CEO, Goblinworks
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We are ready to turn on Encumbrance.
What this means is that your characters will have their movement rate reduced, to zero, if they are carrying too much stuff.
Obviously we don't want characters to be stuck in the middle of nowhere until someone can come and offload them. So we're going to give you some time to get your stuff transferred to a Local Vault.
With the next release, you'll be able to see the weights of what you're carrying and you'll see how encumbered you are when you open the Inventory window.
At some point in the future, we'll flip the bit which will turn on the speed penalties for encumbrance and that will impact your characters if they're overloaded. We won't do it this weekend, but we may do it early next week.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Could we possibly have crafted goods sent to the local vault at the settlement you started the job instead of in inventory when this gets enabled.
Less essential but handy - could the craft window also access the vault at that town?
It was not unusual for my armor crafter to queue up as many as 3 or 4 sets of +2 heavy armor at a time back when he was trying to sell on the AH .
( On the other hand, if it is "working as intended" that crafters need to keep inventory room free for what is in the craft queue we need a way of assessing what space we need to leave available) .
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Goblin Squad Member
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Could we possibly have crafted goods sent to the local vault at the settlement you started the job instead of in inventory when this gets enabled.
I hope they do this as a matter of course; it feels "exploity" to be able to queue up armour in Keeper's Pass for delivery in Ozem's Vigil, and have it magically appear in your inventory after you travel there during the build-time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Could we possibly have crafted goods sent to the local vault at the settlement you started the job instead of in inventory when this gets enabled.I hope they do this as a matter of course; it feels "exploity" to be able to queue up armour in Keeper's Pass for delivery in Ozem's Vigil, and have it magically appear in your inventory after you travel there during the build-time.
I would have no objections personally if the craft window totally ignored your inventory and only took mats from the vault and returned crafted and refined goods back to the vault.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(Seriously, the guys are telling me that turning Encumbrance penalties on is really just changing one line of code. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!)
lol .. because they already wrote the other 200 lines of code and just need to enable them ?
lets hope there are no "encumbrance bugs" :D
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Deleting items from inventory will be in before encumbrance is turned on (I think it'll be in the next build).
However, getting crafted items to drop into your bank instead of your inventory turned out to be harder, so I don't know how far it will lag behind encumbrance. You may want to hang out near the bank if you have something heavy about to exit the queue.
Direct-to-inventory drops from defeated creatures is working as designed (except for not having notifications). It serves several purposes including assuring a fair and personal distribution of loot, simplifying the PvE process, and preventing a bunch of half-looted corpses from tying resources up. Other than the (pretty rare) salvage items, creature drops have very little encumbrance, so the kills in between your opportunities to take a break and trade/destroy shouldn't make a big difference in your mobility.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope there will be some ability for gatherers to jettison items in a lump while fleeing. The mechanic for reviewing inventory, selecting the right tabs, dragging the sheavier stuff out, etc... is too cumbersome to operate while fleeing for your life, as opposed to "drop the big bag of pine logs and run". And of course, that bag of pine logs should persist long enough for the pursuers to grab it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?
So much for making meaningful choices. Wearing HEAVY armor should make you go slower, as compared to cloth and everything in between.
Otherwise, everyone will just run around in Heavy Armor,like in Alpha.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?So much for making meaningful choices. Wearing HEAVY armor should make you go slower, as compared to cloth and everything in between.
Otherwise, everyone will just run around in Heavy Armor,like in Alpha.
Not if there is some equally meaningful penalty to wearing heavy armour, such as a hefty stamina penalty. Reducing movement speed is not meaningful: ppl will simply remove their armour while making long trips. That is the exact reason why alternatives were being discussed, at least, that is what I thought.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not if there is some equally meaningful penalty to wearing heavy armour, such as a hefty stamina penalty. Reducing movement speed is not meaningful: ppl will simply remove their armour while making long trips. That is the exact reason why alternatives were being discussed, at least, that is what I thought.I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?So much for making meaningful choices. Wearing HEAVY armor should make you go slower, as compared to cloth and everything in between.
Otherwise, everyone will just run around in Heavy Armor,like in Alpha.
When heavy armor automatically meant slower speed, we had a choice between watching the party string out over many meters while moving, or waiting for the heavy armor wearers to doff their armor after one fight, moving, then waiting for them to don it before the next fight.
This time, though, it won't be automatic. Just wearing heavy armor shouldn't slow down a properly-slotted character. Wearing it and carrying a bunch of stuff will probably slow anyone down. That gives heavy armor wearers a choice between periodically deleting everything over the full speed encumbrance limit, or handing things off to their lighter-armored party members, and hoping that they'll re-split the goodies when it's time to disband the party.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?So much for making meaningful choices. Wearing HEAVY armor should make you go slower, as compared to cloth and everything in between.
