Hullo people,
I love the SWD archetype. I have been thinking about how to best utilize the archetype, and the ACTUAL benefits of being extremely SAD and utilizing stupid amounts of HP on a full caster.
I've read through much of the internet looking for viewpoints and input on the topic via guides and threads, and most of it is bogged down with talk about the legality of half-orcs, Racial Heritage feats, and the like, but the rules are pretty clear about it now, so please don't begin discussions like those here. This query is directed toward non-PFS play.
Questions:
-CON Casting/Everlasting SADness: Is it really just to add a massive burst to your DC's and spells per day, or does it actually ever really make an impact in play? (other than derailing your skill utility)
- Spell Hex: Has anyone ever used this in an effective way for either a RP or Combat heavy Campaign? I imagine the DC buff to the right 1st level spell, or a utility spell of the like could really provide some interesting builds or general advantages
-Gishing with SWD: I really love the idea of dipping for 1 lvl of Urban Barbarian to get the Controlled Rage, and boosting Hex DC's, and going ham with a Scythe for a couple rounds, but is it ever really worth it when you're not playing a solo campaign? With Evil Eye/Misfortune/Slumber/Scythe combo I feel that its only real usage is to go berserk with your hexes. Furthermore...
-Eldritch Knight: If I DID go, say, Urban Barbarian 1/ SWD 6/EK 10, wouldn't I just spend all my feats on Extra Rage and Extra Hexes? And then that would considerably nerf the DC's on the hexes due to the level loss, yes?
-Prehensile Hair Hex DPR/Versatility: Worth? Does the damage from the hair apply to when you are attacking with touch range spells? I heard that somewhere, but it sounds really wierd. Would a monk dip make your hair damage dice go up? Anyone with any experiential insight on this?
-Enchanting the Mask: I feel that the most obvious thing to do with it would be to start with giving it a +CON enhancement bonus, and then branching out. Any experience/savvy ideas about that?
-Any general knowledge from playing a SWD or any Witch Gish? Hexcrafter Magus builds included.
Thoughts:
-Fell Gishery: I've been trying to make the perfect dark gish for years, and they all just have weird quirks that make it all seem not worth. How the action economy works makes it seem really superfluous/meh, UNLESS you were to Debuff in the first rounds and let your opponents wade towards you to let you STAB THEM WITH YOUR SCYTHE.
Thennn, it's kinda immensely badasse.
-Necropotence: I also love necromancy. Just love it. To this end, I think that a savvy way to use the Spell Hex feat would be to be to apply the Blood Money spell, to create a massive army of mercs for little investment... who needs STR anyways? It would also make a great way to actually use your massive HP pool.
In PF I've only ever had the privilege to play a PC that was a hexcrafter magus. We were really low level and the campaign soon dissolved, so it never truly shined mechanically, but it was a bit of fun.
Again, I've read through all the PF guides, and I'm really interested in experiential insight and savvy ideas.
Thanks, you lovely devils.
Bump.
This is too technical for just one post. I'll bite though:
1) You mean besides having more HP than most and a strong fortitude save? None that I can think of.
2) Charm Person comes to mind, since it'll be likely that charisma isn't a strong suit.
3 & 4) Personally, I don't think trying to "gish" a witch, wizard, sorcerer, ect. is a good idea at all. The witch class probably moreso than others since her hexes are level dependent. Eldritch Knight, no matter how you look at it, is simply inferior to the magus. Plus, the idea of spending so many feats just to keep your hexes relevent definitely isn't an ideal situation. I'd personally aim towards Accursed Hex or Split Hex.
5) Not unless you learned how to spellstrike from the magus class. A dip in monk would make the hair damage go up, since a monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon.
6) RAW, you're not able to add stat bonuses to the mask since those are specifically belt/headband slot items. Items that you could replicate would be from the head and eyes slot. I'd recommend taking a look at the list of those items and picking the ones you like. Of course, if you find a GM that doesn't care about those restrictions, then the sky's the limit.
7) This is were any helpfulness I have ends. I've only made one SWD for PFS from a half-orc although I've yet to play it. I've played a regular magus to high level, but have not touched any of the archtypes. I really enjoy the class as is. Honestly, if you want a gish with hexes, I'd strongly recommend going with the hexcrafter magus. In my mind, it's right up there in the top two for magus archtypes next to the bladebound magus.
