I currently have a level 3 Elven Cleric of Erastil in PFSP
Feats: Precise shot, point blank shot
Domains: Animal (feather), Good
traits: reactionary, dangerously curious
stats are as follows:
str 14
dex 17
con 10
int 11
wis 15
cha 10
I run around in hide armor with a mw longsword + large wooden shield and my MW comp Longbow with 2 str rating. I'm getting bored with my first pathfinder character and would like to take her 'deeper into the woods' as a hunter/provider. This is my first character.
I like the Hunters Archetype Divine Hunter and want to take Animal Domain a second time for the bonus to stats for the Animal Companion.
Should I stay Cleric till level 5 to get fly as a spell? Will my cleric levels stack with the effective cleric levels of Divine Hunter to get early access to the stat boost? I see Inquisitors and Clerics can overlap domains so i thought it was possible. Or this could be a terrible idea and perhaps the Plant domain would be better, perhaps with the growth subtype.
I'll be taking a cat for Animal companion until I finish a 3part scenario that gives an Axe beak.
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Laurela --
I could see starting your multiclass with the divine hunter to get your animal companion at level 1 rather than at level 4. However, I don't know if I would do more than that single dip of divine hunter 1/cleric X. I feel that I should point out that Axebeak is already an animal companion option for animal domain clerics and hunters.
The boon that comes off the three part PFS scenario mostly benefits those classes with limited animal companion choices: oracles, paladins, cavaliers, rangers etc.
Your new character could start with an axebeak companion without the boon.
Hmm
Hmm -
I thought Hunters started with only druid animal choices (I've only used the core rulebook for Animal Companions). If you know of the source showing axe beak as a starter could you tell me?
I just reread the Clerics animal domain Animal companion entry and it doesn't say if you use the ranger or druid animal list to pick from.
Dafydd -
I was worried I wouldn't be able to pick Animal as a domain twice, but you think that is possible? my friends tried in hero lab but said he could not select the domain.
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Hmm -
I thought Hunters started with only druid animal choices (I've only used the core rulebook for Animal Companions). If you know of the source showing axe beak as a starter could you tell me?
I just reread the Clerics animal domain Animal companion entry and it doesn't say if you use the ranger or druid animal list to pick from.
Axe Beak is listed on page 311 of Bestiary 3. It is a druid animal companion choice, further confirmed by the Additional Resources page.
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine;
Clerics with the animal domain pick from the full druid list, as do hunters. How do you know this? Because you may choose your companion as if your druid level were -3 of your current class. It did not state any further limitations.
In other words, you can get your Axe Beak next level (because you're third, right?) without the boon from that certain 3-part scenario so long as you own Bestiary 3.
You may want to save going through that scenario for a character whose animal choices are a bit more limited.
Hmm
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Back to your question about multi-classing. I don't think it is worth taking 4 levels of hunter just to get that boost to the ability score of your animal companion (and this is speaking as someone who loves animal companions.)
I *could* have seen a single level dip at the beginning to get early access to your animal companion. (In fact, I am considering that for PFS.) But as you've got one level to go, I would just collect your axebeak on level 4 and have fun with it.
Hmm
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@OP Don't do it! Stay a single-classed archer cleric. Multiclassing a full caster may seem like a good idea at the time, but you will usually regret it. Have you managed to avoid being shunted into a healbot role? Have you learned the entire spell list? Have you learned to leave open spell slots so you have 15 minute access to the entire spell list? At level 3 Summon Monster starts to work - have you done that yet?
Animal companions are great. Like Hmm said, you already have access to all animals on the druid list, including my personal favorite, the axe beak. When a cleric gets an Animal Companion at 4th level it will be a feeble Level 1 companion. At 5th level you can take the Boon Companion feat, which will make it a stolid Level 5 companion.
@OP Don't do it! Stay a single-classed archer cleric. Multiclassing a full caster may seem like a good idea at the time, but you will usually regret it. Have you managed to avoid being shunted into a healbot role? Have you learned the entire spell list? Have you learned to leave open spell slots so you have 15 minute access to the entire spell list? At level 3 Summon Monster starts to work - have you done that yet?
