Encumbrance Is Coming Soon - BEWARE


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Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
Babylon 5 was a particularly good example...

Exactly the one I see cited most often in this sort of discussion.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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All the implements got set to arbitrarily high Encumbrance values as placeholders and I didn't notice until this week. They should only weigh half an Encumbrance with the next patch, instead of the 3-5 they're set to in the current live build.

Goblin Squad Member

Were those the only wrong values? Equipping a completely naked character with nothing in his inventory, with Hide and Steel Banded will fill up half his encumbrance bar. Give him a Longsword, a shield and a bow, and he is encumbered.

How much on average should the actual *equipped* gear weigh? Considering there are about 20 equipment slots. :)

I understand there will be bags which will multiply the amount you can carry, and Encumbrance Feats, but this sounds a little harsh. Though it certainly will be an incentive to go for lighter armors: a Quiet iron Shirt gave 1/3rd the encumbrance of a Hide and Steel banded.

I agree with armors and weapons weighing a lot, else everyone will be a walking Armory, just wondering how much your actual equipment amounts to on average.


Yay! Encumberance! Now I just need to go require things so I can be Encumbered! Like Armor, and a Bow, and Spear! Because I am pretty sure I gave all of that stuff away last week.... :)

Goblin Squad Member

It sounds like all things being equal, a heavily equipped character will be more encumbered, maybe even slower, than a lightly equipped character with perhaps light armor and only one weapon. Sounds like a reasonable design to me.

There will be bags - but we have to decide if our character wears a cloak for its benefits, or a backpack instead, to increase our load. Likewise, every point of encumbrance bought is a boon, but it comes at the cost of some other skill.

I think we'll be making decisions with loot we find. I know some village mates are already discarding all armor and weapon drops, for example, as too heavy to bother with.

Goblin Squad Member

Urman wrote:
I know some village mates are already discarding all armor and weapon drops, for example, as too heavy to bother with.

This seems like a rational response, and is perhaps intended and anticipated in the calculation of drop rates.

Dark Archive Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:
Yay! Encumberance! Now I just need to go require things so I can be Encumbered! Like Armor, and a Bow, and Spear! Because I am pretty sure I gave all of that stuff away last week.... :)

Yes, and I think Guildenstern has put most of it in the starter town AHs.

Depending where you appear, I will be on later in Hammerfall, pending teleports, and can give you basic items. Otherwise Doc should be able to outfit you if you are near Rathglen. Guildenstern was last seen talking to himself in TK.

Goblin Squad Member

I am hoping that they nail down and kill involuntary displacement before they switch encumbrance on fully. It has been difficult to get characters to places that I want to unload extra stuff. They keep moving. I thought it was better yesterday, but they all got displaced again.

Goblin Squad Member

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I have tried to dump my stuff three times now, but somehow I return the next morning with most of the stuff and encumbered beyond recognition.... and deep down in south....

It feels like Groundhog day

Goblin Squad Member

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I have not been able to log in to test encumbrance yet, but I have a few questions.

1- How does encumbrance affect the various "builds" people have been using in alpha and will new "builds" need to be created or modified now that encumbrance is active?

2- Do the feats that increase your encumbrance capability are so good/needed that they are basically mandatory and thus a "feat tax" that everyone must pay?

3- How does encumbrance interact with the sub-systems of combat, feats, keywords, armor, loot, gathering, role features and others currently implemented?

Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:

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I have not been able to log in to test encumbrance yet, but I have a few questions.

1- How does encumbrance affect the various "builds" people have been using in alpha and will new "builds" need to be created or modified now that encumbrance is active?

2- Do the feats that increase your encumbrance capability are so good/needed that they are basically mandatory and thus a "feat tax" that everyone must pay?

3- How does encumbrance interact with the sub-systems of combat, feats, keywords, armor, loot, gathering, role features and others currently implemented?

My play time is usually filled with running characters back to where they were supposed to be. Not much time for testing, on my side. I will say that some "kits" for builds seem heavy. Very. They have said that they are looking at that, so we will see.

Still in favor of heavy armor weighing more rather than slowing movement, alone.

Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:
2- Do the feats that increase your encumbrance capability are so good/needed that they are basically mandatory and thus a "feat tax" that everyone must pay?

