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Is Alchemical Allocation available to be made into a potion or to be bought in potion form in PFS play?
Here's the reason:
Crafting AA costs 150 for an alchemist, right? (and can't be done in PFS play)
So it might take two turns to drink a potion, but you can save LOADS of gold by drinking the AA first (at 150 or 300 gp) and then drinking your 3rd level potions (at 750 to 1050 gp a pop). Even 2nd level potions would benefit if found (saving you the cost of making them yourself, or allowing you other potions you can't make as an alchemist).
A handy haversack makes it easier to recover potions you need (move action from haversack, no AoO), and drinking them is standard action (provoking AoO unless you have a feat)... so one AA, then one potion the next turn seems viable.
Also regarding this and an extract: could you put two AA on the same extract/potion if you have the Combine Extract discovery - combined with two fisted drinker, can you then spit them both (two potions) into their own (or ONE?) bottle. This gets more RAI than RAW since there isn't really anything covering this situation, really. RAW might be determined that "one potion" is the first one spat out - but technically with TFD you are drinking them both at the same time and spitting them both out at the same time... so you would need two AA effects to do so... so... well, anyway. Thoughts?
Alchemical Allocation can't be in potion format because it's a personal range spell.
Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
If you ever get one in a chronicle sheet, then it's available to you. I doubt such a sheet exists though.
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Where in the world did you pull the "personal range" thing from?
"It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects."
page 477 of the CR... if it affects one target, doesn't "you personally" qualify? 5th edition of the rule book doesn't say what the old 3.5 used to say... on the line you quoted.
Example: Potion of True Strike = exist don't they? Overland flight? Plant Shape? Read Magic? See Invisible? Alter Self? Blink?
None of those have ever been in potion form? Seems like I have seen at least SOME of them as potions before...
Where in the world did you pull the "personal range" thing from?
"It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects."
page 477 of the CR... if it affects one target, doesn't "you personally" qualify?
Example: Potion of True Strike = exist don't they? Overland flight? Plant Shape? Read Magic? See Invisible? Alter Self? Blink?
None of those have ever been in potion form? Seems like I have seen at least SOME of them as potions before...
If the spell's range is "Personal" then it should not be a potion. Yes, this means no potion of True Strike, among other things.
This is to prevent silliness with a lot of spells - like true strike - or buffs off the paladin and ranger and other 1/3 caster lists.
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If the spell's range is "Personal" then it should not be a potion. Yes, this means no potion of True Strike, among other things.
This is to prevent silliness with a lot of spells - like true strike - or buffs off the paladin and ranger and other 1/3 caster lists.
Again: 5th edition of the rule book does NOT have this exception in the potion section (like the old 3.5 used to have):
imbibed. Potions vary incredibly in appearance. Magic oils are
similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather
than imbibed. A potion or oil can be used only once. It can
duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting
time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or
objects. The price of a potion is equal to the level of the spell
× the creator’s caster level × 50 gp. If the potion has a material
component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create.
Table 15–12 gives sample prices for potions created at the lowest
possible caster level for each spellcasting class. Note that some
spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level
of such spells depends on the caster brewing the potion.
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character
taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the
effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done
so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and
the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster
level, the drinker still controls the effect).
The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the
object is the target.
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Where in the world did you pull the "personal range" thing from?
"It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects."
page 477 of the CR... if it affects one target, doesn't "you personally" qualify? 5th edition of the rule book doesn't say what the old 3.5 used to say... on the line you quoted.
Example: Potion of True Strike = exist don't they? Overland flight? Plant Shape? Read Magic? See Invisible? Alter Self? Blink?
None of those have ever been in potion form? Seems like I have seen at least SOME of them as potions before...
PRD. Magic Item Creation. Creating Potions.
The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.
All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target.
The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing a potion requires 1 day.
Item Creation Feat Required: Brew Potion.
Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (alchemy)
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PRD. Magic Item Creation. Creating Potions.
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target.
TYVM. Also straightened out the whole "cost" thing. All potions cost full cost even if crafted. Good to know. (unless there is a feat which reduces the cost somewhere).
TYVM. Also straightened out the whole "cost" thing. All potions cost full cost even if crafted. Good to know. (unless there is a feat which reduces the cost somewhere).
