So... you code-switch into poor grammar? Please explain.
EDIT: I am very curious what you mean, by the way. I'm generally interested in learning something new, so please do educate me! :)
essentially yes in a sociolingual sense. like how you talk differently at work than when you're keeping it cas with your boys. not that I think you have boys to hang w/
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Ah, thanks! Nifty. I do recall hearing that before. It's been quite a while, though. Good to remember! :)
However, it should be noted, your code switching mode is often seen as poor grammar on boards like these, unless you've established an agreeable personality to cover it or are going for the inherent humor or 'style' to be gained thereby (which is usually a less-serious identity).
Thus, in general, if you wish to be taken seriously, especially with the confrontational style you're cultivating, I'd recommend switching back. If, on the other hand, you do not wish that or want to forge ahead, you may, of course, feel free not to - it is, after all, a free country and generally free forum.
Your concern about whether or not I have boys to hang with is... funny to say the least, and shared back at you! That a self-professed teen is awake hoping to rile a "pops" at some point between midnight (West coast) or three (East coast) speaks poorly either of his social habits or sleep schedule (which tends to impact his performance at classes). My own schedule is a mess. Comes with the territory of worrying for a premature newborn currently in the hospital, and being a natural night owl. Fortuitously, I've no classes, though!
Regardless of any umbrage you've taken from this conversation - or any sense of superiority you've gained - I truly wish you the best, and hope you make wise decisions in the future, both in your social media expressions (such as a cultivated persona on forums such as these) and in general.
EDIT: for formatting. Looks nicer and is easier to read this way.
yeah I'm kind of a loser tbh
Don't be! Change yourself! It's certainly within your own capability to alter whether or not you are a "loser" - hence, you can and should. For your sake as well as that of those you care about and/or who care about you.
Being a teen is tough.
Being an adult (well, sort of, as much as that term applies to me :D) is tougher. Both can be rewarding and awesome. So enjoy, and get some sleep!
I'm sure you've heard the saying, "early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise" - I am unhealthy, unwealthy, and (most probably) unwise. I am also late to bed. Hm. Coincidence?!?! ... maybe, but at the present time, sleep is a good thing. Rest, and we shall talk perhaps tomorrow. :)
that's a good idea. take it easy
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I don't really wanna talk about drugs anyway. ontopic @all: what do you think is different about being a teen now compared to whenever you were a teen
Remember, I was never a teen, but if I was...
Part of it depends on what part of the world you were in.
In some parts of the US, teen pregnancy was probably actually higher back then. Birth control was known, but not pushed as hard. On the otherhand, even with pregnancy up, teen premarital sex was not as high a percentage. I'd say it was actually much lower.
Teens binge drinking and drinking alcohol was not as high either. There were many who drank, who wanted to drink, and who pretended they had drank, but overall, I think the percentages were much lower.
There was no such thing as texting and cellphones.
Living together before marriage was NOT an acceptable thing to do. In fact, it was still scandalous. You still had a high divorce rate though, and I suspect a large infidelity rate.
I think the younger generation was more religious, or accepting of religion. It's been noted in some surveys that youth today are more skeptical of religion.
Malls were a bigger place for the youth to hang out in. It also had a higher percentage of bookstores, movie stores, and stores that guys would be attracted, hence malls had more attraction for couples (guys and girls both). I still see teens in the malls, but not as high as it used to be, and I think part of it is that they lost a LOT of the attraction many of the guys would go to the malls for.
Kids could afford newer cars. Kids would actually BUY newer used cars, instead of the older cars that they buy now (I still see kids drive newer used cars also, but I think parents who used to buy their kids the Mercedes and Porsches now buy the newer used cars and that instead of the Mercedes and Porsches, at least in most high schools).
They didn't have this emo and goth thing that exists these days.
