Order of the Amber Die
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Anyone interested in forming a book club?
Many great authors have greatly contributed to the development of Golarion that can be useful tools for GMs who want to make their campaign setting come to life, perhaps by reading descriptive passages of locales aloud to their players, or even adding NPCs to game play that will resonate with the players who have read the books. They are also useful tools for PCs, similar to Pathfinder Companions and Adventure Path Players Guides, which can help with embedding characters into the region where game play takes place, and make them feel more like they belong in the story.
Here are some topics that we could discuss in a forum based on the experience of each reader:
• Interpretations of character, plot, and structure
• Relativity to Pathfinder scenarios, modules, and adventure paths
• Geographical locations developed by the author
There will also be rules discussions that could result in building stat blocks for GM/PC game play:
• Analysis of character classes, archetypes, and special abilities.
• Use of skills, feats, spells, and magic items in the story.
• Identify creatures and interpret combat with game mechanics
For the first book, I would like to vote for The Crusader Road written by Michael A. Stackpole, designer of level 3 of The Emerald Spire Superdungeon! Having played the Emerald Spire over the summer (The Emerald Spire Project) and at one point watched helplessly (paralyzed by ghouls) as my character was killed while venturing through Echo Wood, I am curious as to what Mr. Stackpole has in store for his characters there. Maybe the Splinterden thieves from his Emerald Spire level will make a special guest appearance, hopefully we shall see...
Ideally, I would like to get started sometime around the holiday season, so to all of you who may be interested, please try to reply by the weekend of November 8th and include which Pathfinder Tales you might be interested in, then we will start reading them on a bi-monthly schedule based on popular vote, with one month to read followed by a few weeks of discussion, then voting for the next book to open.
Hope to hear from you soon!
Aerick
Order of the Amber Die
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I am super supportive of this sort of thing! Good luck, Darkborn!
Tentatively interested. Only reason I don't offer full commitment is time constraints. But the novels are great work research and I enjoy reading them too.
Changing my answer: I'm interested. Where shall we post our comments and discussion? The Book subforum?
I am fine with Darkborn's opening suggestion. I have not read that novel and since it was DB's suggestion I think it is a fine place to start.
Best idea since the Chain Shirt... IMHO.
Interested.
Short answer: I'm in! I would enjoy starting with The Crusader Road.
Longer answer:
Yes! I'll participate as much as I can. I have read almost all the books published thus far and I have read almost all the Web Fiction thus far. I'm looking forward to all the discussion, especially given who has responded affirmatively so far!
I would also enjoy discussing the following books:
-Blood of the City
-Liar's Blade
-Skinwalkers
-Dagger of Trust
and
-Reign of Stars
Another option would be to break the book up by chapters over a shorter period of time. Something like: Read 3 chapters this week and discuss during this week and next week. That we we don't have to think about the ENTIRE book for the discussion, just the last couple of chapters.
On the other hand, that's more work for the organizer.
As a side note, I think it would be very considerate to put a spoiler tag on each book discussion thread.
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Thank you all for responding, I’m glad to be sharing this thread with everyone!
(And thank you to James Sutter for your support! I just picked up Death’s Heretic and The Redemption Engine, which I will hope our book club will get to read sooner rather than later, as The Emerald Spire has really sparked my interest with the authors who contributed to its design. Speaking of which – I greatly enjoyed your level, even though you came very close to ending our successful run through The Emerald Spire!)
So there are twelve us so far, and hopefully we’ll have more by November 8th when we get started.
Almost everyone seems to be on board with starting with The Crusader Road so far, but we should wait until all votes are in before going forward in case more readers sign up this week.
I would like to keep posting on this thread instead of other forums, mainly because if anyone else finds this thread they will be able to read our discussions right here to see what this is all about, and perhaps join us! But if any of you think posting in other forums could be more beneficial, such as starting a thread for each novel for organization purposes, or any other reason, please speak your mind.
I understand this is a time consuming project, and obviously we all have other responsibilities, so please respond with a pace you would be comfortable with. If one month is too little/too much time for you to finish a novel or too short/too long for discussion and voting, for whatever reason, definitely chime in. Hopefully, we should be able to come up with a bracket that suits most (if not all) of our preferences.