I don't think so. I have no interest in picking up the Commoner-specific Strongback Feat because I want to have a pure Wizard build and get the Dedication Bonus (when that's a thing).

When testing the Encumbrance system, I saw that I was about 3/4 full on the first bar with just my equipped gear and spares for Armor, Staff, and Wand plus a reasonable stack of Lesser Tokens of Curing. After buying the Encumbrance Permanent Upgrade to Level 4, this standard kit seemed to only Encumber me a bit over 50%. Very rough estimates...

After fighting an Escalation all day Sunday, even with the additional Encumbrance Permanent Upgrades, I was so over-encumbered that I emptied probably 4/5 of my Inventory into the Vault before the top bar even started going down.

Goblinworks Game Designer

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Tyncale wrote:

Were those the only wrong values? Equipping a completely naked character with nothing in his inventory, with Hide and Steel Banded will fill up half his encumbrance bar. Give him a Longsword, a shield and a bow, and he is encumbered.

How much on average should the actual *equipped* gear weigh? Considering there are about 20 equipment slots. :)

I understand there will be bags which will multiply the amount you can carry, and Encumbrance Feats, but this sounds a little harsh. Though it certainly will be an incentive to go for lighter armors: a Quiet iron Shirt gave 1/3rd the encumbrance of a Hide and Steel banded.

I agree with armors and weapons weighing a lot, else everyone will be a walking Armory, just wondering how much your actual equipment amounts to on average.

I also tweaked some of the materials down a little bit at the highly concentrated end. But the equipment, other than the implements, is as encumbering as intended.

The general concept is that a unit of encumbrance is roughly equal to five pounds if it's relatively compact, with bulky items maybe being a little lighter per encumbrance. It's abstract enough that once you get up to a whole encumbrance unit, we also tend to round off to keep similar things similar rather than sweating the precise differences.

Thus, the weights of things are based pretty heavily on tabletop: one-handed weapons are 1 encumbrance (since most of them are around 5 pounds), two-handed weapons are 2 (since most of them are around 10 pounds), clothing is 1 (5 pounds), light armor is 4 (20 pounds), medium armor is 7 (35 pounds), and heavy armor is 10 (50 pounds). Most miscellaneous gear is .2 encumbrance (1 pound).

You start off with a 20 threshold, which is similar to a 100 pound max light load (which would be an 18 STR in tabletop), and can increase it pretty dramatically by buying the upgrade and Strong Back. The plan is for a character who gets as much carrying capacity as possible to get up to around 50 in T1, 100 in T2, and 200 in T3. Only 40% of that is from bags (which aren't in yet), and the rest is from feats (primarily Commoner) and upgrades.

So, your basic minimum is equivalent to a really strong character in tabletop, and it goes up pretty dramatically from there.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks Stephen, that clarifies a lot. I guess I have been getting used too much to carrying dozens of weapons and armors and hundreds of other items in the past few weeks.

If you look at the weight of Hide and Steel Banded against a possible total of 200, it looks more realistic. The encumbrance Feats do seem like a no-brainer for pretty much everyone though, if not for resources, then at least for carrying some loot.

Equipment for a heavy armor wearer with a bow, a sword and a shield will put him at around 16-17 Encumbrance (not sure how much Implements and shields weigh now), so finding a few bags will be a number one priority.

Goblin Squad Member

Just logged in after 2 week absence. Hail Zog, I was in the same place I was last time! :)

Here is what my PC has equipped, with no encumbrance related feats yet:
Pot Steel Plate +2
Cold Iron Battle axe +2
Hunter's Longbow +1
x2 Intro Trophy Charms
x8 Lesser Tokens of Striking
x9 Lesser Tokens of Freedom
x10 Ores
x2 Gems

First Bar: About 25% full
Second Bar: 100% Full

Going to go find the new trainers in Forgeholm and see what I can learn to increase my encumbrance capacity...

Goblin Squad Member

So carrying crafted armor to another settlement will have to wait for caravans?

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Giorgo wrote:
2- Do the feats that increase your encumbrance capability are so good/needed that they are basically mandatory and thus a "feat tax" that everyone must pay?

