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Just speaking the truth for once. Tire of being nice to someone who isn't.
And no, I'm not taking this one down. Andius deserves a good personal rip if he wants to keep coming back here and bullying us.
Goblin Squad Member
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I can build my friends up and tear my foes down as well thank you much. And I enjoy them both immensely. ^.^Ok, so you are an a$*$%*~ troll who likes to hang out with other a*!%&$~ trolls. Or rather, I am guessing you are an a&+*!&+ troll who hangs out with "friends" that do what you tell them to and don't question you or disagree with you. If they didn't bow down to you and your "wisdom and intelligence" they'd be "weak and foolish" and you wouldn't bother with them (or, rather, you would bully them and extract glee from their suffering). Oh, because hey, that's what all of us do: stand up to you/not agree with you and then get told we are weak, foolish, dumb, etc for not seeing your viewpoint and
quitting the gamemaking the game in your image.You're inability to concede defeat- even a partial one- is shear weakness on your part. You act big; but we all know the plain and simple truth. You are small inside and can't stand the harsh realities of the world- those realities being that you are a nobody in the world who is not all that wise and not the know-it-all master-of-all-MMOs that you say you are. Without your self-illusion, inside yourself, you would be nothing. For that is all Ego is. Nothing with a whole lot of nothing surrounding it to try to make it look like something- to try to fill a void left by a s+~+ty childhood.
You'll never change, though. You're too emotionally unintelligent and unaware to ever question your own self-illusion and seek the help that you need. Pity. You are actually a very intelligent person; but that intelligence will forever be limited by an emotionally and socially immature child inside an adult's body.
Ouch, that was a good play of forum PVP. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I can appreciate a well written, scathing retort.
I have quite a history with Andius, here on these boards, and I have been on both sides with him.
I can say a few things positive about him, first and foremost, he is entertaining (if you're into that kind of thing). Secondly, he had been offered a position of middle power (officer) within the UnNamed Company, and he turned it down. His reasons were admirable, wanting to build his own thing rather than starting from a position given to him.
His shortcoming is in his self righteous, zealotry of his opinion and an over rated view of certain games as Open World PVP MMOs.
It is all an entertaining read, and I thank you both... LOL, ;-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf's posts about LiF's advancement system.Um, so basically you mean to say that LiF's system is exactly like PFO's system, except not. I mean, even 're'spec'ing' in LiF is no different from PFO: all it costs is time. The difference I see is that PFO's feat system does not require you to give up your old skillset just so you can take a new one- so nothing is really lost.
No.... Actually, they are very different. The biggest difference is that Attributes affect your effectiveness with skills, not that skills are gated by attributes. The effect of this is that you never have to train a skill that it not in the direct skill tree of your planned role / profession / combat focus. That is not the same as in PFO, where everyone is forced to train gathering, refining or crafting skills in order to raise attributes needed for the four main roles.
As I explained to Decious, yes both games involve expending time, but LiF does not waste that time in skill areas you have no interest in. Even the skills you need as a prerequisite provide several benefits, including material resources, while engaging in them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That is not the same as in PFO, where everyone is forced to train gathering, refining or crafting skills in order to raise attributes needed for the four main roles.
This statement is factually incorrect.
You might have to train attack feats in multiple weapons or armor feats you weren't planning to use, but it has been demonstrated for all four main roles, that you can advance without training any gathering, refining or crafting skills.|
Goblin Squad Member
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LiF is a game with interesting ideas behind it. I'm not a fan of the Minecraft elements, and while I know the mini-game aspect for crafting is optional, it really kills the feel of it for me. Just a personal dislike for the trend of adding mini-games to MMOs. Reminds me too much of Facebook.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That is not the same as in PFO, where everyone is forced to train gathering, refining or crafting skills in order to raise attributes needed for the four main roles.This statement is factually incorrect.
You might have to train attack feats in multiple weapons or armor feats you weren't planning to use, but it has been demonstrated for all four main roles, that you can advance without training any gathering, refining or crafting skills.
Gathering, refining and crafting skills no longer increase attributes? And they do not do so more efficiently (cheaper cost) than training various weapon skills to four or five?
What is factual is that you have to waste training, by your own admission, in skills you may not wish to use, but only doing so to get some secondary advantage. The same does not hold true for LiF in comparison.
Your statement disregards efficiency and the likelihood that most will use the more efficient methods to raise attributes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your statement disregards efficiency and the likelihood that most will use the more efficient methods to raise attributes.