I think drugs were a big problem back then. I think awareness of drugs is higher among teens these days, and awareness of what they may do and could do to you is also higher. You still have your idiots who will be brain dead by the time they hit 20, but I think many kids are very smart in regards to drugs and drug use. That doesn't mean many don't want to experiment just to see, but they know there are ramifications and things to be careful of.
Back then and now they all think they are immortal.
We had the big three channels of TV...cable and satellite really wasn't the big thing back then.
We also didn't have the internet, so no email, forums, or other things.
You could get comicbooks at the gas stations, in the stores, and any place that sold magazines or newspapers.
You could also buy wargames, niche games, roleplaying games and other things like that at the toy stores and at department stores.
Baseball was bigger (IMO) then it is today (at least from what I've seen). American Football, while popular, wasn't as big as it's become.
Science Fiction was bigger, Fantasy not so much.
Both were trumped by drama and private investigator books and shows (wow, PI shows used to be really big!). Not as much reality TV (unless you count wrestling).
Just some of the things that come to mind off the top of my head.
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yeah I'm kind of a loser tbh
Why?
The best advice I ever heard given to a teen, was to not let the opportunities of high school pass you by.
If you are in high school, unless you have no athletic ability, go do some sports on some sports teams.
It's an opportunity that is best taken advantage of in High school. It's the easiest portion of competitive sports to get into, and taking the chance to do sports in high school is a great experience for social and teamwork growth.
Even if you do sports, take an interest in hobbies and clubs in High school. You enjoy Latin, join the Latin club. You enjoy RPGs, join the game club, and if they don't have one, try to take some initiative and start one.
You can also join non-physical activity teams...such as the Academic Decathlon or chess team.
I was never a teen, but if I had been...
I joined in several sports teams, and eventually did some sports in college as a result. You never know what doors may open for you.
I also did chess team and academic decathlon, was in the Latin club and orchestra. I played in the state youth orchestra.
I didn't do the binge drinking, nor did I do anything scandalous, but I took advantage of the opportunities that high school offered. If you are still in HS, you have opportunities that you may not have again, take advantage of them. Live life, and you won't have regrets of opportunities that you could have tried, but didn't.
A lastly, don't view yourself as a loser. Here's one secret that many don't realize. Half the people out there, even if they are some of the most popular people in school, don't feel popular, and don't feel successful...even if they win state championships sometimes. There was a football receiver who was extremely successful in high school. He had many friends, and was very popular. He felt so unpopular and so unsuccessful he dropped out. It was terrible, because he didn't feel like he was doing well because his grades weren't as high as others, and he didn't feel he could keep up or others were there that could help him to catch up. I'm not certain, but I heard eventually he ended up in dealing drugs...and don't know what happened to him after that.
Just realize, you aren't a loser (no one can tell if they are a loser in HS, unless they are already jailed for life in prison by that point). It's a starting point, and it's one that you can change at any time to take advantage of. I hope you do, and if you already are, I'm certain you are anything BUT a loser.
It doesn't matter how many friends you have in HS, or if you see yourself as popular or not, but what you do to take advantage of the opportunities presented.
that was just some self-dep on my part because although I'm happy and have friends, bae & all that, I can be kind of a cornball*.
I am touched by your concern all the same and will take your advice on board. (not in hs now, but when I was, basketball coach was always trying to hit me up to play. the problem was that I'm corn bad at it and at the time the 'you're tall so play ' thing grated along my contrarian streak I guess. I am currently helping out with the rpg club here). it's definitely sad when people feel adrift.
as an older person do you think that the internet is making people more isolated and more scared and distrustful of each other in general as it becomes more and more of a part of everybody's lives?
*plus the guy is correct. I am talking on the offtopic forum of a tabletop rpg publisher at an evil hour. poor position to be bringing a person's social life into question, I think you'll agree.
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as an older person do you think that the internet is making people more isolated and more scared and distrustful of each other in general as it becomes more and more of a part of everybody's lives?