Animal companions are great. Like Hmm said, you already have access to all animals on the druid list, including my personal favorite, the axe beak. When a cleric gets an Animal Companion at 4th level it will be a feeble Level 1 companion. At 5th level you can take the Boon Companion feat, which will make it a stolid Level 5 companion.
In the group we play with there has only ever been one other cleric, I always open up with I'm a battle cleric not a bandaid. Thus far it has helped them not rely on me solely. I do leave spell slots open! =D
I actually have to reach level 4 before the next session but I have not decided what route to take yet so took to the forums. I do plan on Boon companion at level 5 but I'm still kinda a newb with character creation and pathfinder in general.
I really hate how I only have 2 skill points per level so i was hoping even a 3 level hunter dip would give me some more versatility. For being a cleric of Erastil I don't really know how to do much in the sense of hunting. I'm desperate for more perception, acrobatics etc.. I rarely get to buff before encounters so summons and ranged attacks are what i mainly do.
I own the core rulebook, advanced player/race/class guides, Animal archive. Am purchasing the bestiary 3 for the Axe beak tonight. Most of the time I don't know what to do. What is the entire spell list?
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Skills matter less and less as the group levels up. Invisibility trumps stealth. Fly trumps acrobatics. Perception remains the most used skill in the game. Clerics must learn to live with lousy skills. It's the price of power.
Sometime's it's tough to figure out what to do. One trick that helps me is to have 3 or 4 'standard' things to do, then improvise. E.g.
1. Shoot arrows at it
2. Cast a spell to buff or heal someone, possibly self
3. Cast a spell to zap a foe. My favorite is Command a foe to 'approach', when approaching will draw AoOs from my entire party.
4. Summon something
5. Ready an appropriate action with an appropriate trigger
6. Some clever or creative trick
Your 'entire spell list' is all the cleric spells in all the Pathfinder books you own.
I will also stand behind the "do not multiclass" opinion. There is little the hunter gives you that you do not already have/get. Only thing I do see it giving you is Gravity Bow and aspect of the falcon. Gravity bow can be obtained with a level 1 dip in sorcerer, and the aspect of the falcon you can get via a magic item. Taking the sylvan wildblood option even lets you continue your animal companion.
I would suggest, if you do take the multiclass option, retrain the precise shot feat into Boon Companion at 5th level (when you get precise companion). This means you have a level 1 companion for level 4, but then it will be level 5 at level 5.
So from Hunter or Sorcerer a 1 level dip will net me Gravity bow spell which as I read looks really nice. I would have to take crossblooded sorcerer with wildblooded celestial and sylvan to have the wisdom score to cast gravity bow right?
What is retraining? Sorry but I don't understand any of what you stated there.
Agreed. Stay as a full cleric, and grab the Boon Companion feat at level 5.
And retraining is a PFS legal rules system that can be found in the hardcover "Ultimate Campaign" book.
Agreed. Stay as a full cleric, and grab the Boon Companion feat at level 5.
And retraining is a PFS legal rules system that can be found in the hardcover "Ultimate Campaign" book.
That means I'd have to purchase the book to be able to retrain correct?
Why does no one think multiclassing is good? The druid/ranger spells you access look very useful, plus the giant celestial chocobo of death -WARK.
Would 3 levels hurt that badly? I don't want to shoot myself in the foot or anything but its overwhelmingly looking like I'm alone on this.
Skills matter less and less as the group levels up. Invisibility trumps stealth. Fly trumps acrobatics. Perception remains the most used skill in the game. Clerics must learn to live with lousy skills. It's the price of power.
Sometime's it's tough to figure out what to do. One trick that helps me is to have 3 or 4 'standard' things to do, then improvise. E.g.
1. Shoot arrows at it
2. Cast a spell to buff or heal someone, possibly self
3. Cast a spell to zap a foe. My favorite is Command a foe to 'approach', when approaching will draw AoOs from my entire party.
