I think you got it right; that's the way I understand it works anyways. I don't think it's like the cloud spells or Strength where you can play it at any time but it does persist for all your combat checks this turn until you discard it for more effect.
I read it that you can play it outside of an encounter. The instruction is simply "Display this card." If it was intended to work that you could only play it when actually attempting a combat check it would have said "For your combat check, display this card..."
So, I'm playing it as I can play it anytime outside of an encounter, or when I'm actually attempting a combat check. Compare it to Rage. The first sentence of Rage is simply "Display this card and choose a character." Not much different from Sphere of Fire. See this thread and this post in particular that confirms Rage is played much the same way.
Also note that the check to recharge it comes at the end of YOUR turn, not the end of THE turn. So you could end your turn, and at the start of the next player's turn, display Sphere of Fire. If you encounter a monster before the end of your next turn, the card is ready for you. If not, you can attempt the check to recharge it.
In terms of "not being able to play another spell" - if you already had the sphere displayed from an earlier point in time, during your check, could you play Aid or some other kind of spell which doesn't define the type of check.
I would assume that you could, but thought I'd check.
Per usual, I defer to Hawkmoon :)
In terms of "not being able to play another spell" - if you already had the sphere displayed from an earlier point in time, during your check, could you play Aid or some other kind of spell which doesn't define the type of check.
I would assume that you could, but thought I'd check.
You can not display Sphere of Fire outside of an encounter, then use its power for a combat check and on the same combat check play another spell. This is because the FAQ adds the sentence "This counts as playing a spell" to the powers.
Per usual, I defer to Hawkmoon :)
Per usual, I support Mr. Jones in deffering to Mr. Hawk.
I hadn't thought too hard about Sphere of Fire being displayed, and therefore fair game to play outside of encounters. If that's the case, and the text certainly seems to support it, it's another feather in the cap of an already very useful spell!
There aren't THAT many advantages to displaying it outside the encounter (since it still counts as playing a spell when you trigger it), are there? All I'm coming up with are abilities like Ezren's and Radillo's, pre-errata. Oh, and that location in RotR that lets you draw when you play a spell. Anything I'm missing besides character powers and a location or two?
Well, it's a tiny feather, but I'm into any card that lets me move it out of my hand without discarding it. It's an edge case, but the spell is good enough to be kind of default better than Scorching Ray (or the S&S equivalent. Hydraulic Push? Geyser? I don't play casters often :D) so I'm willing to take this as a little perk on the backend of an already great spell.
You can't take it as damage. And there are lots of things in S&S that can damage you besides failing a check to defeat a monster.
If you've got a couple of Spheres of Destruction (this type of spell) and some support spells like Rage, you can limit your hand size, but still have those powers at your disposal.
Or, if you get a lot more technical, while it counts as playing a spell, it doesn't seem to count as playing the card. So anything that said "If you play a card with the Fire trait during this encounter, bury it" would be avoided.
I also just realized, there is potentially a technical loophole here. Does Sphere of Fire's powers mention anything about traits? (I don't have cards with me.) The update says it counts as playing a spell, but if the powers don't mention traits such as the Fire trait, then if you played it outside the encounter, you could technically activate it for the combat check against something immune to the Fire trait.
Conversely, you wouldn't get the Magic or Fire traits in situations where that was beneficial.
I'm sure that wasn't intentional. So perhaps something more akin to "This counts as playing a spell with the traits of this card." would better. Or, assuming the distinction in the third paragraph isn't part of the reason it is this way, "This counts as playing this card" would seem to work in a much shorter space.
Again, I don't have my cards, and all that assumes traits aren't mentioned in the powers of the card.
You can't take it as damage. And there are lots of things in S&S that can damage you besides failing a check to defeat a monster.
If you've got a couple of Spheres of Destruction (this type of spell) and some support spells like Rage, you can limit your hand size, but still have those powers at your disposal.
Or, if you get a lot more technical, while it counts as playing a spell, it doesn't seem to count as playing the card. So anything that said "If you play a card with the Fire trait during this encounter, bury it" would be avoided.
Ah, good points.
The damage one in particular should have been obvious to me, I've even considered it before. >.<
I also just realized, there is potentially a technical loophole here. Does Sphere of Fire's powers mention anything about traits? (I don't have cards with me.) The update says it counts as playing a spell, but if the powers don't mention traits such as the Fire trait, then if you played it outside the encounter, you could technically activate it for the combat check against something immune to the Fire trait.
Conversely, you wouldn't get the Magic or Fire traits in situations where that was beneficial.
I'm sure that wasn't intentional. So perhaps something more akin to "This counts as playing a spell with the traits of this card." would better. Or, assuming the distinction in the third paragraph isn't part of the reason it is this way, "This counts as playing this card" would seem to work in a much shorter space.
Again, I don't have my cards, and all that assumes traits aren't mentioned in the powers of the card.
This doesn't sound right to me, but I can't say with any certainty. This deep in the matter I no longer remember which rulings are relevant and just go off of what "feels" right.
