Roleplay vs the Strength of a lv 1 Character


Advice


Ultra-Short version: How "strong" should a lv 1 adventurer be, roleplay wise? How would you make a character who enjoys combat/is proud of his skills at level 1? Does that even make sense?

I know that was probably worded poorly, so here's the background.

For an upcoming campaign with some friends, I wanted to make this Samurai character go down the dazzling display / deadly stroke route I've never tried. The idea was he would, mid combat, taunt his enemies before cutting them down, enjoying the fight and bloodshed. I was also considering picking up a bladed sheath, and have him use that unless an enemy's skilled proved worthy enough to fight seriously against, etc. Condescending, infuriating to his foes, and confident in his abilities. Sounded fun to roleplay, even in combat, and I want to improve my roleplaying ability instead of just power gaming.

Then I found out the campaign is a lv 1 campaign (Curse of the Crimson Thrones, a classic I've been told). As far as I can tell, a lv 1 adventurer is a random dude who decided to pick up a sword for some reason or another, maaaybe has basic training so as not to stab himself in the foot, and possibly has more potential than the average joe. A highly skilled warrior in the making perhaps, but not yet. Is this just an example of a flawed character idea that I should scrap, or is there some way to make the ends meet?

My apologies if this is a simple or stupid question, I'm kind of new to this and insecurity might as well be my middle name. :(

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Most of your peers would be Warrior 1, so you still have an edge over them.
As for the AP, I don't know what you'll be facing.


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It starts at level 1, but doesn't end there. You just need to develop that personality over time, that's all.


A first level character Can be plenty strong. And if you decide to go with tha taunting samurai all you need is to make a solid built and you Will do fine. You May not need rules for everything when it comes to harrasing the enemy. A level 1 pc is a extraordinary person.


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Djinnistorm wrote:

Ultra-Short version: How "strong" should a lv 1 adventurer be, roleplay wise? How would you make a character who enjoys combat/is proud of his skills at level 1? Does that even make sense?

I know that was probably worded poorly, so here's the background.

For an upcoming campaign with some friends, I wanted to make this Samurai character go down the dazzling display / deadly stroke route I've never tried. The idea was he would, mid combat, taunt his enemies before cutting them down, enjoying the fight and bloodshed. I was also considering picking up a bladed sheath, and have him use that unless an enemy's skilled proved worthy enough to fight seriously against, etc. Condescending, infuriating to his foes, and confident in his abilities. Sounded fun to roleplay, even in combat, and I want to improve my roleplaying ability instead of just power gaming.

Then I found out the campaign is a lv 1 campaign (Curse of the Crimson Thrones, a classic I've been told). As far as I can tell, a lv 1 adventurer is a random dude who decided to pick up a sword for some reason or another, maaaybe has basic training so as not to stab himself in the foot, and possibly has more potential than the average joe. A highly skilled warrior in the making perhaps, but not yet. Is this just an example of a flawed character idea that I should scrap, or is there some way to make the ends meet?

My apologies if this is a simple or stupid question, I'm kind of new to this and insecurity might as well be my middle name. :(

You're well beyond basic training. Elite training, but not a lot of actual practice?

Random dude who picked up a sword would be a Commoner.
Basic training would be Warrior.
PC martial class is a step up from that.

I'd go with it. He's certainly going to run into people tougher than him, but that's pretty much true in any game. There will also be those weaker, even at 1st level.
You could even play it as a character growth arc, with the start being false competence because he hasn't faced real opposition yet, followed by some deserved humility and eventually growing into true confidence. Maybe his trainers flattered him because of his family's position or wealth?

Shadow Lodge

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You remember how dumb luke skywalker was when in the first movie? How unreliable but willing ? yeah its something like that.

Sovereign Court

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Frankly the way I always try to explain to my player what is like to be a pc...you are superior to people around you and it becomes quite evident as time goes on.

Funny enough most people think of arthurian legends and the likes when they think of their characters, but the way people plays dnd, from my experience most PC are like this guy:

That's what it feels like being the PC!


You have better stats and better training than almost all of your peers. If you come from a small town, there are probably only a couple of grizzled veterans with the ability to defeat you in combat, and you have more native ability than even they do, just not as much experience.

Basically, you kick ass. Which is a good thing because your chosen career path is crazy dangerous, borderline suicidal.


Gaston is at least a level 2 ranger. Probably has a dip in rogue or bard.

OP:
Don't feel bad about asking questions. These games have enough rules in the books. They also have these unspoken, sorta cultural rules. We were all beginners once.

I would ask your GM for his or her expectations. Ezren, Paizo's iconic wizard, is an older wizard that leaves his families mercantile business for...adventuring and magic study.

Your level one character can have a lot life experience but it would probably be looked down upon if you showed up as a dragon slayer.


Thanks for all the input so far! I'm not entirely sure where I'll be taking it still, but this at least gives me a bit to think on...

Liberty's Edge

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My opinion: Essentially, a lvl 1 fighter (or samurai, or ranger) is a 20 year old marine/SWAT fresh out of school and trying to get his first actual job/deployment/post. Superb training (represented by a PC class), but green and wet behind the ears when it comes to real world experience.

Liberty's Edge

Samy wrote:
My opinion: Essentially, a lvl 1 fighter (or samurai, or ranger) is a 20 year old marine/SWAT fresh out of school and trying to get his first actual job/deployment/post. Superb training (represented by a PC class), but green and wet behind the ears when it comes to real world experience.