Otherwise, everyone will just run around in Heavy Armor,like in Alpha.
Also: this point of yours has been debated here ad nauseam, and we've even seen video of men in full plate sprinting. So there really is no basis for that argument. Now, if you wanted to tell me that he would be slower in the LONG run in heavy armour, I would agree and reiterate my point about a STAMINA penalty for heavy armour.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Direct-to-inventory drops from defeated creatures is working as designed (except for not having notifications). It serves several purposes including assuring a fair and personal distribution of loot, simplifying the PvE process, and preventing a bunch of half-looted corpses from tying resources up.
Glad to hear it!
/murmur
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Goblin Squad Member
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You will have to decide to wear heavy armor and forgo carrying a lot of inventory, or wearing lighter armor and carrying more inventory.
I am OK with this.
I thought it meant the same old automatic penalty to speed for armour and encumbrance. If it is a threshold type of mechanic it should work fine.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?So much for making meaningful choices. Wearing HEAVY armor should make you go slower, as compared to cloth and everything in between.
Otherwise, everyone will just run around in Heavy Armor,like in Alpha.
Hopefully, there will be other reasons for the non-Fighters to choose other levels of armor.
Arcane casting penalties might do the trick for Wizards.
Poor matches with Armor feats might help, but I doubt it would be enough by itself, since anyone can cross-train Fighter armor feats.
A penalty to One-Handed Fencing attacks might help to keep Rogues out of heavy armor, but it might just encourage everyone to dual-class Fighter/Rogue.
If Dexterity-based abilities like Disable Device enter the game, a penalty to those might help, too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Direct-to-inventory drops from defeated creatures is working as designed (except for not having notifications). It serves several purposes including assuring a fair and personal distribution of loot, simplifying the PvE process, and preventing a bunch of half-looted corpses from tying resources up.
Well then. I never realized this was part of the design. I always figured it was just a workaround for the ability to pick and choose items from a corpse or a node.
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I should probably stop lying to the newbies who ask why everything is auto-looted.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You will have to decide to wear heavy armor and forgo carrying a lot of inventory, or wearing lighter armor and carrying more inventory.
This is basically going to mean that heavy armor is the preferred armor type for PvPers looking to make kills and further objectives while lighter armor is good for PvEers and PvPers focused on getting loot.
If the only real penalty to wearing heavy armor is that I can't carry as much that doesn't mean a great deal to me when my objective is to disrupt the enemy or take/defend on objective. I was already planning to delete any loot I got while fighting if I wasn't headed straight back to base to deny my enemies the chance of recovering it.
So unless I won't be able to carry many consumables, and consumables are hugely important to my build, then I don't really care about this penalty.
Also as stated in another topic, balancing heavy armor with penalties means that either low grade light armor will be too powerful or high grade light armor will be too weak since the balance is the absence of a penalty and not something that scales up with the grade of the armor like the protection offered by heavy armor.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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You will have to decide to wear heavy armor and forgo carrying a lot of inventory, or wearing lighter armor and carrying more inventory.This is basically going to mean that heavy armor is the preferred armor type for PvPers looking to make kills and further objectives while lighter armor is good for PvEers and PvPers focused on getting loot.
If the only real penalty to wearing heavy armor is that I can't carry as much that doesn't mean a great deal to me when my objective is to disrupt the enemy or take/defend on objective. I was already planning to delete any loot I got while fighting if I wasn't headed straight back to base to deny my enemies the chance of recovering it.
So unless I won't be able to carry many consumables, and consumables are hugely important to my build, then I don't really care about this penalty.
Also as stated in another topic, balancing heavy armor with penalties means that either low grade light armor will be too powerful or high grade light armor will be too weak since the balance is the absence of a penalty and not something that scales up with the grade of the armor like the protection offered by heavy armor.
Choosing to forego non-physical resistances will have a meaningful effect on the PvP metagame.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Direct-to-inventory drops from defeated creatures is working as designed (except for not having notifications). It serves several purposes including assuring a fair and personal distribution of loot, simplifying the PvE process, and preventing a bunch of half-looted corpses from tying resources up.Well then. I never realized this was part of the design. I always figured it was just a workaround for the ability to pick and choose items from a corpse or a node.
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I should probably stop lying to the newbies who ask why everything is auto-looted.
My only issue with auto-loot is it is exploitable. It will make it relevantly simple for high skilled parties/individuals to blitz large areas cherry picking just the red and purple mobs from each group and leaving the rest behind.