Yeah. I don't think it is intentional. The rules say you add the traits of a card you play to determine the skill. But if you displayed Sphere of Fire earlier, it doesn't count as playing the card in the check. (Hence why it needed to have "This counts as playing a spell" added to it.) So, it wouldn't have the traits of the card on the check.
So probably not at all intentional, but a slight loophole. (And again, assuming the powers don't mention the triats. I don't have the card so I can't say for sure that any of what we are talking about really exists.)
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So, I just checked Sphere of Fire and the powers don't mention any traits. But I also just checked the rulebook.
Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card.
So, I guess the question is how far does "performing another action specified by that card" go? Does using your Arcane skill for your combat check via the powers on Sphere of Fire count as performing an action specified by the card? Or are the actions limited to doing things with the card like display, reveal, discard, etc?
If simply using your Arcane skill counts as an action specified by the card, then there is no need even for the "This counts as playing a spell." part of the card.
If using your Arcane skill doesn't count as an action specified by the card, then by playing it before the encounter you can essentially make a check without the traits of the card by not discarding it, even with the "This counts as playing a spell" text. In that case, simply saying "This counts playing this card" might be easier.
This is a great spell, my Alahazra fell to her knees and wept when she got one ;)
Didn't realise you could play it out of turn, but that makes it superb. There are many tasks etc that cause you to have to fight and if it's a combat check this will be very useful, allowing multiple attacks right through to the end of your turn. And if you need a bit of extra oomph discard for the extra damage.
Because it is the flaming sphere kinda thing, I was imagining that you cast it, then you are concentrating to redirect it to a new target, so it makes sense to me that a redirection counts as "using" the spell and no other spell cast with that check?
Chief Technical Officer
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Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card.So, I guess the question is how far does "performing another action specified by that card" go? Does using your Arcane skill for your combat check via the powers on Sphere of Fire count as performing an action specified by the card? Or are the actions limited to doing things with the card like display, reveal, discard, etc?
The phrase "performing another action specified by that card" was put there specifically to make triggering powers on displayed cards also count as playing them. The card is correct, but that phrase in the rulebook could use some extra explanation.
How does that faq relate to the cloud spells, or Rage, or Strength/Glibness/Speed (S/G/S)? Can I still get the dice from such a spell played earlier in the turn and still play a spell for the check? (I say still because I've done that all along). With the FAQ saying that activating a power on a card counts as playing it, it would seem that getting the extra dice fro a cloud spell or the bonus from S/G/S would count as playing that card and therefore count as my 1 spell for that step.
Perhaps the FAQ should say "Activating a power on a displayed card that determines your skill for a check also counts as playing it." Or perhaps those cards should say "If you played this card outside of an encounter, you can play another spell during the step when you activate this power." Or some other such thing.
I say all that because I really want to be able to drop a cloud prior to an encounter and still drop an attack spell during the encounter. Or have Seoni play Glibness at the start of her turn and still use her attack power.
(Also, I just realized I avoid the phrase "before the encounter" by habit now and use "prior to the encounter" or some other term so as not to confuse the old encounter sequence with what happens when you aren't encountering a card. In other words, PACG has changed the way I talk.)
How does that faq relate to the cloud spells, or Rage, or Strength/Glibness/Speed (S/G/S)? Can I still get the dice from such a spell played earlier in the turn and still play a spell for the check? (I say still because I've done that all along). With the FAQ saying that activating a power on a card counts as playing it, it would seem that getting the extra dice fro a cloud spell or the bonus from S/G/S would count as playing that card and therefore count as my 1 spell for that step.
Perhaps the FAQ should say "Activating a power on a displayed card that determines your skill for a check also counts as playing it." Or perhaps those cards should say "If you played this card outside of an encounter, you can play another spell during the step when you activate this power." Or some other such thing.
I say all that because I really want to be able to drop a cloud prior to an encounter and still drop an attack spell during the encounter. Or have Seoni play Glibness at the start of her turn and still use her attack power.
(Also, I just realized I avoid the phrase "before the encounter" by habit now and use "prior to the encounter" or some other term so as not to confuse the old encounter sequence with what happens when you aren't encountering a card. In other words, PACG has changed the way I talk.)
You don't activate any of those powers, they just happen. They're (EDIT: The clouds are) triggered abilities, not activated abilities. That's how I see it, at least. Certainly Strength and co don't get activated, as they're continuous.
I would add something like another recent FAQ, that powers that activate when something else happens don't count as once per step.
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I'm hoping there is that distinction too. I guess I'm really saying that "activate powers" isn't really defined. What would make Sphere of Fire's displayed power be considered "activating" while Incendiary Cloud's wouldn't be?
The one distinction I notice is that the clouds and s/g/s (at least their RotR versions) all say "Display this card. For the rest of your turn do X," while the Spheres "While displayed do X".
Display this card and select a character. For the rest of the turn, add 3 to that character's checks that use her Dexterity die. Discard this card at the end of the turn.
Display this card when a character encounters a bane. Any character who encounters a monster this turn adds 2d4 with the Fire trait to her combat check. Discard this card at the end of this turn.