Moving goalposts?
If you had said "you can find an efficient way to raise your attributes by mixing in gathering skills.", or "most character builds will want to add some gathering skills or crafting skills to maximize their effectiveness," then I would be in complete agreement with you.
However, what you actually said was:
everyone is forced to train gathering, refining or crafting skills in order to raise attributes needed for the four main roles.
That statement is incorrect, and hasn't been true since Alpha build 8 or 9. Please don't provide false information about existing game mechanics.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Gathering, refining and crafting skills no longer increase attributes? And they do not do so more efficiently (cheaper cost) than training various weapon skills to four or five?
What is factual is that you have to waste training, by your own admission, in skills you may not wish to use, but only doing so to get some secondary advantage. The same does not hold true for LiF in comparison.
Your statement disregards efficiency and the likelihood that most will use the more efficient methods to raise attributes.
Using crafting skills is highly inefficient.
A dedicated character should spend their XP on role features like domains and schools. And yes, weapon skills for adventurers will need to be at least four to qualify for Tier 2 item usage.
When was the last time you created a new character Bluddwolf? I bought a few accounts a few patches ago and the attribute gates were not a problem for me at all.
Not only is crafting or gathering no longer required, with the increase in crafting xp costs and lowered gathering ability boosts it's now suboptimal. Having multiple features, armor and attacks trained gives you far more options as an adventurer to swap out feats. The exponential increase in the cost of each of those skills means by Tier 2 you're making tough choices on how many days to wait to boost one option over another even within a subset of role training, and by Tier 3 it takes months of xp patience to specialize in any given feat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That is not the same as in PFO, where everyone is forced to train gathering, refining or crafting skills in order to raise attributes needed for the four main roles.This statement is factually incorrect.
You might have to train attack feats in multiple weapons or armor feats you weren't planning to use, but it has been demonstrated for all four main roles, that you can advance without training any gathering, refining or crafting skills.Gathering, refining and crafting skills no longer increase attributes? And they do not do so more efficiently (cheaper cost) than training various weapon skills to four or five?
What is factual is that you have to waste training, by your own admission, in skills you may not wish to use, but only doing so to get some secondary advantage. The same does not hold true for LiF in comparison.
Your statement disregards efficiency and the likelihood that most will use the more efficient methods to raise attributes.
Bluddwolf, things have changed a bit, they did an entire overhaul to the system. Its cheaper to dip into your own Role, than it is into Crafting/Gathering/Refining. That is no long the case entirely, specific setups might require you to dip into places you don't need (looking at you Con and Per), but the rest is solid within itself.
CEO
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Just to be 100% clear, we did internal tests where there were way more than 42 clients per hex when we did our own stress test of the game. There is no way in heck that we would have launched to EE without doing a much bigger stress test of our own and making sure the game was up to the challenge.
The 42 number comes from the Brighthaven test that they ran. The previous test they had run bogged down around 20 clients, so having 42 and suffering no problems was considered a success by them. But our standard was much higher than that.
Just to clear things up.
-Lisa
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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That is not the same as in PFO, where everyone is forced to train gathering, refining or crafting skills in order to raise attributes needed for the four main roles.This statement is factually incorrect.
You might have to train attack feats in multiple weapons or armor feats you weren't planning to use, but it has been demonstrated for all four main roles, that you can advance without training any gathering, refining or crafting skills.Gathering, refining and crafting skills no longer increase attributes? And they do not do so more efficiently (cheaper cost) than training various weapon skills to four or five?
What is factual is that you have to waste training, by your own admission, in skills you may not wish to use, but only doing so to get some secondary advantage. The same does not hold true for LiF in comparison.
Your statement disregards efficiency and the likelihood that most will use the more efficient methods to raise attributes.
Suppose instead that you were forced to train mining to train moderate levels of blacksmith. But because it's a specific skill 'in the skill tree', it's just a cost of doing business.
In other words, if you have to train "X out of Y possible choices", it's wasted training, but if you have to train all Y of them, it's just the cost of doing business? I see a multiple standard in operation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As I have stated in other places, the use of forced training (which has been reduced) is an alternative to have either higher XP cost or buying dummy feats that do nothing except being there for "training" purposes.
I see no great problem with using this model, it can be handy sometimes to know a bit more about the game...