4. Summon something
5. Ready an appropriate action with an appropriate trigger
6. Some clever or creative trickYour 'entire spell list' is all the cleric spells in all the Pathfinder books you own.
I accidentally deleted my reply earlier, *sigh*. I rarely cast spells at my foes because I worry my wis is too low they will make the save. That being said I should put all ability score increases into wisdom? pretty sure my other stats are okay for what I'm doing.
I drop or put away my bow when baddies get too close and draw my wooden shield to survive. Other than a 5 foot step and shooting is there a better way?
Maybe replacing my hide armor with mithril shirt? I don't make many skill checks that have the penalties from armor. I've got a pile of gold and prestige points.
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Spell DC doesn't matter for most cleric spells. For example, summoning spells are great, and there's no DC. As an Archer Cleric you probably want just enough wisdom to cast your highest level spell. It's true that, as an archer, you will likely shoot a lot of arrows. As long as your archery is effective at winning the day, probably do that.
Certain cleric spells are so useful that they empower the entire group. Examples: Heal at 6th level; Wall of Stone at 5th level; Blessing of Fervor & Freedom of Movement at 4th level; Summon Monster III & Magic Circle against ... & Communal Resist Energy at 3rd level. If you multiclass you delay access for an entire level. That winds up mattering a lot more than a little extra damage from Gravity Bow.
If your party tangles with a Blue Dragon you will find that the extra damage from Gravity Bow is trivial compared to casting Communal Resist Energy (Electricity) on your entire group. Nothing stops a mind control threat like Magic Circle Against Evil. Nothing neutralizes constructs like a Lantern Archon from Summon Monster III, possibly combined with a pit spell. Ad nauseum.
As to what else to do? That's hard to say. As an archer, each round you must choose between either casting a spell or attacking with archery. How many feats have you invested in archery? What are your attributes? My cleric of Erastil doesn't even carry a bow ...
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I have a multiclassed Ranger/Cleric. Getting all martial weapons, bonus feat, more class skills, lots of skill points, and access to the ranger spell list as wands has be well worth it for me.
All you have to do is buy scrolls of the beneficial spells that you can't cast yet, and you can buff your party just fine. Since you don't have to worry about a saving throw, you don't care what the casting stat is.
(Actually, my cleric uses scrolls for most spells that don't have a high level-dependent benefit. If it's just 2 more rounds or 2 minutes, she'll save her spell slots for Shield of Faith or Magic Vestment.)
All you need is a Cha of 11 or higher to be able to cast Gravity Bow via Sorcerer.
If you went with the Hunter dip, you would get the Precise Companion class ability. This would give you the bonus feat of Precise Shot or Outflank. As you avoid melee yourself, and the companion would only get the outflank bonus if other people in the party take teamwork feats, precise shot is more beneficial.
Since you picked up precise shot already, you would retrain the feat to something more useful to you, rapid shot comes to mind. It does require Ultimate Campaign, and a gold expenditure, but is worth it (imho) for your character, if you the multiclass into hunter.
Another option to look at, Deific Obedience. It gives you (for Erastil) a +4 to survival skill. At least as long as you perform the obedience to Erastil, which is plant some seeds or leave a quiver of arrows marked with the symbol of Erastil somewhere. Rather easy to do. It is in Inner Sea Gods, and is great for any Divine character.
Lastly, if Skill Points are what you are looking for, Inquisitor might be a better choice. It's domain says it stacks, it gets 6+int skill points, and Judgement, stern gaze and monster lore. All handy abilities.
Ah I got'cha, but alas only have a charisma of 10 have I. just looking at gravity bow, wouldn't hunter be better since its a ranger level 1 spell and i wouldn't have to worry about arcane spell failure?
I do own Inner sea gods and will look into the Ultimate campaign & Inquisitor. Its getting late and i have a lot of reading for the weekend.
Make sure gravity bow is even worth the trouble. It can turn your 1d8 to 2d6, which is average 4.5 to average 7, for one minute. So you will have to cast at the start of a fight. Basically you lose an attack at the start of combat to do 2.5 more damage on following attacks. Not a bad choice, but also not worth going out of your way to pick up.
I normally play with: A summoner, 2 paladins, martial artist, barbarians. I seem to do the least damage, mostly due to DR (my D8 hates me) which is why i thought gravity bow would help.