Display this card. While displayed, for your combat check, you may use your Arcane or Divine skill + 1d6; you may additionally discard this card to add another 1d6.
Display this card and choose a character at your location. While displayed, that character may bury 1 card from her hand to add 1d10 to her Strength, Melee, or Constitution check.
So is that the distinction? You only activate the power on clouds and s/g/s when you actually play them, but their persistent effect is not activating a power, because the power added something back when you played it, even if you don't add it until it applies later.
Is that distinction because Sphere of Fire and Rage give you something that you may do, but leave the choice up to you to decide at that moment, while the others don't really have you making a choice after they are played?
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The distinction is in the choice. The first two you listed don't count as playing because they just happen when they're "triggered."* The second two do because they have to be "activated" by the player.
But bear in mind this is generic card game wisdom, which doesn't always apply to PACG, so I could be wrong.
EDIT: I totally didn't see your last paragraph about "may." Yes, I think that's the correct point.
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*Actually, I would argue that Speed is continuous, but it could be argued either way, and wouldn't make any difference here. If I'm right, only "activated" abilities count as playing them.
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Chief Technical Officer
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So is that the distinction? You only activate the power on clouds and s/g/s when you actually play them, but their persistent effect is not activating a power, because the power added something back when you played it, even if you don't add it until it applies later.
Right. "Activate" requires you to actively do a thing, not just passively benefit from a thing you actively did a while ago.
So is that the distinction? You only activate the power on clouds and s/g/s when you actually play them, but their persistent effect is not activating a power, because the power added something back when you played it, even if you don't add it until it applies later.Right. "Activate" requires you to actively do a thing, not just passively benefit from a thing you actively did a while ago.
Alright. Thanks. Glad to know the clouds are still awesome.
So, question I just thought of from a question over on BGG. Does using the power on Rage count as activating the Rage spell (and therefore as playing a spell)? It requires you to make a decision. If so, who does it count as having played the spell?
It feels like it shouldn't, but I'm not sure I can delineate why it shouldn't.
Hmm. I would say it counts as the enraged player activating/playing a spell.
Which is interesting as you're activating/playing another player's card.
I agree with Orbis here. Rage player activates the ability, so they're "playing" a "card" into the check. The only reason it's weird is that it sneaks itself into the normal encounter rules by way of indirection (it can be played in an encounter only if the ability is activated)
I agree with Orbis too. Unless you guys find a way in which this is A) important and/or B) breaks something, in which case I reserve the right to change my mind.
He's learned who he's dealing with lol
(Meant entirely lightheartedly)
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So, using this, a player could enrage Ezren so he could bury cards to draw cards, right? Someone have the exact wording so I can see if I CAN abuse this?
For, uh, thoroughness. Not because I enjoy thought exercises like this.
Display this card and choose a character at your location. While displayed, that character may bury 1 card from her hand to add 1d10 to her Strength, Melee, or Constitution check. At the end of your turn, if you do not have the Arcane skill, banish this card; otherwise, attempt an Arcane 8 check. If you succeed, recharge this card; if you fail, discard it.
Seems like Ezren could use his examine/draw power to me. He is burying a card to do so.
So every time Ezren attacks with the same, previously cast, Sphere of Destruction he gets to draw a card?
Given this, why would you bother with Rage, other than to get non-spells out of your deck?
My point was that someone else could play it on Ezren.
And yes, getting the non-spells out of your deck could be the idea.
Not that I think it's broken. It has to be during a check - that's what I wanted to know. Which makes it just an amusing combo.
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Actually, I think the bigger fear would be getting to draw off of Spheres. Can you do Radillo's combo using combat spells that don't cost you hand size?
*Thinks*
...No, but she's certainly way better with this.
Overall a good ruling, then, I think.
So, in this case, just to make sure (This may have already been mentioned and I just missed it): You would have to roll the 'Spell Resistance' check on certain monsters to activate an orb spell, but you still don't have to in order to benefit from speed, clouds or the like. (That's actually probably the biggest issue with the Rage ruling discussed above. It doesn't make sense thematically to have to roll SR when becoming enraged, but I'm not sure a rarely-seen flavor fail is worth making a change.)
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So, in this case, just to make sure (This may have already been mentioned and I just missed it): You would have to roll the 'Spell Resistance' check on certain monsters to activate an orb spell, but you still don't have to in order to benefit from speed, clouds or the like. (That's actually probably the biggest issue with the Rage ruling discussed above. It doesn't make sense thematically to have to roll SR when becoming enraged, but I'm not sure a rarely-seen flavor fail is worth making a change.)
No, think of it like this. They're all spells with a duration of 1 minute instead of one action.
Strength is giving you +3 to your strength mod for the duration.
Sphere spells are letting you spend your action to make an attack roll (and corresponding damage roll on a hit) for the duration.
Rage is giving you the ability to spend your reaction to gain advantage on a strength check, at the cost of a level of exhaustion, for the duration.
You're "playing the spell" when you have to actually do something. Strength requires no action beyond the initial play. But the others do require one, and it is this requirement that means you're playing a spell.