PRD. Magic Item Creation. Creating Potions.
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target.
No, crafting costs is still half the base price.
Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp. For many items, the market price equals the base price. Armor, shields, weapons, and items with value independent of their magically enhanced properties add their item cost to the market price. The item cost does not influence the base price (which determines the cost of magic supplies), but it does increase the final market price.
Not that crafting costs matter in PFS as there's no magic item crafting available for any players.
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ps. this also brings into question the classic "invisibility potion." As it would not (per RAW) work on someone drinking it (it couldn't be made into this kind of potion per RAW, only into a potion that let you touch something and make THAT invisible). Greater Invisibility has no Range descriptor, but "works like invisibility" - so it would be out for potions too?
ps. from that same section you quoted: "The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion." - but, yeh, the formula works out to being half cost of what is on the chart. 25*3*5 = 375 for a 3rd level wiz, etc... potion. kk.
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Um, no. For potions, the drinker becomes the target of the spell automatically.
Yes, but the creature is not an "object" unless they are dead. Therefore the RANGE would be "personal" which doesn't allow a potion to be made to affect you in the first place....
mostly it comes to parsing the phrase of the spell:
"the creature or object touched... etc..." OK. So does this mean "the creature that casts the spell, OR the object touched" becomes invisible. Or does it mean the object touched OR creature touched becomes invisible?
Because the RANGE makes it seem like it is either a PERSONAL spell or a spell that affects one OBJECT. Not a spell that affects a CREATURE TOUCHED (as an object). (ps. yes, I know how it has historically been used both ways... I am arguing semantics of the spell descriptor at this point).
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The fact that the 'range' of the touch spell Invisibility will be the caster (or drinker) does not turn the spell into a 'range: Personal' spell.
It's a different category.
There are spells with the category of 'range: Personal'. Those spells can't be made into potions.
Any other spell that is made into a potion will only apply its effects to the drinker. That doesn't turn them into 'range: Personal' spells.
Invisibility: Range personal or touch
Target you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./levelpage 301
Is the OR in there applied to both RANGE categories or is it a separator for the target section? If so, no, you cannot create a POTION with a RANGE PERSONAL, affecting YOU. PER RAW.
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Correct.
You make an invisibility potion with the 'range: Touch' spell. And then, because potions affect the caster, that 'touch' is applied to you the drinker.
Except the caster is not an object (dead) and the spell thus fizzles when it can't see a valid target (object weighing less than 100 pounds per level)...
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The caster is a creature.Except the caster is not an object (dead) and the spell thus fizzles....Correct.
You make an invisibility potion with the 'range: Touch' spell. And then, because potions affect the caster, that 'touch' is applied to you the drinker.
Correct. And the only invisibility potion that can be made is one that affects OBJECTS, not creatures. All depends on where you parse that "or".... but I concede, invisibility potions exist in game, ergo, someone see's the variant (original, and how you understand it) parsing.
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Depends if you think that weight limit applies to both creatures and objects or just to objects. The grammar is not specific, heck it could even be applied to the first 'you'.
I would rule that it applies only to objects.
Like I said, it all depends on where you parse those "or"s... lol. We agree, btw... common sense rules and all. :) (I was just playing devil's advocate cause I am bored today, lol)
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Actually, while this thread is still fresh, I'll ask a similar question:
Can you make a potion of Fire Breath?
The "Range 15 ft." is tripping me up, for some reason.
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So looks like no, that's an elixir created with craft wondrous items, not brew potion. Potions can only be made from spells with specific targets, area of effect spells like fire breath, color spray, and fireball wouldn't work.
Okay, cool. Thanks.
Darn. Even that's single target. I was looking for a cheaper way to handle swarms, but something more effective than just Alchemist Fire.
So looks like no, that's an elixir created with craft wondrous items, not brew potion. Potions can only be made from spells with specific targets, area of effect spells like fire breath, color spray, and fireball wouldn't work.
Okay, cool. Thanks.
Darn. Even that's single target. I was looking for a cheaper way to handle swarms, but something more effective than just Alchemist Fire.
Well elixir of dragon breath would work and only costs tad bit more than the elixir of fire breath.
Plenty of other useful stuff in there for future lower level characters wanting to deal with swarms too.