Since pummeling style resolves as one attack, can you cast true strike the round before and apply the bonus to all of the attacks in pummeling style round 2? I assume not, but I figured I would ask.
Yes. You only make one attack roll.
Though what I'd really like to know is if, since you aren't making multiple attacks, does all the damage rolls count as part of 'the first attack' for rules that reference such things? My gut feeling is 'yes they do', but if someone has rules text that they think point to a different conclusion I'd love for them to show me.
Actually, pummeling style is multiple attack rolls.
As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit. You can only use Pummeling Style with unarmed strikes (see errata at right).
And true strike affects a single attack roll, which is why I assumed it wouldn't work.
Embarassing. I forgot how that feat worked. /facepalm
But yes.
... Your next single attack roll...
Still, my question stands. If something says it works on your 'first attack' in a round, is there anything that suggest that you only consider the damage of the first roll 'the first attack', when Pummeling style says all of the rolls become one attack?
I would think that the entire thing counts as a single attack (that requires multiple rolls) for other purposes.
Also, I had intended to post this in the rules forum, not advice. Whoops.
You are trying to make pummeling style do more than it already does.The feat lets you avoid multiple DR and it vastly increases your crit chance, by multiplying damage of all your hits if one of those confirms as a crit.
It does not, nor does it need to, make every spell affecting one attack now affect all your attacks. Nor do all your missed attacks become hits (and crits) if one attack crits.
To me the one "one attack" phrasing has people reading too much into the feat. It does open up loads of questions (how does it interact with mirror images?), which I prefer to ignore and just go with the two (already pretty good) mechanical workings explained in the text of the feat.
How would Pummeling Strike interact with the Kensai's Perfect Strike?
At 4th level, when a kensai hits with his chosen weapon, he can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to maximize his weapon damage. Don’t roll for damage—the weapon deals maximum damage. This affects only the weapon’s base damage dice, not additional damage from sneak attack, magical weapon properties, spellstrike, or critical hits. If the kensai confirms a critical hit, he can instead spend 2 points from his arcane pool to increase his weapon’s critical multiplier by 1.
This ability replaces spell recall.
How would Pummeling Strike interact with the Kensai's Perfect Strike?
** spoiler omitted **
It is irrelevant because a kensai's chosen weapon is the martial/exotic weapon the gained proficiency in at level 1. Unarmed Strike is not a valid choice.
So by this interpretation, a kensai cannot chose a Simple Weapon as his weapon focus?
On topic, to echo what's been said, True Strike's "Your next single attack roll" does mean it only includes a single attack roll. If you can make 3 attack rolls with Pummeling Strike, it affects only the first. Many attack rolls, one hit.
As a general rule here's how feats/spells/exct apply to pummeling style.
If the rule in question references a roll pummeling style is multiple.
If the rule in question references an attack (Not an attack roll) or unarmed strike pummeling style is one single strike.For the perfect strike question let's look.
At 4th level, when a kensai hits with his chosen weaponEach part of the flurry hits so it looks like number 1.
he can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to maximize his weapon damage. Don’t roll for damage—the weapon deals maximum damage. This affects only the weapon’s base damage dice, not additional damage from sneak attack, magical weapon properties, spellstrike, or critical hits. If the kensai confirms a critical hit, he can instead spend 2 points from his arcane pool to increase his weapon’s critical multiplier by 1.This talks about damage without referencing for the attack so it falls in 1.
I disagree with this interpretation. I think the difference lies in attack roll and a hit.
With Sneak Attack, and "On Hit riders" Sneak Attack just applies once. The Kensai's ability references hit, nothing about attack rolls.Disclaimer: I have nothing invested into this working, so while I would like more things working that differ from the "I 5ft step and full attack" drudgery, I am not advocating for it.
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So by this interpretation, a kensai cannot chose a Simple Weapon as his weapon focus?
That does seem to be the case;
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.