@Bluddwolf and Gaskon:
Both of you are correct. It is possible to for a character to reach level 20 without training Refining, Crafting or Gathering skills for the attribute bonuses. However, it is sometimes more efficient to train a refining or crafting skill. Note, however, that, at most, a few months of Exp diverted is all that may be required to make ends meet. I suspect that this is due to the system currently being a rough draft- and an incomplete one at that- that hasn't been fine tuned yet.
@Bluddwolf:
If the attributes in LiF provide an actual bonus to the characters abilities, that would be one major difference between LiF and PFO's system. That said, the dev's chose to do things this way with PFO as one tool in their box of tools for limiting the ability for players to min-max. We'll have to see how that system plays out in the long term, though, before we can make any conclusions about how well it works.
@Bluddworlf:
I'm sure there are a few things positive about Andius. He might even be a genuinely good person underneath it all (and I mean that, sincerely). But right now, on these forums, he is little more than a troll- a bully. He only comes here to mock and deride us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Spitfire and Caldeathe
I think the reason I've struck such a nerve in this thread is because the wall of denial between your belief this game will succeed and the reality that it can never live up to the expectations this community had for it are crumbling. It's taking a larger degree of denial to keep it from falling completely so of course your outbursts at anyone willing to poke it with a stick grow more passionate.
I go to work and do a meaningful job then come home to a beautiful woman who is not only good to me, but describes me as the sweetest most patient man she's ever known.
I know that's probably a lot more than can be said for some of the members of the community who stick here because of their affiliation or an alliance to an organization far larger and more successful than anything they could build on their own.
I don't need your phycho-anylisis because you're not very good at it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No Andius. It has gotten to the point that you are acting trollish. You have divested yourself of participating in this game and yet you are back here being derisve about it and the people that choose to play it.
We know and accept that it is not a finished product and still choose to play. That is our choice. One that you clearly don't think we should have. You are accomplishing nothing here beyond coming across as a Trollish A~&+***.
You don't have the tools to be able to accept anyone else feeling or doing anything other than the way that you think is best. That IS a sign of some deep problems. I hope that you can get some help some day, when you finally realize and accept that you need it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey Bringslite. How active are your Pax buddies in PFO these days? (I'm sure this post will draw out one of their usual official responses but I can't help but notice how little activity they're showing otherwise. Especially given that's also what my contacts in the community have been telling me already.) Or your other friends to the NW? None of them would be making all the same conclusions about this game and the fanatics on these forums you would expect to hear in the Aragon TS prettymuch point for point would they?
I know Aragon has already declared it's scaling down this game on it's priorities list and back before I left I had to track down Freevale on their mumble where they were all playing Archeage to even get their take on the matter.
(Which makes me wonder what you'll do if there ends up being no antagonists in your supposedly PvP driven title.)
You act like dissenters are the minority. The majority just don't care enough to endure being shouted down by the crowd that inhabit these forums.
You should take your own advise. The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting there is one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. Hey, check out Pathfinder Online. It's a fantasy roleplaying MMO that is using crowd forging to guide development and over the next year or so I think it will be really fun to help make it grow from a rough, minimal game to a pretty cool sandbox world with lots of features that the game playing community helps to prioritize.
2. Umm, I don't think Pathfinder Online is ready for prime time since you are looking for a complete game experience with the latest graphics and features. But do check back in about a year, I think they are shooting for a more polished release about that timeframe.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would be surprised if anyone in Pax bothered to respond to your useless drivel at all. So, be as sure about that as you like.
Activity has fallen off accross the board for everyone as Alpha has dragged on. Some may have left for good or for a long time. What does that have to do with you needing a new hobby or some counseling for your personal issues?
I still have 4 months free play to see what they can do. I am certainly not going to throw it away because of your endless rants and doom speak.
You have no reason to be here, doing this, except that you have some pain inside that you are milking and using to make yourself feel good. It is only making you come accross as the type of person that (it used to seem) you were not fond of.
It is only a game. It will succeed or fail because of the choices of the developers. Don't approve of how it is going? Why do you care to waste your time here, then?
Are you trying to save us from using our free months or save new people from coming in? How noble! Except that a good deal of what you write here is distorted and untrue. It is just not how you want it done or in the order that you want it done.
Please move on. You are boring me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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By all means enjoy your remaining game time. I guess it's the level of denial that offends me.
When I get people who still have some interest in the game telling me "Nihimon is going off about how great PFO is because of what it's promised to deliver." It's a goad to me as effective as mine are to you apparently.