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Hey, thanks Darkborn! I hope you enjoy the novels--I think I'm honestly better at those than adventures, though I'll admit that I had a lot of fun designing my Emerald Spire level. Once you read Death's Heretic, you'll know why I absolutely *had* to have proteans in my level... :)
Also, to the book club as a whole: A book club should absolutely be an author-free space so that people can voice their honest opinions without feeling like jerks. That said, if the book club covers a given author's book and has questions, I suspect that many of the authors who hang around these boards would be happy to stop by and answer them, provided they're in a separate forum so we're not stepping on toes.
Have fun, everyone!
I am interested....
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Originally, I figured a month would be a good pace, as to not estrange anyone who had less time to participate than others, and unless anyone objects I would like to stay with that notion. But Itchy and FYM bring up a good point in that we could still maintain that schedule while breaking up the readings into chapters, which would probably keep discussions fresh. I can see how too much time between discussions could cause our process to degrade, having to make mental notes for future comments, or even make physical notes as to not forget any good points you want to make. So unless anyone is opposed, I say we try it that way. We can break up each book into four parts, by chapters, and after the first week we can start posting as we continue to read the next part over the next week, and so on.
However, going to a weekly instead of a monthly format comes has issues of its own, so we should all be mindful when it comes to spoilers. Everyone who decides to participate will be assumed to agree with the pace of readings, and that if a week goes by and those who not caught up on readings may want to sit out on discussions until they are caught up. However, from experience, it can difficult to put these books down, so those of us who have progressed past the readings have to be mindful not to overextend any comments or analyses that would be spoilers to the readers who are actually on pace.
So there are only two more days to go until our start date on November 8th. It looks like everyone is good to go with starting with The Crusader Road, so if you don’t have your copy yet please pick it up soon and we’ll get started this weekend. Thanks, again, to everyone involved!
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Hello all!
Today we start reading The Crusader Road by Michael A. Stackpole, from Chapters One through Nine. Commentary will begin a week from today on November 15th at 2:00 pm eastern standard time.
For anyone just tuning in, if you would like to be involved with our forum you are more than welcome, so feel free to catch up on this reading before the given date and join us! For those of you who continue beyond the required reading, or who have previously finished this novel and would like to partake in the discussions, please be mindful of where the story ends at Chapter Nine and limit your comments accordingly.
Thank you all, again, for participating! Let’s begin.
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In Chapter One, I thought the conversation between Tyressa, Blackshield, and Ivis was very interesting. Since I like to extrapolate game mechanics when I read Pathfinder Tales, the first thing I was thinking about was skill checks - Knowledge (nobility) followed by a series of very well-written Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks. It was like a combat encounter, but with diatribe and innuendo instead weapons and armor.
Overall, I enjoyed the book. This is my second reading, so I have more insight, but I will do my best not to spoil anything.
I thought that it was a nice opening to the book. I liked that Tyressa was strong in demanding that she be paid tribute. It was also telling to find out that Tervin Blackshield specifically went hunting for a noble wife in order to give himself legitimacy. He's not really a noble. I also wonder what Tyressa's family did it Ivis's family in the past to spark such hatred?
I find it itelling how Tyressa is able to leverage Silverlake's interest with that of other groups to form alliances with the Murdoons, the Fey, and the Druid woman. Her interaction with the woodcutters was most excellent too. She was able to figuratively cut the legs out from under the leader and get all the other woodcutters to seriously consider joining the settlement.
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Overall, I enjoyed the book. This is my second reading, so I have more insight, but I will do my best not to spoil anything.
I thought that it was a nice opening to the book. I liked that Tyressa was strong in demanding that she be paid tribute. It was also telling to find out that Tervin Blackshield specifically went hunting for a noble wife in order to give himself legitimacy. He's not really a noble. I also wonder what Tyressa's family did it Ivis's family in the past to spark such hatred?
I find it telling how Tyressa is able to leverage Silverlake's interest with that of other groups to form alliances with the Murdoons, the Fey, and the Druid woman. Her interaction with the woodcutters was most excellent too. She was able to figuratively cut the legs out from under the leader and get all the other woodcutters to seriously consider joining the settlement.
