever created. I will say that I'm probably one of the fastest RPG cartographers in the industry, but I'm not cheap.
Because Rite Publishing's Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) is my published homebrew, I have a lot of say, in what gets included with each Kaidan product, and since I am a cartographer, Kaidan products feature more maps than most other RPG products out there. I charge less per map as a personal investment into the product line, because it is my project - something I can't afford to do for other publishers. Consider that the first module of the Kaidan intro AP, The Curse of the Golden Spear: The Gift - Part 1 features 7 maps for a single adventure. You won't see that in any other RPG product, as it would be cost prohibitive to do so. I even include a map in several rules supplements, like Way of the Samurai (PFRPG) - something nobody else does.
While printing maps is certainly an expensive proposition compared to digital only maps, those are only afterthoughts in the process. The time spent designing, constructing and detailing maps is where the cost lies for publishers and though I enjoy doing it, is an incredible amount of work.
Also consider that I charge considerably less to tabletop RPG publishers, than to other industries. I also create maps for strategy guides for console games like Activision Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare, and I get much more in commissions to what I charge for any tabletop RPG publisher, both because its mainstream and the video industry can afford what I really should be paid.
Consider that for the work I do to create a tabletop RPG map, though it is expensive to publishers, technically, I'm getting paid roughly about 50% more than minimum wage to do so...
Regarding resolution and maps. I provide to publishers maps that are usually designed at 24 x 36 inches at 300 dpi, but then it is rescaled to what the publisher needs usually something smaller than 8 x 10 inches.
They larger resolution initial maps would make for nifty digital sales.
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The resolution isn't *that* bad, especially if you pull them from the interactive map PDF into photoshop.
The "Take Snapshot" tool on Acrobat works better if you zoom in. You may need to take three or four snapshots and piece them together. It blows up fairly well. Not Flip Mat quality but pretty good. I printed a bunch for my Rise of the Runelords campaign and most looked pretty good, especially the full-page ones.
(I even sent them to gamer-printer above to get a few of the key maps done as posters. Those turned out excellent.)
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Creative Director
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It's not just a matter of map size and cost; it's also a matter of time. It simply takes longer for EVERYTHING with a super high res map; to create it, to manipulate it, to load it, to PDF it, and even to store it.
It's something folks have been asking for for quite some time... and it's still not something we can provide, given all the other things we have to get done on a monthly basis. Perhaps some day... but not today.
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It's not just a matter of map size and cost; it's also a matter of time. It simply takes longer for EVERYTHING with a super high res map; to create it, to manipulate it, to load it, to PDF it, and even to store it.
It's something folks have been asking for for quite some time... and it's still not something we can provide, given all the other things we have to get done on a monthly basis. Perhaps some day... but not today.
Could interactive map PDFs be released for non-APS, such as the modules?
Or Emerald Spire.Even that could help as being able to strip the grid and map notes clears up the image a bunch.
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We are not asking for extra Maps and we are not asking for Printed Maps..We are asking for Digital Files of High RES Quality to use in VVT or Print Out ourselves.
Paizo would not get Stuck with any Unwanted Printed Maps...No Physical Stock to Warehouse...No Product to Ship...No Worries about Returns etc..
I might have missed it further up... but where can you get detailed maps of all Golarion?
I got a Question for you....
If A Fan Created for Free a High Res Version of the Maps...
Would Yall Consider Hosting Them?
From what I understand it takes a lot of time to even setup the source for the digital version of a hi-res map. It also takes more money to get that level of detail.
In one of those links they said if someone could do it at fast enough rate to not slow them down, at a cheap enough price, maintain quality, and as a licensor that might work.
I doubt they will be storing fan-made stuff, but if you want to get into business with them, then you might be able to make this happen.
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I am interested...and I am Not even interested in Getting Paid to do it...
I have experience with Dundjinni (which is Effectively dead and won't work on Windows 8 so I need to find an older Computer with Windows 98 that still works to use. It had the Most Amount of Artwork) and in Campaign Cartographer 3 (Campaign Cartographer 3+ has just been released with New Style by Mike Schley). Here is an Example of the New Map. https://secure.profantasy.com/products/cc3plus/jaw.jpg I can usually reproduce a Map in less than 1 Hour. Faster if I can get a Good Quality original where I can see Grid lines better..Since A Map would not have to be scaled and Laid out to fit a Publication They are easily done.