Yes and no. Personally, the bulk of my social life IS the internet. I'd never have met my closest friends without it, and having had to relocate to a little town hours away from home for work, it's been a saving grace.
However, some people are increasingly dependent on it to the point that they do start to actively show signs of withdrawal if they cannot access social media...particularly the teenagers who grew up on it. I cannot go five minutes in my class without having to remind them to put their phones up, their friends will still be there in the half hour it will take for the bell to ring. They won't open up to assigned groups to discuss a project...they'll hop on their phones and text the people they already know. We're losing the ability to socialize at the same time such has never been made more accessible. We're getting trapped in echo chambers where we're afraid to break out of what is familiar, be that people or simply the feedback we know they will provide.
Back on the larger topic at hand, teaching has been the clearest way I've ever seen to note the differences between when I was a kid and now. I have very little in common with my classes...they seem absolutely boggled that I don't drink, smoke, or date. Not from any moral mandate - I just never cared and still don't. Some of my students are parents themselves, a prospect that would terrify me - I don't want to be a parent at least in part on the basis of my inability to keep a fish alive, let alone a tiny human..., and I can't even imagine being one while still in school. I'm fielding discipline notices on a regular basis and unable to understand why as I readily admit that I was and still am some sort of hybrid Hermione Granger/Luna Lovegood. Why would anyone not want to excel at school or be fine with getting in trouble on a regular basis? It's been a major culture shock on my part just trying to understand the mindset of what I've long known are the normal kids that I never really meshed with when I was a student.
It could be geographic. I grew up in suburban Missouri and am now in rural Kansas where there is significantly less to do. It could be partly based in my upbringing, though my parents weren't particularly strict compared to some of the more hyper religious families...but my parents have outright told me I was harder on myself for some things than they ever were, and my sister had the same upbringing and still turned out vastly differently than I did, which tells me it's at least partly nature rather than nurture.
I'm honestly agog at your abstinence and your question there (the 'why would anybody want to not excel at school and be in trouble ever?' one) I am pretty sure that most adults I know would be also. you probably would have mentioned if you had tried any of it. background and being sheltered is maybe a big factor but it sounds as though some people are born wired to not want to do some stuff I guess. did you enjoy being a teenager?
My growing-up was pretty much the same as hers, minus not being quite as intellectually involved, and I very often ask that same question about kids/teens. I was the kind of kid that did everything possible to stay out of trouble, and I certainly didn't enjoy NOT getting good grades. The fact that that question boggles you just serves as a great example of how I can't seem to comprehend your (and those like you) mindset where you WOULDN'T think that - it's so alien to me I can't imagine myself in your place.
I've always understood that there were kids like that, and I've generally always (as an adult, at least; as a teen I was a bit more naive) understood that they're the majority. But I've never been able to comprehend the why or how behind it. It seems so utterly illogical and out of nowhere to me, and I've never understood the desire or mindset.
I enjoyed my teenage years, yes. But my idea of an entertaining night at that age was sitting in my room playing video games or reading a book. I had no desire to "go out", one of my two really close friends who wasn't my brother moved away at the beginning of high school so I didn't have a reason to "go out" or visit friends' homes very often (and when I did, I lived in a small town so I could quite literally walk to and from my friend's house), I didn't have a car and didn't want one (and, if I could get around without one, I probably still wouldn't - I don't enjoy driving, it's a necessary evil, but at least when I'm driving my own car I can pick the music), and I certainly had no desire for drugs or sex. If I had been allowed to stay up all night, I would have spent it beating whatever game I was playing or blitzing through whatever novel had my attention at the time, rather than carousing around town or anything else that I would suppose "normal" teens would use that time for. Yes this is something I considered on a semi-regular basis at that age when I would grumble about my parents setting my bedtime at 9 PM. (Though that got bumped to 10 in high school.)
My one real social outlet and the main thing that would get me out of the house for extended periods of time other than school was being in the band - I've never been a big football fan but I loved being in the band and playing and going on the road trips to postseason games. I really couldn't care how the game went, except that if we won it meant the band got to go on more trips and play in new places. And then there was the concerts and competitions in the second semester after football season ended.