Ivis definitely comes off as no-nonsense woman. Although Tervin is the imposing figure sitting on the throne, it seems that her whispers in his ear from behind it are the real source of danger. I wouldn't go so far to say he is a figurehead, but for matters that he can't resolve through violence, Ivis clearly plays a more crucial role. Legitimacy indeed.
But Tyressa is also not to be trifled with. The Vishovs were apparently a notable family in Ustalav, which I guess they had to be because if they weren't, the betrayal of her brother wouldn't have been as significant. That's probably why Ivis despises her so much and repeatedly goes out of her way to point out that Ty is now of lesser station than her. As both are strong women who had a comparable amount of influence in the Ustalavic court, Ty having been shunned allows Ivis to rub it in her face every chance she gets, which reveals her as the type of person that Ty really needs to watch out for in the future. I'm curious to see how their animosity develops, and what else will come along with it.
As for that miscreant Pine Callum, he was deservedly - and almost figuratively - whittled down to size in that encounter, which I, of course, saw as another series of skill checks (with Intimidate this time) that completely turned the tide of the encounter. But it was just as significant a moment for Serrana, as she finally realized that her mother was just as experienced in a physical combat situation as she was in a political one. This bodes well for Silverlake. Good stuff so far.
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Just did a quick reread through of chapters 1-9.
One, Nelsa is my second most favorite character in this book. I'd pit her at maybe NG-CG, leaning more towards NG.
Two, Fey are a$**!!~s.
Three, it was very cathartic to see Callum come in with that psychotic deranged entitlement and then get his ass handed to him. I'd definitely mark him as CE.
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Just did a quick reread through of chapters 1-9.
One, Nelsa is my second most favorite character in this book. I'd pit her at maybe NG-CG, leaning more towards NG.
Two, Fey are a+~@$##s.
Three, it was very cathartic to see Callum come in with that psychotic deranged entitlement and then get his ass handed to him. I'd definitely mark him as CE.
I like Nelsa too, and I think her and Jarrad are going to do some interesting things together. I say NG for both so far, but we'll see how they develop. As far as classes go, I think they'd have at least one level in an NPC class (applying the Young Template) so maybe Warrior for Nelsa and Expert for Jarrad?
Totally in agreement about the fey! However, I thought it was a nice touch for illusions to be used for exposition with the Broken Men instead of their usual antics. In-game, I've had my fill of fey encounters; the most noted of those involve the Redcap. I played in a group that was TPKed by the D&D version, then I GMed one almost a decade later and the same thing almost happened with the Pathfinder version. (Armor Class 20, Fast Healing 3, Damage Reduction 10/cold iron...CR 6 may be too low for the Redcap.)
Pine Callum is CE for sure, and I'm hoping Ty doesn't regret letting him live because one of the few things you can count on with a CE character is that they neither forgive, nor forget.
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Just did a quick reread through of chapters 1-9.
One, Nelsa is my second most favorite character in this book. I'd pit her at maybe NG-CG, leaning more towards NG.
Two, Fey are a+~@$##s.
Three, it was very cathartic to see Callum come in with that psychotic deranged entitlement and then get his ass handed to him. I'd definitely mark him as CE.
I like Nelsa too, and I think her and Jarrad are going to do some interesting things together. I say NG for both so far, but we'll see how they develop. As far as classes go, I think they'd have at least one level in an NPC class (applying the Young Template) so maybe Warrior for Nelsa and Expert for Jarrad?
Totally in agreement about the fey! However, I thought it was a nice touch for illusions to be used for exposition with the Broken Men instead of their usual antics. In-game, I've had my fill of fey encounters; the most noted of those involve the Redcap. I played in a group that was TPKed by the D&D version, then I GMed one almost a decade later and the same thing almost happened with the Pathfinder version. (Armor Class 20, Fast Healing 3, Damage Reduction 10/cold iron...CR 6 may be too low for the Redcap.)
Pine Callum is CE for sure, and I'm hoping Ty doesn't regret letting him live because one of the few things you can count on with a CE character is that they neither forgive, nor forget.
Remember when applying class levels though that as a tie in to PO that the the game's mechanics might be more represented rather than the RPGs.