I do enjoy summoning, the celestial eagles lay a smack down on anything evil. I've never bought scrolls, just a wand of cure light wounds. Actually I've only bought the mw longsword and mw longbow, and am sitting on 5000 gold and 14 prestige.
I can buy scrolls of any spell on my spell list even if its higher level than i can cast? I know i can use wands so it makes sense.
Spell DC doesn't matter for most cleric spells. For example, summoning spells are great, and there's no DC. As an Archer Cleric you probably want just enough wisdom to cast your highest level spell. It's true that, as an archer, you will likely shoot a lot of arrows. As long as your archery is effective at winning the day, probably do that.
Certain cleric spells are so useful that they empower the entire group. Examples: Heal at 6th level; Wall of Stone at 5th level; Blessing of Fervor & Freedom of Movement at 4th level; Summon Monster III & Magic Circle against ... & Communal Resist Energy at 3rd level. If you multiclass you delay access for an entire level. That winds up mattering a lot more than a little extra damage from Gravity Bow.
If your party tangles with a Blue Dragon you will find that the extra damage from Gravity Bow is trivial compared to casting Communal Resist Energy (Electricity) on your entire group. Nothing stops a mind control threat like Magic Circle Against Evil. Nothing neutralizes constructs like a Lantern Archon from Summon Monster III, possibly combined with a pit spell. Ad nauseum.
As to what else to do? That's hard to say. As an archer, each round you must choose between either casting a spell or attacking with archery. How many feats have you invested in archery? What are your attributes? My cleric of Erastil doesn't even carry a bow ...
You make a very good case, looking at the level 6 spells there are some I'd miss. Animal companions getting share spells will be fun.
str 14 dex 17 con 10 int 11 wis 15 cha 10
I could put 1 point into wisdom to get a flat bonus 3 spells.
1 point into int and the last into dex.
Lastly and most importantly, how does your cleric not carry a bow??
Clerics can fill a lot of different bows, and sometimes people make decisions about their equipment based on what role they're seeking to fill. Some clerics focus on channelling or spells, others with melee, and others still on archery, like yourself.
As for why multiclassing is discouraged, it is very discouraged for casters because it delays your critical abilities, spell-casting, by another level.
If you're a Wizard 1/Alchemist 1, you're a level 2 character that, when you cast a spell such as Burning Hands, have a caster level of 1, which means you deal 1d4 damage instead of 2d4 you would have had if you were a second level wizard.
It gets to be very crippling very quickly.
All you need is a Cha of 11 or higher to be able to cast Gravity Bow via Sorcerer.
If you went with the Hunter dip, you would get the Precise Companion class ability. This would give you the bonus feat of Precise Shot or Outflank. As you avoid melee yourself, and the companion would only get the outflank bonus if other people in the party take teamwork feats, precise shot is more beneficial.
Since you picked up precise shot already, you would retrain the feat to something more useful to you, rapid shot comes to mind. It does require Ultimate Campaign, and a gold expenditure, but is worth it (imho) for your character, if you the multiclass into hunter.
Another option to look at, Deific Obedience. It gives you (for Erastil) a +4 to survival skill. At least as long as you perform the obedience to Erastil, which is plant some seeds or leave a quiver of arrows marked with the symbol of Erastil somewhere. Rather easy to do. It is in Inner Sea Gods, and is great for any Divine character.
Lastly, if Skill Points are what you are looking for, Inquisitor might be a better choice. It's domain says it stacks, it gets 6+int skill points, and Judgement, stern gaze and monster lore. All handy abilities.
I read up on the Feat Deific Obedience and the Evangelist prestige class looks like a really good option! 5 skill points, plus add two skills to my class skill list (hello perception!) and since I worship erastil I'll get the 2nd boon at level 11 to duplicate my animal companion and still have access to level 6 spells.
I'll have to push boon companion back to level 7 due to taking Deific Obedience at level 5 to qualify for the prestige class but I think i can manage.
Does this look as snazzy as I think it does?