This may of course be of advantage to the lesser skilled parties who can clean up the left over yellow and white mobs in relatively safety.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You will have to decide to wear heavy armor and forgo carrying a lot of inventory, or wearing lighter armor and carrying more inventory.I am OK with this.
I thought it meant the same old automatic penalty to speed for armour and encumbrance. If it is a threshold type of mechanic it should work fine.
I'm looking at my commoner build - I've been running around in heavy armor. But if ore weighs 0.5 enc each... I might very well want to drop down to light armor, so I can carry more per run.
(Or maybe I don't. Maybe I wear heavy, and suck up the speed penalty on my trip home).
I would expect raiders and bandits to be wearing medium (or a medium/light mix) in order to take booty. I expect military types and those in area defense to go heavy, with light/medium auxileries. Champions/officers among a bandit force might wear heavy, of course. I think encumbrance will shake things up a lot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think it will be challenging and entertaining ... And something to adapt to. Just what I like in a game.
Now homebase will be more of a thing, perhaps we will see the different settlements begin to coalece when you can't carry all your goods around any longer....
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Goblin Squad Member
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I love the armor impact in regards to inventory.
It makes those looking to gather more vulnerable. That means they're going to want protection. This makes the merc concept vs. bandit very clear.
I think that's awesome and should make things very interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(Seriously, the guys are telling me that turning Encumbrance penalties on is really just changing one line of code. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!)
Turning them on is just one line, because the whole system was designed for encumberance from the start. Simply good project management.
If encumberance came as a surprise to the coders and items didn't have a weight(not just an unknown weight, but lacked an entry for weight), it would have meant updating every item and every function that handles items. Instead, I bet they've written the full encumberance system in from the start and just added a flag to turn it on/off.
So.. time to compile the lists of what each grade of gathered material weighs. And saying stuff like "dagger is the best weapon for a miner since it allows you to carry 2 extra ores" ;-)
(i was going to make a joke there about oneliners as turn-ons, but missed the opportunity. maybe next time.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also: this point of yours has been debated here ad nauseam, and we've even seen video of men in full plate sprinting. So there really is no basis for that argument. Now, if you wanted to tell me that he would be slower in the LONG run in heavy armour, I would agree and reiterate my point about a STAMINA penalty for heavy armour.I thought it was decided that penalties to actual movement speed were not going to hit the game... Wasn't it discussed in the armour threads that differing movement speeds was bad for the game and that you guys would implement some other sort of penalty for heavy armour/high encumbrance?So much for making meaningful choices. Wearing HEAVY armor should make you go slower, as compared to cloth and everything in between.
Otherwise, everyone will just run around in Heavy Armor,like in Alpha.
Basis: Sure a man can sprint wearing full armor. The question is, can he run at the same speed, as he would if he were not wearing heavy armor?
As someone who has run with and without a 70-90 pound rucksack on my back, I can tell you, anyone is faster without the added weight and encumbrance. Simply switching from running shoes to combat boots makes a difference. The argument that heavy armor does not impact speed defies common sense.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Choosing to forego non-physical resistances will have a meaningful effect on the PvP metagame.
Like the one it's had in alpha? Currently only one class does a great deal of non-physical damage and it has almost no protection against physical damage putting them on pretty even footing once the charge ability works. That won't change a great deal until we get into advanced classes like alchemist and magus.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well then. I never realized this was part of the design. I always figured it was just a workaround for the ability to pick and choose items from a corpse or a node.
.
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I should probably stop lying to the newbies who ask why everything is auto-looted.
I said so, didn't I!
*sulks in the corner*
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Goblin Squad Member
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Like the one it's had in alpha? Currently only one class does a great deal of non-physical damage and it has almost no protection against physical damage putting them on pretty even footing once the charge ability works. That won't change a great deal until we get into advanced classes like alchemist and magus.
Clerics have touch of darkness, and it doesn't provide opportunity. I've only used lower level expendables but it looks like almost all of the higher levels ones are non physical.
I haven't used trophy charms, rogue maneuvers, misc alchemy or grenades but most of them are non physical. Are these viable options for non casters?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well then. I never realized this was part of the design. I always figured it was just a workaround for the ability to pick and choose items from a corpse or a node.
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I should probably stop lying to the newbies who ask why everything is auto-looted.I said so, didn't I!
*sulks in the corner*
There, there. You were right all along, and now everyone knows it.
*pats Schedim's head*|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Choosing to forego non-physical resistances will have a meaningful effect on the PvP metagame.Like the one it's had in alpha? Currently only one class does a great deal of non-physical damage and it has almost no protection against physical damage putting them on pretty even footing once the charge ability works. That won't change a great deal until we get into advanced classes like alchemist and magus.
