PFS - A Dishonest PC

[Revolving Door Alternate]

Ok, this is bit backward for me. Usually it have a mechanical ‘thing’ that I want to build a character around. So I’ve already got a start for a build. Say I want to use a whip and true strike to trip people, so I built a magus with wand wielder to tip nearly anything. But this time I have a concept that I’m not really sure how to implement.

I want a guy that do the sneaky conniving stuff, but isn’t useless when that is not applicable. So I want to be able to lie, convince, con, sneak, take someone’s place, magically make myself look/sound like someone else, find what’s hidden, etc… That stuff isn’t always applicable to PFS scenarios, but there have been quite a few where it would have been absolutely amazing to be able to do that kind of stuff.

But when a fight breaks out I want to have something better than aid another to contribute to the group survival. I really don’t care what the something else is. It could be buffs, debuffs, control spells, or whatever. Just something that everyone will easily recognize as helpful so I’m never thought of as dead weight. I hate that feeling and some of the really focused builds seem that way a lot of the time.

I remember a build somewhere on maximizing the bluff skill. But that is too much focus on just one thing. IIRC, the PC looked almost useless the for anything other than lying.

I’m guessing some sort of bard is probably best, but a friend suggested an illusionist.

So how would you do this?

[Flintas]

You could always go rogue with an improved feint build. You'll be pretty reliably getting your sneak attack in combat and have enough skill points to be versatile out of combat.

[Charender]

A well built bard can be very sneaky and conniving, and with bardic performance + arcane strike + a bow, you are not completely useless in combat.

[RumpinRufus]

Rakshasa sorcerer is a good option for a liar.

As far as making yourself look/sound like someone else, all you need is a Hat of Disguise and a Mummer's Ruff.

[axatillian]

Want to be a useful Bluffer make a rouge you can use bluff (if your really good at it) to re hide sneak to a flanking spot and start backstabbing.

or

One of my fave characters that I have made is a comedian bard he was just a lot of fun. If the other players cant see just how useful you are in combat they are just shortsighted, and really there is no class more socially adept than the bard.

[pennywit]

Have you considered an Inquisitor (Infiltrator)? Misdirection lets you put off the vibes of a completely different alignment, and Guileful Lore lets you add your Wisdom (in addition to your Charisma) to Bluff and Diplomacy checks. For combat situations, you'll still have your spells, you judgments, your domain/inquisition abilities, and a 2/3 BAB progression.

[Gwen Smith]

You might try starting with a kitsune. You can easily pick up the "magically look like someone else" without a lot of investment, which would leave you a lot of freedom in the rest of your build.

There are some good feats that help you use bluff and intimidate in combat:
Do a bluff-focused build with Improved Feint. Dip cavalier and use your tactician ability for Feint Partner: let other people attack the bad guy's flat-footed AC, too. A swashbuckler would be a good start here, or the Daring Champion cavalier archetype.

You can use intimidate to demoralize the bad guys and make them shaken. The Enforcer feat lets you do that as a free action when you do non-lethal damage (or you can just use your standard action if you have a high intimidate bonus).

Antagonize and Taunt both force the bad guys to come attack you, even if they take AoOs to get to you. Our bard used Antagonize to good effect, but you really, really need a good AC (or just a lot of people between you and the bad guy).

I've seen a gnome bard/ninja use Bewildering Koan to devastating effect. He's playing it silly, but you might be able to make that fit the flavor you're after.

[Imbicatus]

I'll make an unusual suggestion for the role and say Urban Druid. You gain the ability to spontaneously cast your domain spells (which can be the charm domain), at-will alter self at sixth level, and a bonus to diplomacy.

You have great control spells when you aren't being sneaky.

[Serisan]

A caster-focused Infiltrator Inquisitor is extremely good at bluffing and still provides combat utility. Use the Conversion Inquisition to support it for double WIS to Bluff/Diplomacy checks or the Heresy Inquisition for Bluff/Intimidate bonus from WIS and the ability to roll twice and take the better result WIS times per day.

Alternatively, a Kitsune Bard with that ridiculously overpowered shapeshifting feat that lets you impersonate any human is good. Not quite as high a Bluff mod here, but you significantly reduce the chance of increased Bluff DCs in many situations.

[boring7]

To be honest, you want 3 skills. Bluff, Disguise, and (maybe) sleight of hand.