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Weapon Focus (Ex): At 1st level, a kensai gains Weapon Focus with his chosen weapon as a bonus feat.
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So by this interpretation, a kensai cannot chose a Simple Weapon as his weapon focus?
Yes, that is the RAW.
Fair enough, I understand the logic in that. Always been a bit lenient with kensai choices at the table I guess.
The wording on Pummeling Strike has created quite a lot of debating, I wonder if this got given a proper look in the play test.
(For the record, the build wouldve been a MoMs Monk1/Kensai4/BrawlerX or sacred first, with Janni and Pummeling Style. Ran some numbers and it was ok, situational and flashy mostly.)
Kensai doesn't say that the single martial or exotic melee weapon is your chosen weapon. The weapon section doesn't mention "chosen weapon". I see no reason another weapon couldn't be your chosen weapon.
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Kensai doesn't say that the single martial or exotic melee weapon is your chosen weapon. The weapon section doesn't mention "chosen weapon". I see no reason another weapon couldn't be your chosen weapon.
I'd say that it does:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.
You choose one weapon, and when the text later refers to "your chosen weapon", I think it's pretty obvious they're referring to that weapon that you chose.
That said, I do think it's a case of accidental needless restrictive rules. In a home game I'd allow a player to pick a simple weapon if he preferred.
You are trying to make pummeling style do more than it already does.The feat lets you avoid multiple DR and it vastly increases your crit chance, by multiplying damage of all your hits if one of those confirms as a crit.
It does not, nor does it need to, make every spell affecting one attack now affect all your attacks. Nor do all your missed attacks become hits (and crits) if one attack crits.
To me the one "one attack" phrasing has people reading too much into the feat. It does open up loads of questions (how does it interact with mirror images?), which I prefer to ignore and just go with the two (already pretty good) mechanical workings explained in the text of the feat.
I don't see where "should do" comes into it.
As a green doll once said, "Either do, or do not."
We only need a little grammar to make that quote fit here. Considering the green doll's actual grammar, I don't think I'm taking liberties. Also, I get to quote Yoda in conversation. Yay!
... Ahem. Tangent aside, We're trying to figure out what the rules say, here. I'll argue whether or not it should be allowed in my game with my players or my DM, depending on what I am at the time. Homebrew is good for when something is too weak or too strong.
Discussion on whether or not something should be allowed with internet strangers that I'm unlikely to ever play with is largely useless. Discussion on what the rules actually say, and what what they say actually means, on the other hand... That's pretty useful.
Alright, next question:
How does Janni Rush interact with Pummeling Style?
When you leap to the attack, your blows are like bolts from on high.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Janni Style, Janni Tempest, Acrobatics 8 ranks, Perform (dance) 8 ranks.
Benefit: While using Janni Style, you are always considered to have a running start when jumping. Further, if you jump as part of a charge and make an unarmed strike against the designated opponent, a hit allows you to roll the unarmed strike’s damage dice twice and add the results together before adding modifiers (such as from Strength) or extra dice (such as precision-based damage or dice from weapon abilities). The extra damage dice are not multiplied on a successful critical hit.
You may have 2 styles active with Master of Many Styles.
So is it:
1. Charge, get the Pummeling charge pounce roll the unarmed damage twice (without modifiers)?
2. Only roll the first attack roll twice.
I am very inclined to number 1 because it does not depend on an attack roll. Janni Style mentions an unarmed strike hit, which is what Pummeling Strike is, one hit containing many rolls.
The possible caveat here could be the "and make an unarmed strike.." which could mean just the first hit.
Alright, next question:
How does Janni Rush interact with Pummeling Style?
After you determine how many attacks hit, your total weapon damage for the attack is rolled twice.
Example, if your unarmed strike deals 2d6+10 damage (just made up numbers here) and you hit with three of your attacks during pummeling charge, you would deal 12d6+30 damage.
Want additional shenanigans? Get to 8th level MoMS and add in Dragon Style, too.
Thanks for the answers! Pretty much what I thought too.