Oddly enough, the new ACG investigator does not get "poison use" and instead gets "poison lore." While Poison Lore is very similar to poison use, it would also not qualify for things which require poison use. I doubt this was intended.
2nd or third time with this quote
Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action. Whenever you apply or ready a poison for use, there is a 5% chance that you expose yourself to the poison and must save against the poison as normal. This does not consume the dose of poison. Whenever you attack with a poisoned weapon, if the attack roll results in a natural 1, you expose yourself to the poison. This poison is consumed when the weapon strikes a creature or is touched by the wielder. If you have the poison use class feature (such as from the assassin prestige class or the alchemist base class), you do not risk accidentally poisoning yourself when applying poison.In both the above (which is found in the afflictions section regarding poison) and in the poison use (ex) ability, both describe poison use as only in regards to "applying" the poison. The attack roll thing is a separate feature.
But the glossary has this:
Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action. Whenever a character applies or readies a poison for use there is a 5% chance that he exposes himself to the poison and must save against the poison as normal. This does not consume the dose of poison. Whenever a character attacks with a poisoned weapon, if the attack roll results in a natural 1, he exposes himself to the poison. This poison is consumed when the weapon strikes a creature or is touched by the wielder. Characters with the poison use class feature do not risk accidentally poisoning themselves.
Poisons can be made using Craft (alchemy). The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save DC. Rolling a natural 1 on a Craft skill check while making a poison exposes the crafter to the poison. Crafters with the poison use class feature do not risk poisoning themselves when using Craft to make poison.
That is how those rolls of natural 1 when crafting or attacking with poison are covered.
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Murdock, in the Poison section which I posted above, there is no mention about "when applying poison." It merely is "do not risk poisoning themselves." Which means both applying or attacking.
Sorry, wrong quote. The "when applying poison" is part of the poison use ability. Example, poison use from the assassin prestige class:
"Assassins are trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison themselves when applying poison to a blade (see Poison)."
Under the poison rules, there is one paragraph that actually covers two concepts:
Part 1: "Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action. Whenever you apply or ready a poison for use, there is a 5% chance that you expose yourself to the poison and must save against the poison as normal. This does not consume the dose of poison."
Part 2: "Whenever you attack with a poisoned weapon, if the attack roll results in a natural 1, you expose yourself to the poison. This poison is consumed when the weapon strikes a creature or is touched by the wielder."
Part 1 regards applying poison to a weapon and is what is covered via poison use. Part 2 is in regards to rolling to hit and is not applying poison, but an additional feature that functions on attack rolls with a weapon with poison applied to it.
The key confusion is that the natural 1 should also be 5%, but if you read the two closely, these are clearly different effects, as one consumes the poison and the other doesn't.
This is also why many of the classes with poison use also feature high poison resistance or immunity, as they normally risk poisoning themselves when they attack.
Oddly enough, the new ACG investigator does not get "poison use" and instead gets "poison lore." While Poison Lore is very similar to poison use, it would also not qualify for things which require poison use. I doubt this was intended.Incorrect. It has been verified that Poison Lore counts for Poison Use or rather PL allows you to purchase poisons just as PU...at least it does for PFS. The only question is whether an Investigator can still poison himself rolling a 1.
For PFS sure. That is GM call that says, "Poison Lore = Poison Use" for PFS play. If you don't play in PFS, you can ask your GM to make that same call. Just like a GM could also make the call that "Poison Immunity = Poison Use" if they wanted. RAW, poison lore, poison immunity, and poison use are not the same.
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Sorry, wrong quote. The "when applying poison" is part of the poison use ability. Example, poison use from the assassin prestige class:
"Assassins are trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison themselves when applying poison to a blade (see Poison)."
Under the poison rules, there is one paragraph that actually covers two concepts:
Part 1: "Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action. Whenever you apply or ready a poison for use, there is a 5% chance that you expose yourself to the poison and must save against the poison as normal. This does not consume the dose of poison."
Part 2: "Whenever you attack with a poisoned weapon, if the attack roll results in a natural 1, you expose yourself to the poison. This poison is consumed when the weapon strikes a creature or is touched by the wielder."
Part 1 regards applying poison to a weapon and is what is covered via poison use. Part 2 is in regards to rolling to hit and is not applying poison, but an additional feature that functions on attack rolls with a weapon with poison applied to it.
The key confusion is that the natural 1 should also be 5%, but if you read the two closely, these are clearly different effects, as one consumes the poison and the other doesn't.
This is also why many of the classes with poison use also feature high poison resistance or immunity, as they normally risk poisoning themselves when they attack.
Again, you are ignoring my quote. I will requote it for you.
Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action. Whenever a character applies or readies a poison for use there is a 5% chance that he exposes himself to the poison and must save against the poison as normal. This does not consume the dose of poison. Whenever a character attacks with a poisoned weapon, if the attack roll results in a natural 1, he exposes himself to the poison. This poison is consumed when the weapon strikes a creature or is touched by the wielder. Characters with the do not risk accidentally poisoning themselves.
Notice how in this paragraph, it discusses 2 things. 5% chance to poison yourself when applying a poison to a weapon. And Natural 1 poisoning yourself when attacking with a poisoned weapon. It then goes on to say that characters with poison use do not risk poisoning themselves. It makes no qualifiers on this statement, so all poison use negates all chances of poisoning, both on application and attacking with poisoned weapons.
This is also why many of the classes with poison use also feature high poison resistance or immunity, as they normally risk poisoning themselves when they attack.
No, per the glossary entry for poison, characters with poison use do not risk poisoning themselves by accident at all. However, without other abilities they are just as vulnerable as anyone else to the poisons of their foes.