5) Not unless you learned how to spellstrike from the magus class. A dip in monk would make the hair damage go up, since a monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon.
This is incorrect. The fact that unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured and natural weapon does not mean it increases the damage of all manu/natural weapons.
That being said:
1. Prehensile Hair is not worth it. Having high Intelligence is not that interesting for this build. Any damaging potential is sure to fall off later, as your BAB fails to climb and your attribute investment goes to CON.
If you want to make a dark gish, you probably want to go Hexcrafter Magus with crazy INT, straight no dips.
2. If you MUST dip, you could do worse than starting out as an Arcanist, perhaps a Black Blade one.
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5) Not unless you learned how to spellstrike from the magus class. A dip in monk would make the hair damage go up, since a monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon.This is incorrect. The fact that unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured and natural weapon does not mean it increases the damage of all manu/natural weapons.
That being said:
1. Prehensile Hair is not worth it. Having high Intelligence is not that interesting for this build. Any damaging potential is sure to fall off later, as your BAB fails to climb and your attribute investment goes to CON.
If you want to make a dark gish, you probably want to go Hexcrafter Magus with crazy INT, straight no dips.2. If you MUST dip, you could do worse than starting out as an Arcanist, perhaps a Black Blade one.
This is not correct.
The hair damage would go up if you dipped monk AND took the feral combat feat. That would bump your damage up to 1D6. It's not worth it but it does work.Second your Hair Hex would be getting it's damage from your Con bonus not your Int bonus, SWD specifically changes that. That COULD be worthwhile after a certain level but it makes your character burn their first standard action each feat activating their weapon. Can work with a AoO build but takes some work to do it.
For the OP I personally don't like the SWD archetype. It trades away a LOT of the innate power of a Witch for very little in return. Yes it gives a good boost to your HP's and Fort save but you lose all your bonus spells, the action economy of having a familiar, and makes you wait until second level before you actually get the hex class ability. The last one really strangles you on putting together your feats and hex abilities.
Overall this is an archetype that's trying to force a pure caster into melee range which is the LAST place they should be. You don't get anything to help you cast in that range and your Int is low so casting defensively is almost impossible, you lack most of the defensive/offensive spells so you can't blast from a distance or buff for melee combat. There aren't many offensive hexes so you are forced to use weapons (which you aren't proficient in). You have Hit points, and that's really all you get from this archetype
Thanks for the responses.
Mathwei, your points; I checked them. THEY ARE SO VALID. The bonus spells loss really poops on the archetype IMO...
I think I'm going to work towards a reach witch build, like Brewer's Reach Cleric, but only with hexing and Glaive coup de grace's...
Evil Eye, Cackle, 5 foot Step back, Combat Reflexes, shimmy shimmy shimmy 'till the break of dawn YEEEEAAA
Regardless,
One thing remains:
Any thoughts about Spell Hex?
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Thanks for the responses.
Mathwei, your points; I checked them. THEY ARE SO VALID. The bonus spells loss really poops on the archetype IMO...
I think I'm going to work towards a reach witch build, like Brewer's Reach Cleric, but only with hexing and Glaive coup de grace's...
Evil Eye, Cackle, 5 foot Step back, Combat Reflexes, shimmy shimmy shimmy 'till the break of dawn YEEEEAAA
Regardless,
One thing remains:Any thoughts about Spell Hex?
Spell Hex is awesome and I've been singing it's praises since it was introduced. Grep Hex vulnerability and watch everything every GM cry at your awesome Fortune, Healing, Slumber everything as often as you want.
Spell Hex: Hex Vulnerability.
So evil. I love it.
Spell Hex: Hex Vulnerability.
So evil. I love it.
It more than likely the only spell hex worth it.
As for playing a SWD, I'm playing one in a WoTR game. Honestly not having a standard casting score has been an issue from time to time but that's the games fault in not having that as an official rules statement.
By standard casting stat I mean as a rules reference such as "wizard casting stat - intelligence", the game doesn't have this as a standard so you end up with bad interactions like the oracle who sucks at some of the wiz based spells.