That really hasn't changed over the past 10-15 years. My typical day these days is to go to work, come home, and spend the evening chatting with my friends on Skype, playing video games on my computer/3DS/PS2, playing Pathfinder, reading a book, or listening to music, or some combination of the above. (Funny enough, as much as I like music - especially metal - I don't enjoy concerts. I've been to one or two and the crowds and noise and smoke and everything else just don't appeal.) As mentioned above I plan to get cats in the near future so add that to the list eventually. And I'm pretty happy with the arrangement, yes.
I'm certain that I'm more incredulous than you are actually so it's not such a great example. seems as though you are even less adventurous than most folks! I guess if I had to answer the question 'why don't you want to excel at school or stay out of trouble' I would say that it was made pretty clear to me early on that academic success didn't guarantee success or happiness.
as for the trouble part, you know how it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission? I guess there was never a whole lot of fear. at least not enough to forget that it's way more fun to skip or stay out and get into something than it is bad to be punished. it's nice to be liked so if that means caving to peer pressure then so be it, people talk a big game about it. there's a point where you're like 'f!!~ it, I haven't called home, might as well have some fun if they're already mad' too I guess
if you've never been drunk or high then I guess you wouldn't know what you're missing and a lot of people aren't that into it when they first try it but get into it when the context becomes right, which would involve having more than one friend prolly.
also I've never seen a goth kid irl. I think they stopped doing that
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seems as though you are even less adventurous than most folks!
Probably! My idea of adventurous behavior was four-wheeling or horse riding at my cousin's ranch and actually going off the trails, or wandering into the wooded area in the pasture behind our house and wandering around for hours in the mini-forest there, climbing trees and trying not to get bitten by snakes. (Which thankfully was helped by the fact that our cats tended to tag along.)
you know how it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?
I think this might be part of it. This has never been true in my life, and my parents and teachers and other mentors of the early part of my life made quite sure of that. There were a great many things I learned very young that if I'd asked in advance I would have simply gotten told "no", whereas from doing so without asking I actually got in trouble and got punished.
there's a point where you're like 'f#&~ it, I haven't called home, might as well have some fun if they're already mad' too I guess
Yeah... also something I never considered. I was always more of the "I'd better (do whatever is required to rectify the situation) while the parents are still only slightly mad, before they just get MORE mad" mindset.
I also learned very young that if I went to my parents and confessed and apologized first, I would get in far less trouble than if they found out on their own some other way, such as getting a phone call, or receiving a note/letter from the school, or discovering me not where I was supposed to be at a certain time without a good excuse.
One example that comes to mind: when I was in junior high I got into a fight. In addition to the punishment levied by the school, I got grounded for a week at home because my parents found out via receiving a letter in the mail informing them of my infraction. The next year, I swore at some bullies who were picking on me and tried to hit one of them with a chair; I got a similar punishment at school, but because I confessed the situation to my parents when I got home, I didn't receive a second punishment.
So my upbringing did a good job of banishing this mindset while I was very young.
it's nice to be liked so if that means caving to peer pressure then so be it
Yet another thing I can't agree with. I've always been the one to stick more with my own opinions, beliefs, or desires, even if they hurt my status in others' eyes (which, admittedly, was not a major deal in my younger years, I was the school nerd in a tiny town where you were an alien oddity if you didn't like sports, and really couldn't go lower on the social estimates of most of my peers).
if you've never been drunk or high then I guess you wouldn't know what you're missing and a lot of people aren't that into it when they first try it but get into it when the context becomes right, which would involve having more than one friend prolly.
I'll take your word for it. It's not an experience I'm interested in giving the opportunity.