Going off the RPG though I'd definetly say Ty has a level or two of Aristocrat, and either that or Expert for Jarrad. In agreement with Warrior for Nelsa.
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So everyone should be continuing to read Chapters Ten through Eighteen for discussion starting at 2:00 pm this Saturday, November 22nd.
I was going to suggest picking up the pace, as I couldn't stop myself from forging past the required readings last week, but also for the sake of Itchy and Rysky who have been the only ones contributing in the discussion so far (ahem) and have already finished the novel. But perhaps that's a bit premature, as I'm sure we've all had weeks that were much busier than others, so I guess we’ll stick to the agreed pace of reading for now.
P.S. The discussion is still open for Chapters One through Nine, so if you're just catching up now or have more to add, please feel free to do so!
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Erk! I'll get back to reading. Life caught up with me and I haven't got past chapter 10 on the second read! o_O
Regarding the fey: They are not so much rectal orfices as they are different from us. They are creatures of the First World, and as such they are wild, unpredictable, and follow a unique set of morals. In Occult Mysteries, they mention some stuff about the Gnomes in the First World.
So for the Fey, locking someone in a cage for a few hours and humiliating them is all in good fun. They don't really have consequences for their actions. If they played a prank and a human died and did not get back up, they would be like my two-year-old who wonders why they caterpiller she picked up (Squish!) doesn't move any more, or like Number 5 in Short Circuit who asks Stephanie to reassemble the grasshopper that he accidently squished.
As far as the Sprites' treatment of Jarrad, I think of them as a little brother (like I was many many moons ago) who show their love for an older sibling by playing jokes on them and generally trying to annoy them. Yes, Jarrad ended up thigh-deep in a Sprite Bog, but Nelsa (who IS awesome) points out that they are showing him where to find Sprite Bogs so he can use the mud to cure Poison Ivy, I mean, Fireweed!
Also, think of the Nixies who are basically GIVING Silverlake a constant supply of firewood.
What I'm interested to see is if/how Jarrad grows as a Wizard and how Serrana grows as a result of seeing her mother's interaction with Pine Callum. I don't think that Pine Callum is gone for good (for the record, my recollection of this story from my first read is pretty hazy).
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Good afternoon! I have a few topics I would like to discuss:
#1) The Wolfmane Barbarians: Interaction with the Vishovs, specifically the situation with Selka and Lekar.
#2) The goblin attack on Silverlake: Jarrad's spellcasting, the death of Sunnock, and Tyressa defeating the ogrekin.
#3) Kiiryth: His allegiances and motives, giving the spellbook to Jarrad, then training him to fight.
Great book so far! But I sense something really bad is about to happen...
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The way Sunnock went down I truly did not see coming, Him having a sort of redemption in his mind and dying trying to protect people was an awesome surprise.
I know, me neither! My first thought was that it serves him right, for the betrayer to be betrayed, and I really had to suspend my disbelief with his change of heart considering he helped orchestrate the plan that would result in their deaths anyway. But the line in the next paragraph that read "...all the gold in the world couldn't buy the sensation of having someone look upon you with gratitude for saving their life..." sold me on his redemption and then I felt bad for him.
Hey guys and gals I am sorry I have been busy the last couple of weeks. I'll try to catch up.
I would suggest that the next book we do should gets it's own thread.
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Good afternoon! I have a few topics I would like to discuss:
#1) The Wolfmane Barbarians: Interaction with the Vishovs, specifically the situation with Selka and Lekar.
#2) The goblin attack on Silverlake: Jarrad's spellcasting, the death of Sunnock, and Tyressa defeating the ogrekin.
#3) Kiiryth: His allegiances and motives, giving the spellbook to Jarrad, then training him to fight.
Great book so far! But I sense something really bad is about to happen...
I'm not quite sure what to think of the Wolfmane Barbarians yet. Tyressa has certainly got them pegged. She is able to use their own pride against them to turn defeat into victory.
Regarding Sunno k, I'm not that impressed. One selfless deed does not a lifetime of selfishness, unmake. Had he survived, I think that he would have turned the respect he earned into something to hurt Silverlake.