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It looks every bit as snazzy as you think it does. Yes, you miss a spell casting level but you get skill points and boons.
My Shelyn-worshipping sorceress is totally going to become an evangelist. More hit points, more skill points and some cool RP flavor.
I will miss having extra spells as an FCB, though...
Hmm
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I have a PFS character almost identical to the OP.. the differences being 1/2 elf instead of elf and the fur domain instead of feather.
I was initially going to multiclass with ranger, but have since retrained back to singleclass cleric, and am happier for the change.
I found that multiclassing didn't significantly improve the archery... it only detracted from progression of cleric abilities. I'll echo the sentiment that high wis isn't necessary if you focus on buffs and summons for spells.
It looks every bit as snazzy as you think it does. Yes, you miss a spell casting level but you get skill points and boons.
My Shelyn-worshipping sorceress is totally going to become an evangelist. More hit points, more skill points and some cool RP flavor.
I will miss having extra spells as an FCB, though...
Hmm
One thing that troubles me is that currently (at level4) and until my first level of Evangelist at character level 6 I will not have access to Handle Animal.
skilled:
Evangelists possess a range of skills across multiple disciplines. At 1st level, an evangelist selects two skills to add to her class skill list. Once selected, these class skills can't be changed.
Should I take Handle Animal? I know I don't need it but would I be better off in the long run?
Also a 3 Int gives the AC the ability to understand a language? I was thinking comprehend languages via share spells to help with communication and tactics.
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PFS allows for something of a "cheat" with regards to the necessity of Handle Animal.
Your animal companion, when acquired, is ruled to come with a full allotment of tricks already learned without having to roll to train them. You only have to roll to train successive tricks, which could certainly be a pain in the patookus, granted. Just make sure you get the mandatory ones up front for free: 2 instances of attack, and Down.
The Link ability inherent to ACs more than makes up for the lack of Handle Animal as a class skill. If a PFS GM even makes you roll to handle your AC (a rare occurance in my experience) your DC is only 10. Don't dump CHA and you're auto succeed by the time you have 5 skill ranks (or even less, depending on CHA bonus)
As for giving the AC intelligence, that's a double edged sword. It's another trick it can learn (and you have to succeed at teaching) but 3 intelligence doesn't grant it sapience. It's still an animal. Table variation may come into play, but just because an AC has 3 intelligence it still isn't as smart as a humanoid and as such GMs may not allow it to behave like one. Personally, I'd put the stat boosts into something combat affecting.
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Do you need Handle Animal skill?
Yes, you do. You don't have to have it as a class skill, but you need it. I've run into a number of PFS gms who make me roll handle animal on everything. You only need a DC 10 check for a trick that your animal already knows, but if your animal dies and you have to retrain it you can do as many training rolls per scenario as you have ranks in Handle Animal.
I have an Int 4 tiger and haven't regretted it. Having the animal have a higher int means three more tricks for every point of int. The animal is more under your control than under the GMs, and it can learn any feat that it qualifies for -- not just the animal ones.
High intelligence is so worth it.
Hmm
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PFS allows for something of a "cheat" with regards to the necessity of Handle Animal.
I notice I left an important part of that sentence off.
You don't need Handle Animal as a class skill. As Hmm mentioned, you'll definitely still need a few ranks; you'll want whatever it takes on top of your +4 bonus to make a DC 10 an autosuccess.
Ahhh okay I understand the Handle Animal skill better now. Last weeks scenario the GM made me roll for everything and It was raining 1s and 4s on getting my Cat to do anything heh. This week different GM that didn't require the roll as long as you didn't try to get the AC to do anything ridiculous.
for class skills i was thinking stealth and survival, going for a scout/ hunter and possibly retraining dangerously curious as of yet it has been useless.
Deadeye Bowman (Erastil): When you are using a
longbow, if only a single creature is providing soft cover to
your target, your target does not receive the +4 bonus to AC.
It irks me to have the ability to act first in a surprise round but we never have a scout/rogue and just blunder around running into things.