I just see (and I'm not alone) a negative feedback loop where this game is bad, and so the people who haven't sold their soul to this title leave, and then the fanboys tell them it's good, and then the game continues to be bad because they don't address the problems, and so more people who aren't fanboys leave, and then there are less people other than fanboys who still tell them its good etc. etc. etc.
At this point PFO is mainly narrowed down to rabid fanboys who will never admit that it's bad shouting down the few unfortunate individuals such as Bluddwolf who have so much invested in it that they are unwilling to simply up and leave before they see this disaster play it's course.
I feel both bad for them, and bad for a game that I invested so much passion into to be sunk by the fairly small group of individuals who will continue to to shower Ryan with complements and amend their opinions to fit whatever he says no matter what the man does.
And yes I'm quite bitter at the fanboys shouting "just leave" at anyone who wants to see a course correction rather than piling on the coal as they hurdle toward the cliff.
It's like the Star Wars Prequels where everyone was afraid to criticize the legendary George Lucas so he ended up filling the films with whatever he wanted. Except Ryan isn't a legend beyond these boards and has no previous masterpiece to point back at.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's like the Star Wars Prequels where everyone was afraid to criticize the legendary George Lucas so he ended up filling the films with whatever he wanted. Except Ryan isn't a legend beyond these boards and has no previous masterpiece to point back at.
Yay, an opportunity to derail!
Nerds are by no means afraid to criticize, anything, ever. Nerds live to criticize the things they love. It is almost as sacred a sport for them as football is to America.
George Lucas, however, just didn't care. The prequels were for a new generation of kids, not for adults that had grown up watching the show. After everyone nerd raged about Jar Jar Binks, he went on to make him arguably the most influential character in the fall of the republic.
Its like Lucas bit his thumb at the adult fans, then totes tried to pretend he was just idly biting his thumb, Sir.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm speaking more of the crew and less of the fans. In the original films Lucas was not a legend. He didn't have complete control over what went into the films and sometimes his ideas would get shot down or amended, leading to what are arguably the three most loved films of all time.
In the prequels Lucas was a legend, and there were few if any instances where things didn't go exactly the way he wanted to. And the films got a much less rosy reception though nostalgia and masochism did drive most people to go see all three.
It reminds of the comment Audocet made about how Nihimon, Mbando, Being etc. will hold one position, but if Ryan comes in and disagrees with it they will immediately change their position to fit his. That's not the kind of feedback that builds a better game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To be fair I actually was one of the few people who really enjoyed The Phantom Menace. Including Jar-Jar. I was also of the appropriate age to do so at the time.
It's the development and fall of Anakin in two and three that really killed the prequels for me. They turned the little emo boy Anakin into the stoic badass Darth Vader. And the fall was not at all convincing. One moment he's talking about how they have to take Palpatine to stand trial because it's the Jedi way, later that night he's...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, Andius, it took no psychoanalysis at all to see that you're bitter. You've made it about as obvious as it's possible to make something. Nor is the advice to look for things that make you happy a psychoanalysis, it's experience. The world is a much different place in your mid 20s to what it is in your fifties. I have been every bit as angry at things every bit as inconsequential as you are. That's why I don't hate, or even dislike you.
If you would like some psychoanalysis, here it is. I often discuss wtih my friends that people who feel they have insufficient control over their own lives are the most likely to attempt to gain power over others through petty acts. Scratching car doors over a bad parking job. Berating the cashier because their favourite item is sold out. Giving up on something, but continuing to heap scorn upon it in order to make others feel bad about it too.
If your screeds are enough to cause PFO to fail, then it deserved to fail. What you are doing makes me sad, but it doesn't hurt me, nor give you any power over me.
Take care of your lover and consider using your strength to build something fantastic, not hurt other people that don't deserve it.
Let's end this thread now. No further useful dialog is going to happen.
One simple message to Chris from you will get that accomplished, no doubt.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@sspitfire1: I recommend you do not rise to baiting and give snap back responses like that. Nothing good ever comes from that. Take a deep breath, relax and if you feel the urgent need to respond to someone who's displaying a particularly disturbing lack of understanding, just sit back, shake your head, smile, think "what a douche" and calmly move on.
In the South we just say "Isn't that special!" or at least that is what the ladies were taught, back in the day, since ladies never swore or said mean things about people. :-)