Oddly enough, downburst has been called too effective because it has a conditional that has been called "strictly worse" in a bow attack.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Downburst was utterly ineffective against Haagen running around casting Minor Cure on himself over and over. It's also largely ineffective against anyone with a Charge ability.
Trying to get in range to use Downburst on someone with a Longbow is terrifying, because of Basic Longbow Exploit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oddly enough, downburst has been called too effective because it has a conditional that has been called "strictly worse" in a bow attack.Choosing to forego non-physical resistances will have a meaningful effect on the PvP metagame.Like the one it's had in alpha? Currently only one class does a great deal of non-physical damage and it has almost no protection against physical damage putting them on pretty even footing once the charge ability works. That won't change a great deal until we get into advanced classes like alchemist and magus.
I'll let you and Nihimon debate that one but you do realize if you're the one in the right then that means that every single class has a good source of physical damage they can rely on when facing targets in light/cloth armor yes?
That considerably strengthens my case so I'm not sure what your point is.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Oddly enough, downburst has been called too effective because it has a conditional that has been called "strictly worse" in a bow attack.Choosing to forego non-physical resistances will have a meaningful effect on the PvP metagame.Like the one it's had in alpha? Currently only one class does a great deal of non-physical damage and it has almost no protection against physical damage putting them on pretty even footing once the charge ability works. That won't change a great deal until we get into advanced classes like alchemist and magus.
I'll let you and Nihimon debate that one but you do realize if you're the one in the right then that means that every single class has a good source of physical damage they can rely on when facing targets in light/cloth armor yes?
That considerably strengthens my case so I'm not sure what your point is.
I haven't dug through the expendables to see which ones do physical damage, so I'll take your word for it. I don't see why it's relevant that there is physical damage from all four classes, given that the generic sources are better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I haven't dug through the expendables to see which ones do physical damage, so I'll take your word for it. I don't see why it's relevant that there is physical damage from all four classes, given that the generic sources are better.
To me your armor feat is what best defines your role. So what do we have in the way of armor feats?
Wizards
All cloth armor with any damage bonuses to arcane (non-physical) attacks.
So they are extremely weak to physical damage and primarily put out non-physical damage.
Rogues
Light armor with melee (physical) and ranged (physical) bonuses.
They are weak to and primarily deal physical damage.
Clerics
Medium and heavy armor with melee (physical) ranged (physical) and divine spells (non-physical)
While one could argue that splits them between physical and nob-physical damage it's important to note that divine spells are primarily support spells, not the primary damage source of an agressive character, while clerics are perfectly capable of being highly agressive melee and ranged combatants.
So that makes them strong vs. phsysical and primarily physical damage dealers.
Fighters
Medium or heavy armor with ranged (physical) and melee(physical) damage.
So primarily physical damage dealers with high physical resistance.
The Breakdown
So let's assume the game is working. Charges work consistently, dedication bonuses are in, ranged is in its final form etc. What's our Rock Paper Scissors breakdown?
Wizards
Wizard vs. Wizard - Even match
Wizard vs. Rogue - Rouge is strong vs. Non-Physical and Deals Physical. Wizard is Weak vs. Physical and deals Non-Physical. Clear upper hand to rogue.
Wizard vs Cleric - Cleric is weak to non-physical though slightly resistant if wearing medium or has the protection domain, deals primarily physical. Wizard is weak to physical and deals non-physical. Slight upper hand to cleric or even match.
Fighter- Same as cleric
So Wizard is:
Draw
Lose
Draw
Draw
Rogue-
Wizard- Wins for reasons described above.
Rogue- Draw
Cleric- Both do physical, cleric is more resistant. Cleric wins.
Fighter- Both do physical, fighter is more resistant. Fighter wins.
Making rogues:
Win
Draw
Lose
Lose
Cleric-
Wizard- Draw for reason described above.
Rogue- Wins for reasons described above.
Cleric- Draws
Fighter- Would draw as both primarily resist and deal physical but wins because they do have some decent non-physical to throw into the mix.
So Cleric is:
Draw
Win
Draw
Win
Fighter
Draw
Win
Lose
Draw
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Goblin Squad Member
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As I was building craft charactrs I pretty much ignored pvP in Alpha.
The one time i was involved a level 2 cleric "hold person" seemed to pretty much negate any damage dealing potential of the assailant.
I think damage dealing analysis by itself is potentially misleading. If you did a similiar thing in EVE you would conclude Interceptors are ineffectual and Covops frigates pointless.