I'm more surprised at Creelisk's change of heart. He wanted nothing more than for Silverlake to fail, but now he's doing all he can to help it succeed.
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Good afternoon! I have a few topics I would like to discuss:
#1) The Wolfmane Barbarians: Interaction with the Vishovs, specifically the situation with Selka and Lekar.
#2) The goblin attack on Silverlake: Jarrad's spellcasting, the death of Sunnock, and Tyressa defeating the ogrekin.
#3) Kiiryth: His allegiances and motives, giving the spellbook to Jarrad, then training him to fight.
Great book so far! But I sense something really bad is about to happen...
I'm not quite sure what to think of the Wolfmane Barbarians yet. Tyressa has certainly got them pegged. She is able to use their own pride against them to turn defeat into victory.
Regarding Sunno k, I'm not that impressed. One selfless deed does not a lifetime of selfishness, unmake. Had he survived, I think that he would have turned the respect he earned into something to hurt Silverlake.
I'm more surprised at Creelisk's change of heart. He wanted nothing more than for Silverlake to fail, but now he's doing all he can to help it succeed.
I think the Wolfmane Barbarians are an interesting part of the story. Our group that played The Emerald Spire had a short run-in with them while traveling through Echo Wood. From our Knowledge (local) checks, we thought they leaned toward the evil side, but in this story they don't seem half bad, just misunderstood perhaps. Sure, the situation with Lekar and Selka seemed like it was going that way, but since their leader is female that ruled out any sort of sexist implications. Also, the Wolfmanes made a decent point in that they did a lot for Silverlake. But thankfully Selka wasn't being forced into it in any way, at least as far as we could tell, but who knows if that's really true.
I'm with you on the Sunnock issue - his "sacrifice" doesn't exonerate him for his past crimes. However, Baron Creelisk is a whole other ordeal. He seems sincere, but the foreshadowing reveals otherwise.
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Good afternoon! I have a few topics I would like to discuss:
#1) The Wolfmane Barbarians: Interaction with the Vishovs, specifically the situation with Selka and Lekar.
#2) The goblin attack on Silverlake: Jarrad's spellcasting, the death of Sunnock, and Tyressa defeating the ogrekin.
#3) Kiiryth: His allegiances and motives, giving the spellbook to Jarrad, then training him to fight.
Great book so far! But I sense something really bad is about to happen...
I'm not quite sure what to think of the Wolfmane Barbarians yet. Tyressa has certainly got them pegged. She is able to use their own pride against them to turn defeat into victory.
Regarding Sunno k, I'm not that impressed. One selfless deed does not a lifetime of selfishness, unmake. Had he survived, I think that he would have turned the respect he earned into something to hurt Silverlake.
I'm more surprised at Creelisk's change of heart. He wanted nothing more than for Silverlake to fail, but now he's doing all he can to help it succeed.I think the Wolfmane Barbarians are an interesting part of the story. Our group that played The Emerald Spire had a short run-in with them while traveling through Echo Wood. From our Knowledge (local) checks, we thought they leaned toward the evil side, but in this story they don't seem half bad, just misunderstood perhaps. Sure, the situation with Lekar and Selka seemed like it was going that way, but since their leader is female that ruled out any sort of sexist implications. Also, the Wolfmanes made a decent point in that they did a lot for Silverlake. But thankfully Selka wasn't being forced into it in any way, at least as far as we could tell, but who knows if that's really true.
I'm with you on the Sunnock issue - his "sacrifice" doesn't exonerate him for his past crimes. However, Baron Creelisk is a whole other ordeal. He seems sincere, but the foreshadowing reveals otherwise.
Actually from my reading of it there might have been forcing, but for Lekar's part from the Wolfmanes. The way Ty notes how he keeps his arm around Selka in a protective state, not a possessive one, and also very importantly in how she notices Selka rubbing her stomach it's safe to say they've had a relationship that's been going on for awhile and either Lekar and Selka wanted to make it official or the rest of the Wolfmanes found out and they demanded Lekar take responsibility :3
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Assuming everyone has finished reading Chapters Nineteen to Twenty Seven, I want to start off by acknowledging how sick Creelisk is. He’s a classic sociopath, making him the prefect antagonist - one who is able to fool Tyressa, who has a high Sense Motive check. Volunteering to join the rest of Silverlake in the lashings from Blackshield was the perfect move to get everyone else believing his lies too. His willingness to sacrifice his son to help “sell” his intended tragedy of Silverlake is insanely evil. If Ranall was anything like his father I wouldn’t mind so much, but he’s a really good kid who has also been fooled by his father – all his life – and, sadly, loves him in his ignorance.