As for Saving the Files. I can save in mere minutes to produce a Battle Map scaled at 50 Pixels per 5 Foot...And I can do it With and Without Grids in mere minutes also..
I can also save as PDFs. I can save in JPG or PNG file Formats
Granted they are not perfect Matches to The Originals because of Lack of Identical Artwork and Different pen styles...Sometimes it is Difficult to Map because the Original Artist does not do perfect Gridline Coordination...Sometime A wall is about 1/3 or Barely over a Gridline..A room might be 12 foot wide instead of 10 or 15 foot wide. I do mine to 5 foot increments...everything fits on 5 Foot Squares.
I make sure that every Map I share gives credit to the Original Cartographer and Paizo Publishing
I wish Paizo would create a Interactive Atlas like was done for Forgotten Realms years ago
I don't have Photoshop on any of my computers, but this Blow Up plugin from Alien Skin Software looks like it might at least be worth looking into. It would be cool if somebody could try it out using the free trial, and post the results.
If Paizo doesn't have any high-resolution maps, something like this is probably the best we could hope for. Not sure if GIMP would have any equivalent plugin or results.
I'm not well versed in editing images, I'm not sure if their comparison images are intentionally leaving out a step like softening the image or something compared to their product's results, so please excuse my ignorance if this point is mute.
snapshot the map
paste into editing software at 100dpi
calculate percentage for increasing to 1" = 5' scale
posterazor it up
print
I do not really understand the problem
Is the map 100% picture perfect crystal clear? No
Is the map clear enough and pretty enough to use? Yes
I've been doing this for a long time now based on PFS scenarios, modules and APs. They look great on the table and the look on the faces of my players when they see them far outweighs the effort and toil put in to make them.
IF this is a PbP thing, cool, but I see people mentioning printing and I just do not get it.
I would love to see svg files used, then maps could be scaled on demand, I especially like maps that look good over 2100x, larger png formatted files could also be just be easier to use but then formatting is limited and file sizes will be significantly larger than using smaller svg files.
I am not an artist, I've briefly used inkscape, I'm sure it's a challenge to translate hand drawn maps to digital formats, but getting maps into svg, especially if you can create individual tokens of interesting features would be a great boon for people who use VTT.
Pathfinder could definitely innovate in this space, it would be especially exciting if they continue in the spirit of open source and encourage their community to use open source tools and formats for map making tools and the maps themselves.
My issue is that I run most of my games on a virtual tabletop since my group has gone their separate ways over the years... getting old is rough LoL. I would be happy if i could just get the interactive maps for my modules, i would even be willing to pay like $2 or $3 extra for the convenience of being able to use the maps without the map keys on them... nothing worse than having to force your party to pretend they don't see that big S or boxed T on the map because the image from the module wont let me get rid of it without mangling the map in a an editor program.
I don't need them sized up or anything, I don't mind it it loses some quality when it gets sized up, especially since we tend to size it match the grid online then zoom out so we can see most the map anyway.
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My issue is that I run most of my games on a virtual tabletop since my group has gone their separate ways over the years... getting old is rough LoL. I would be happy if i could just get the interactive maps for my modules, i would even be willing to pay like $2 or $3 extra for the convenience of being able to use the maps without the map keys on them... nothing worse than having to force your party to pretend they don't see that big S or boxed T on the map because the image from the module wont let me get rid of it without mangling the map in a an editor program.
Do the Interactive Maps not work for you? I turn those tags off and then make copies for the virtual tabletop from the tag free maps. No S or T markers visible.
I think Arakis Ward is talking about the Module line, not the APs that offer Interactive Map Packs.
Arakis, just using the normal PDFs of the module, I can Copy the images without the text using Adobe Reader, Paste them into Paint, save them, and have text-free maps for Map Tool. I just have to use Copy/Paste rather than taking a screenshot.
I think Arakis Ward is talking about the Module line, not the APs that offer Interactive Map Packs.
Arakis, just using the normal PDFs of the module, I can Copy the images without the text using Adobe Reader, Paste them into Paint, save them, and have text-free maps for Map Tool. I just have to use Copy/Paste rather than taking a screenshot.
I will have to look more into it, but whenever i use the copy for the map images the text come too. It's been a long time since i have had to work at it since i haven't run a game in a while. I will re download one of my modules and check it out again. Thanks