Its been a while since i had a question but i just hit level 5 with my cleric and am retraining a few things for this weekend:
the trait dangerously curious and am looking for ideas, possibly magical lineage: metamagic extend fly spell. From my understanding that will work on wands of fly, and i don't need UMD since i now get fly as a domain spell.
I'm retraining my favored class bonus from +1/2 domain powers per level to skill points. For my 5th level feat i'm taking deific obedience to get into the evangalist prestige class.
Sadly my tiger is still only level 2 and i haven't trained any tricks.
Do you think taking handle animal as a class skill would be better than putting a lot of points into the skill? I will have 5 points after retraining but it still doesn't seem like much.
okay i didn't know about wands, potions etc. thank you =) i'm trying to get the most out of fly that i can since all the guides say archers pew pewing death from above is the way to go.
I haven't looked up what i can retrain, i'm going to ask our venture captain for help when i show up early.
I am inexperienced with the game, i have made a 2nd character and am working on a 3rd to get a kitsune played.
I would stay cleric and spend the feat on archery or boon companion. I undestand that evangalist offers good stuff but a caster progression level is expensive. And what he^ said.
This is a minor aside regarding gravity bow:
Gravity bow does not just add 2.5 average damage to subsequent shots, it also makes it more likely to roll average damage since 2d6 results occur on a bell curve instead of the linear chances you get with a d8.
But compared to buffs like divine favor is is not worth looking at, IMOP.
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But compared to buffs like divine favor is is not worth looking at, IMOP.This is a minor aside regarding gravity bow:
Gravity bow does not just add 2.5 average damage to subsequent shots, it also makes it more likely to roll average damage since 2d6 results occur on a bell curve instead of the linear chances you get with a d8.
That is a fair opinion.
I feel that since Laurela had said she had rotten luck with her d8, that gravity bow may prove more useful for her. Assuming her d8's are not flawed somehow (which is a possibility), then at the very least this would give her a much smaller chance of rolling poorly. The benefits for her may be much more than just a 2.5 gain.
Ultimately, Gravity Bow is a buff to be done right before combat rather than during combat.
I have a question regarding summoning monsters, If my alignment is NG and my deity is LG then I can only summon Lantern Archons and there more improved brethren and no Azatas
due to there alignment subtypes being opposed to my LG patron? What alignment is opposed to NG? I know I can't summon anything with the evil subtype or evil spell descriptor.
I'm looking at sacred summons as a possibility after boon companion.
I would too suggest you stick with Cleric. They are true power houses as they level up.
Find a couple of good Hours/level spells, like Greater Magic Weapon (3rd). Then there are the other amazing spells such as Divine Favour which will pump your damage. Eventually, you'll be a true powerhouse of which rangers and fighters will be jealous.
Have a look at what people build with animal companions, they can also be fun.
I have a question regarding summoning monsters, If my alignment is NG and my deity is LG then I can only summon Lantern Archons and there more improved brethren and no Azatas
due to there alignment subtypes being opposed to my LG patron? What alignment is opposed to NG? I know I can't summon anything with the evil subtype or evil spell descriptor.I'm looking at sacred summons as a possibility after boon companion.
You can summon azata's. Lawful can't summon chaos. Evil can't summon good. But LG can summon NG, NG, NN; and NG can summon everything not evil.
You can summon azata's. Lawful can't summon chaos. Evil can't summon good. But LG can summon NG, NG, NN; and NG can summon everything not evil.I have a question regarding summoning monsters, If my alignment is NG and my deity is LG then I can only summon Lantern Archons and there more improved brethren and no Azatas
due to there alignment subtypes being opposed to my LG patron? What alignment is opposed to NG? I know I can't summon anything with the evil subtype or evil spell descriptor.I'm looking at sacred summons as a possibility after boon companion.
In the CRB it says clerics can't cast spells opposed to his/her alignment which is NG and his/her deities which is LG. Azatas have a CG subtype so the spell is CG and then I could not cast it.
Not a huge loss I guess, everywhere I've looked people seem to be of the opinion that archons are pretty good disco balls to have on the battlefield.
Evangelist only loses 1 level of spellcasting, I'll get to duplicate my animal companion and get a couple more class skills and skill points. Lots of archer fun to be had.