You can get 2 out of three with starting traits (as well as a +1 to each) no matter what you play, you can get all of them by dipping a level of rogue or bard or the like too. Getting that tasty stat-buff is harder since anything that uses charisma to cast doesn't get the class skills and sacrificing caster levels is generally a bad idea. But a Samsaran Oracle who focuses on buffing the party and grabs a few illusion spells with the alternate racial trait and takes the "you get bluff and disguise as class skills" traits can rock a +9 to both at level 1 BEFORE adding in tools or spells.

And even if you don't max out charisma, at level 10 you will have a +13 from skill ranks, another +5 to +10 from permanent magic items that cost a few thousand gold, and would have had (at best) a +6 from Charisma. You can be whatever you want and still lie your way into things, it's more about skill ranks than anything.

[Wheldrake]

An archaeologist bard has full bard spells, as well as most of the rogue abilities, albeit a few less skill points. Pump INT and DEX and you'll be golden!

[Tarantula]

I'll second bard or archtypes of bard.

[pennywit]

How about an eight-foot tall half-orcish barbarian with maxed-out Intimidate?

Barbarian approaches castle gate wearing a stylish purple gown that's about three sizes too small for his mighty thews.

Barbarian: "Let me in. I'm invited to the party. I'm Princess Daria."

Guard: "No, I don't believe that you are the Fair Princess Daria. It is said she is beautiful beyond imagining ... '

Orcish Barbarian: "RRRROOOOOAAAARRR!!"

Guard: "Right this way, Your Highness."

[boring7]

pennywit wrote:

How about an eight-foot tall half-orcish barbarian with maxed-out Intimidate?

Barbarian approaches castle gate wearing a stylish purple gown that's about three sizes too small for his mighty thews.

Barbarian: "Let me in. I'm invited to the party. I'm Princess Daria."

Guard: "No, I don't believe that you are the Fair Princess Daria. It is said she is beautiful beyond imagining ... '

Orcish Barbarian: "RRRROOOOOAAAARRR!!"

Guard: "Right this way, Your Highness."

You know, for 1-shot PFS games that would be a lot of fun to roll with.

I mean, it could get us into a lot of fights, but that's part of the fun.

[Westphalian_Musketeer]

An inquisitor, pick up the Heresy Inqisition, and then decide if you want to be casting, melee or range-focused. Pick up the bonus teamwork feats that complement that build. You'll have the skill points to invest in social and stealth skills.

[shroudb]

empyrisist investigator is also an option

you get an amazing amount of skill points, plus can use inspirations AFTER the roll is made.

if you get student of philosophy or bruising intellect you can have almost all skills based on int.

you can have disquise self, alter self, focused scrutiny and etc through your extracts

and in combat you can either be useful through infusion discovery and buffing your party, or through mutagen buffing yourself and attacking, esp after lvl4 when you gain studied combat

[pennywit]

boring7 wrote:

I mean, it could get us into a lot of fights, but that's part of the fun.

"I'm a princess with anger issues."

[joeyfixit]

Mesmerist.

Mesmerists have good skills and all the face skills and magician skills (Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand), and lots of great face/spy spells, such as Disguise Self, Hypnotism, Undetectable Alignment.

Hypnotic Stare - drops opponent Will save as a swift action. No save, and opponent won't remember that it happened.

Hypnotism - out of combat creatures suffer a -2 to their will save. If they fail they don't remember being hypnotized. The drawback is that it's low-level only.

I'm currently working on a Mesmerist build with Improved Feint at level one. Mesmerists are proficient with whips, so I'm using the whip to feint at range, and then shoot them with a hand crossbow.

[ohako]

yeah, I think someone's right on the money with the skill selection, and either a bard with Spellsong or a Rakshasa sorcerer is the way to go to disguise/hide spellcasting

maybe go with Combat Expertise/Improved Feint, and kill people with a twilight knife in combat.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I have just started playing a little with a character like this. He's going to be an Arcane Trickster. He is going to have the Coax Information Rogue Talent and a Mask of Stony Demeanor, which gives you a +10 on Bluff Checks to Lie.

He'll make heavy use of Disguise, and Change Self, and you won't even know he's there.

He'll Vanish a lot and cast ray spells: ranged touch attacks vs. flatfooted AC with Sneak Attack Damage.

[ohako]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I have just started playing a little with a character like this. He's going to be an Arcane Trickster. He is going to have the Coax Information Rogue Talent and a Mask of Stony Demeanor, which gives you a +10 on Bluff Checks to Lie.

He'll make heavy use of Disguise, and Change Self, and you won't even know he's there.

He'll Vanish a lot and cast ray spells: ranged touch attacks vs. flatfooted AC with Sneak Attack Damage.

"Sir, could you take off that weird mask? I think you're trying to lie to me."

"No I'm not."