I don't think so. I have no interest in picking up the Commoner-specific Strongback Feat because I want to have a pure Wizard build and get the Dedication Bonus (when that's a thing).

To the best of my knowledge, just training non-Wizard feats won't endanger your Dedication Bonus. If I understand it correctly, you get a Dedication Bonus by filling all the slots on your paper doll with feats from a single Role, not by training only feats from a single Role over the character's entire career.

After a few months, it should be possible for a character to slot all Wizard feats for a Wizard dedication bonus, then swap in a full set of Rogue feats for a Rogue Dedication Bonus.

Slotting feats from multiple Roles simultaneously can provide an advantage due to synergistic effects. The Dedication Bonus is meant to compensate for that advantage when a character slots a full set of Feats from a single Role.

Or I've totally misunderstood the system.

Goblin Squad Member

CaptnB wrote:
So carrying crafted armor to another settlement will have to wait for caravans?

It sounds as if one character may be able to deliver one-to-few sets of armour individually, depending on what else he intends to travel with.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Giorgo wrote:
2- Do the feats that increase your encumbrance capability are so good/needed that they are basically mandatory and thus a "feat tax" that everyone must pay?

I don't think so. I have no interest in picking up the Commoner-specific Strongback Feat because I want to have a pure Wizard build and get the Dedication Bonus (when that's a thing).

To the best of my knowledge, just training non-Wizard feats won't endanger your Dedication Bonus. If I understand it correctly, you get a Dedication Bonus by filling all the slots on your paper doll with feats from a single Role, not by training only feats from a single Role over the character's entire career.

Yes, but Strongback is a slotted Feat for the Commoner Role...

Goblin Squad Member

Dedication bonus in combat, more carrying-capacity out of? You were one of the early advocates for swappable load-out templates :-).

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
Dedication bonus in combat, more carrying-capacity out of? You were one of the early advocates for swappable load-out templates :-).

Certainly possible. I have considered having a Gatherer build, but keep coming back to the idea of being a pure Wizard focusing on PvP/PvE at least until I'm able to fully utilize Tier 3 gear.

Boojumbunn just started a thread about "designing for weakness" that I think makes a lot of sense and captures the essence of what I hope to be able to do. In the past, I've often tried to do everything myself (or duo with my wife) - which is why I often got stuck playing a tank - but I hope to really be able to rely on others in PFO, and I hope to be able to finally, really, play a dedicated caster.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Giorgo wrote:
2- Do the feats that increase your encumbrance capability are so good/needed that they are basically mandatory and thus a "feat tax" that everyone must pay?

I don't think so. I have no interest in picking up the Commoner-specific Strongback Feat because I want to have a pure Wizard build and get the Dedication Bonus (when that's a thing).

To the best of my knowledge, just training non-Wizard feats won't endanger your Dedication Bonus. If I understand it correctly, you get a Dedication Bonus by filling all the slots on your paper doll with feats from a single Role, not by training only feats from a single Role over the character's entire career.
Yes, but Strongback is a slotted Feat for the Commoner Role...

True. I guess you could train the non-slotted Passive Feat, or follow Jazzlvraz's suggestion and swap Strongback in while running, and out before fighting.

Goblin Squad Member

Dwarven racial bonus to carry more or reduce encumbrance of equipped heavy armor?

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
I guess you could train the non-slotted Passive Feat...

As I said above, I did.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
I guess you could train the non-slotted Passive Feat...
As I said above, I did.

So you did.

(This is what a 1 on a Reading Comprehension check looks like, folks!)

Goblin Squad Member

Giorgo wrote:
Going to go find the new trainers in Forgeholm and see what I can learn to increase my encumbrance capacity...

Oops, no expert and commoner trainers in Forgeholm, had to run for 10 mins to Blackfeather Keep and pay them a visit...

After training Encumbrance Bonus 4 and Strong back 2, my encumbrance bars change to:

First Bar: 0% Full
Second Bar: 90% Full

Not bad; I can carry a full "heavy" fighter combat load AND still have enough for some loot/gathering. Not as much as a dedicated looter/gatherer, but hopefully I wont have to run back to town to visit the bank after a few monster fights. :)

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
(This is what a 1 on a Reading Comprehension check looks like, folks!)

And a confirmed critical on self-deprecating humor :)

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