This is essentially how I've always dealt with it as well. A 1st level PC is promising (he's got all the cool PC class stuff and higher stats than average), but still definitely green and inexperienced (the average experienced NPC Farmer is level 2, remember).


If you want to put it concretely, assuming the same raw talent (i.e. same attributes), the difference between a level 1 Fighter and a Commoner is 6 HP, +1 to hit, +2 Fort, and 1 Feat, while the difference between a Fighter and a Warrior is 4 HP and 1 Feat.

Liberty's Edge

mplindustries wrote:

If you want to put it concretely, assuming the same raw talent (i.e. same attributes), the difference between a level 1 Fighter and a Commoner is 6 HP, +1 to hit, +2 Fort, and 1 Feat, while the difference between a Fighter and a Warrior is 4 HP and 1 Feat.

It's a bit bigger than that because NPC Class characters use 3 point-buy (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), while PCs use at least 10 point-buy, and far more likely 15 or 20.


At low levels your stats are the most important thing determining your power. This is especially true at 1st level. A 1st level commoner with 18 in all physical stats will be stronger than any 1st level martial character with 10 in all physical stats. Admittedly a commoner is not going to have all 18, and a 1st level PC class will have more than a 10 in all stats, but the point is still valid. Somewhere around 3rd or 4th level the class abilities start making the difference.


I think relative power according to level is ultimately determined by the context of the campaign, but a level 1 PC is nothing to sneeze at. Put another way: I knew of a guy who wanted to see how many tries it would take a party of 4 first-level commoners to kill a single wolf. He apparently went through at least 3 TPKs before he managed to beat the wolf.
Point is, compared to 9/10 of the level 1 NPCs in the city/town/wherever, your character is plenty strong and intimidating.


I don't know if it helps, but consider this...

The absolute fastest core race to achieve adult maturity is the half-orc, at 14 years. Even for them, it takes a further 1-12 years, depending on the class chosen, to achieve first level in that class. That's a lot of time to pick up "just the basics".

(And yet, those same people can multiclass and pick up the basics for another class in, what, a couple weeks in-game?)


thegreenteagamer wrote:

I don't know if it helps, but consider this...

The absolute fastest core race to achieve adult maturity is the half-orc, at 14 years. Even for them, it takes a further 1-12 years, depending on the class chosen, to achieve first level in that class. That's a lot of time to pick up "just the basics".

(And yet, those same people can multiclass and pick up the basics for another class in, what, a couple weeks in-game?)

Well it apparently gets a lot easier. Seen one adventure/combat/trap/conversation seen them all... duh (:P)

But more seriously, I think it would be fine for a first level character to have some confidence, whether its a false confidence or not. Much like thegreenteagamer said, have to have had some training, minimum of a year and likely fueling your over-inflated self-esteem or up to 60 years (elf) and perfectly justified. Failing that, you don't have to be a young person just getting started, you can have an older character with lots of life experience but little in the way of real combat experience. You coukd have a human 30-40 year-old small town guard who has only really dealt with drunks and the like before being recruited to war. Best thing might be to ask your GM's opinion, he will be running the game and effectively controlling your character's life after all.


Huh...I never really noticed the age by class chart before. That's...huh. I guess 1d6 years is quite a bit of training, even for someone who is "talented."

I didn't really consider this character's age all that much to be honest. I should probably figure that out too.

And I need to tie him in to a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign trait, so that'll help.

Thanks again for all the tips. It's kind of nice to see how more established players approach character creation. My first character was built, then a character was made around it. I've been trying to improve since then, so this is all a wonderful reference!


Djinnistorm wrote:
Then I found out the campaign is a lv 1 campaign (Curse of the Crimson Thrones, a classic I've been told). As far as I can tell, a lv 1 adventurer is a random dude who decided to pick up a sword for some reason or another, maaaybe has basic training so as not to stab himself in the foot, and possibly has more potential than the average joe. A highly skilled warrior in the making perhaps, but not yet. Is this just an example of a flawed character idea that I should scrap, or is there some way to make the ends meet?

Keep the idea, completely.

Start the character out as one relatively young. He was the best student of his instructor in the combat arts, dominating all the others. He was always a confident child, being strong, willful, athletic, and boisterous. His successes with the katana against his training partners only furthered his feelings of superiority and invincibility. His master, a kindly old man, never could find a way to temper this enthusiasm before sending him out on a journey of the world to, hopefully, learn some humility.

So, our callow youth has set his foot upon the path of adventure, supremely confident in his abilities and relishing the opportunity to make a name for himself in the wider world.


Djinnistorm wrote:

Huh...I never really noticed the age by class chart before. That's...huh. I guess 1d6 years is quite a bit of training, even for someone who is "talented."

I didn't really consider this character's age all that much to be honest. I should probably figure that out too.

And I need to tie him in to a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign trait, so that'll help.

Thanks again for all the tips. It's kind of nice to see how more established players approach character creation. My first character was built, then a character was made around it. I've been trying to improve since then, so this is all a wonderful reference!

You think that's something? Take a look at Ultimate Campaign. There's so many background charts there, you can roll a handful of dice and come out with a fully-fleshed character with an intricate backstory without ever using your imagination!

(I actually think that's a good thing. Some players want to play a character, not write a d@#$ novel, and it is great for STFU those GMs who demand a biography before you play first level.)


In our games 1st level characters are kids, 2nd lvl are teens and 3rd and above lvl are adults with 6th lvl being the top achievement for an average person.


This kinda reminds me of a GM that thought of Bruce Lee as a level 10+ monk, lol.

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