If Creelisk doesn’t die a horrible death for this I will be sorely disappointed.
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Creelisk interests me in this regard, don't get me wrong, he's a sociopath through and through, bu it is something when the book gives insight into his head and you see good thoughts pop up here and there, ones he promptly squashes, but the fact that there even there to begin with is telling. It's like his soul is desperatly crying out to him to redeem himself, like Sunnock's mental realization, or at least not do these evils. But it fails.
I was truly impressed with all the characters when Blackshield came to deliver punishment. Everyone standing up to Blackshield and willingly sacrificing thenselves for Jarrad was awesome on it's own but when Blackshield still went through with the whippings instead of backing down from the crowd that looked like it was about to descend on him like a Black Friday mob and everyone of Silverlake still let themselves be whipped to show how much they care for each other and that they would not be bowed was awe inspiring.
I'd also like to draw special attention to Chapter 27 - Broken Men; Jarrad and Nelsa's interactions were just flat out adorable and heartwarming, innocent first love like that always gives me warm and fuzzy feelings ^w^ which served as a good contrast when the Broken Men -and my favourite character in the novel- are truly introduced.
If Creelisk doesn’t die a horrible death for this I will be sorely disappointed.
Just think back to Chapter One - In The Court of Baron Blackshield. That's all I'm gonna say on the subject :3
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Creelisk interests me in this regard, don't get me wrong, he's a sociopath through and through, bu it is something when the book gives insight into his head and you see good thoughts pop up here and there, ones he promptly squashes, but the fact that there even there to begin with is telling. It's like his soul is desperatly crying out to him to redeem himself, like Sunnock's mental realization, or at least not do these evils. But it fails.
I was truly impressed with all the characters when Blackshield came to deliver punishment. Everyone standing up to Blackshield and willingly sacrificing thenselves for Jarrad was awesome on it's own but when Blackshield still went through with the whippings instead of backing down from the crowd that looked like it was about to descend on him like a Black Friday mob and everyone of Silverlake still let themselves be whipped to show how much they care for each other and that they would not be bowed was awe inspiring.
I'd also like to draw special attention to Chapter 27 - Broken Men; Jarrad and Nelsa's interactions were just flat out adorable and heartwarming, innocent first love like that always gives me warm and fuzzy feelings ^w^ which served as a good contrast when the Broken Men -and my favourite character in the novel- are truly introduced.
If Creelisk doesn’t die a horrible death for this I will be sorely disappointed.Just think back to Chapter One - In The Court of Baron Blackshield. That's all I'm gonna say on the subject :3
That was one of my favorite scenes with them too. I've been waiting for them to enter the story from the beginning when they were mentioned. Give the title of the novel, one would think that the actual Crusader Road would have a significant part to play, aside from Jerrad crossing it to get to Mosswater. Hm. Perhaps they were his father's men, or at least knew him, like Jerrad suspected. Or maybe one of the WAS him? After all, it's been so long and the way his father was described he would surely look different after all this time, especially if he was starving and all. Plus, Jerrad was so young back then, who knows if he would've really recognized his father anyway, especially form that distance.
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That was a great book! Everyone got what they deserved in the end. Although I really wanted to see Creelisk die a more violent death, it was still rewarding to see the betrayer betrayed, sort of like Sunnock but without so much as a sliver of heroism in the end. I was hoping Tervin and Ivis would also meet their end, but I guess that's another story...
I was also glad to see Garath Sharpax come home, especially since so many crusaders never make it back from the Worldwound. (It makes me want to try my hand at the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path, but that's still in the works.) What a massive battle - the Vishovs, Murdoons, Wolfmanes, and Echo Wood fey against an army of ogres and goblins, that was awesome. Well done, Mr. Stackpole, I hope a sequel is in the works!