Critical Hit bonuses

[Chris Clay]

I was playing a PFS game today, and we had an interesting discussion about critical hits.

Specifically, this line on page 184 of the CRB:

Core Rulebook wrote:

"A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together."

By the GM's ruling, any situational modifiers (specifically Bard bonuses, in this case) are not modified by the critical damage, since they are not USUAL modifiers.

The discussion came down to this - are items doubled (tripled, whatever) on a crit unless they specifically say they're not, or are they only modified if they specifically say they are?

Thanks.

[HangarFlying]

The only things that don't get multiplied are extra damage dice from things like sneak attack or flaming burst.

[kestral287]

The former situation-- unless they say they are not doubled, they are.

"Extra dice" abilities are the most common things that aren't doubled (Vital Strike, Flaming, etc.), followed by precision damage (Sneak Attack, Precise Strike).

But all of these things explicitly call out that they're not doubled on a crit.

[Kudaku]

Extra damage dice is usually not multiplied (the Burst part of Flaming Burst does however mean there is an increase on critical hits), and Precision damage is not multiplied.

The bonus from a bard's Inspire Courage would multiply, the bonus from a +1 weapon would multiply, but the damage a swashbuckler gets from Precise Strike would not since it's Precision damage.

[Chris Clay]

Thanks - this is how I thought it works.

As this if for PFS, I just need to get an official ruling on this.

Thanks for the input, guys!

[Kudaku]

While my knowledge of PFS is (very) limited, I think you're better off making a thread in the PFS board asking how to proceed or shooting your local venture lieutenant an email instead of seeking an official ruling here. This is a basic rule question, he shouldn't have any problem clearing it up. :)

[Chris Clay]

Thanks, Kudaku. I've started a post there.

[Nefreet]

Ah. I posted in your other thread before realizing this one existed.

Just FYI, if you're asking a general rules question, such as damage being applied to a critical hit, then this would be the appropriate forum.

If you're asking a PFS-specific question, such as Factions/Prestige/Fame/Additional Resources/Always Available/Boons/etc., then that would be the appropriate forum.

When a question gets posted in the wrong forum it's moved to help best get the answer you're seeking.

Hundreds (if not thousands) of rules questions have been asked in the PFS section over the years, with posters claiming they want a "PFS official ruling", but it's not the job of Campaign Leadership to create Pathfinder rules (or to issue errata or FAQ about the rules).

That's the job of the Design Team.

[Michael Hallet]

The problem is that there is no official ruling of what is meant by "usual bonuses".

I was a player in the same game. The way that the GM ruled (and about half the players agreed) was that "usual" means anything that is a static bonus that is the result of your own attributes, skills, items, and abilities, but not those you get from others.

So your fighter gets to multiply strength, enhancement, specialization, power attack etc., but not your allied bard's inspire courage or your allied cleric's prayer spell, because those are not bonuses your fighter usually has.

[Kudaku]

I read "usual bonuses" as "the bonuses that apply to your current damage roll" and I'm pretty confident in that ruling, but I can definitely see the GM's argument. Honestly, this question pops up often enough I'm a little surprised it's not in the FAQ?

[galahad2112]

@ Michael Hallet

The problem with this interpretation is it's scope. So, you're saying that the Str mod to damage gets multiplied....What happens if your wizard friend cast Bull's Strength? Sure, it's "Your Str mod", but you don't usually have Bull's Strength. Yet, it still multiplies.

It doesn't really matter WHERE the bonuses come from, the fact that you are taking advantage of them is what counts. The quibble over the "usual" designator is kind of fallacious as well. When I use a Flaming sword, I "usually" get +1d6 of fire damage added to my attacks, but it ceretainly doesn't apply on crits. If you're traveling with a Bard, they would "usually" start Inspiring Courage when a battle starts, wouldn't they?

Bonus damage of most types (Str, morale, luck, competence, etc.) will be multiplied on a critical hit. Types of damage that DON'T get multiplied will be explicitly called out as such, the 2 most common being extra dice and precision damage.

[Malachi Silverclaw]

The crit rules are unchanged from 3rd ed.

It was explicit that you rolled your damage, including all static modifiers but excluding extra dice, a number of times equal to the crit multiplier.

If your battleaxe does 1d8+6 (18 Str used 2 handed) +2 (enhancement bonus) and +2d6 (holy), then the damage for that weapon is

1d8+8+2d6 (20/x3)

If you confirm a crit

3d8+24+2d6

The weapon damage die and all static bonuses are multiplied by the crit multiplier, but the extra dice from Holy are not.

If the bard is giving you are +2 morale bonus on your attack and weapon damage rolls, then your damage is

1d8+10+2d6 (20/x3)

Therefore, a confirmed crit would do

3d8+30+2d6

[Kalindlara]

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

The crit rules are unchanged from 3rd ed.

It was explicit that you rolled your damage, including all static modifiers but excluding extra dice, a number of times equal to the crit multiplier.

If your battleaxe does 1d8+6 (18 Str used 2 handed) +2 (enhancement bonus) and +2d6 (holy), then the damage for that weapon is

1d8+8+2d6 (20/x3)

If you confirm a crit

3d8+24+2d6

The weapon damage die and all static bonuses are multiplied by the crit multiplier, but the extra dice from Holy are not.

If the bard is giving you are +2 morale bonus on your attack and weapon damage rolls, then your damage is

1d8+10+2d6 (20/x3)

Therefore, a confirmed crit would do

3d8+30+2d6

This. :)

[Chris Clay]

Thanks all for the input. This is what we thought as well, but went with the GMs statement otherwise. I just hopped on here to see if there was an official ruling somewhere I missed, and when I couldn't find one, was hoping to get one.