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For me, I've seen a few friends go down that road and watched the results the morning after that I categorically never, ever want to go drinking or drug-using. Everyone looks hideous and in pain, makes decisions they regret forever, and don't seem to have as much fun as I do without whatever substance they were using. I've lost several aunts and uncles, and one set of grandparents to lung cancer: smoking sucks. I was vastly uninterested in catching diseases, or creating children in a context that I couldn't care for them (and I had a moral obligation to do so). (As a happily married monogamous man, now, those last two concerns no longer apply. :D)
To answer your question, it may be easier to ask forgiveness than permission, but it's a lot more painful to suffer the results that often enough come up before you have to ask. I've seen the results and watched people I love lose themselves to stuff they said they were in control of: they were not. I've known others who gained a permanent "reminder" of a few nights fun (despite any "protection" used) in the form of genital warts and herpes. I've watched the look of regret and heartbreak of those who've escaped children and disease only to break up.
All of those combined with a deep respect for my parents, family, and religious belief encouraged me to go, "Nope: I'm uninterested in bearing those kinds of regrets. Pass."
In exchange, my regrets are built out of frustration that I was lazy, didn't help that one guy that one time, or was a jerk. I lack most of the regrets or frustrations of my collegiate peers, and in general love most of what I did with my life. There really isn't any possibility of it someday coming back to haunt me (unlike with yet another college friend, who found out he was a father several years after the fact).
I'm proud of my decisions because those decisions kept me out of regrets. And I enjoyed my life without needing anything else to go with it.
"This stuff is awesome! If you don't try it, you can't know! It's like I'm flying!"
"Yes, but I'm the only one that will drive us home tonight, keep everyone else safe, and generally just make sure you don't wake up on the street or get arrested for doing something stupid while under the influence of a substance that has clearly altered your behavior for the worse. Also, I'll remember dancing with that cute girl later."
And I did. I was the only sober one in a group of twelve. Everyone else hated the next day, save for me, who'd had a good night, and a good following day.
I've prevented a potential date rape situation, made sure quite a few folk ended up not stranded, and have never woken up with a painful tattoo or disease or a newly minted father. I remember my parties, and thoroughly enjoyed myself (though not my various intoxicated* friends).
* Intoxicated and sober being used not just in terms of alcohol, but in general.
Regrets are kind of hard to think about in the heat of the moment. I knew enough people holding them that I wasn't interested in following suit.
Also: a guarantee of success is not something anyone can ever give you; but you can certainly improve your odds and general capability by giving yourself a more solid foundation. Do that latter thing. Unless your view is really skewed, you likely won't regret it.
EDIT: as for adventure: climbing mountains, scaring a herd of deer into running, going down the ledges of the Grand Canyon, exploring the streets of Hong Kong and Jerusalem, riding a river in the Philippines, driving across half the US by myself, and exploring the forests and cities of Lithuania all seemed pretty adventurous at the time, and awesome. Now I, more content to be laid back and a homebody - my wife gets worried when I climb trees or go walking on the streets at night, and I've got responsibilities with now two sons. But adventure is hat you make of it, and life without experimentation has never been boring except when I, myself, held the failure of not engaging my current circumstance with vigor. (Also, my more experimental friends always seemed to end up more bored more often than I, hence, "it's less boring" never really held water in their attempts to persuade... and, as stated previously, on this side of it, I'm the only one without regrets for that time period.)
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Not a lot of time, but I really like the "What's the difference between being a teen in your time (for me the early 1980's) and now?"
It's particularly good for me because:
(a) I have a teenage son, and
(b) We're in the same town I grew up in; in fact, he was in the same second grade classroom as I was in several decades ago! Deja vu!
OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES:
One of the HUGE things I've noticed is the lack of availability of places to go outside:
- When I was a kid, my father would bellow, "Go absorb some photons!" and we'd be thrown out of the house for the day. There was a park right across the street, and another one a few blocks away, and we'd grab some baseball gear or a ball and go play for a few hours. There were always other kids in the parks so you could get together a pick-up game with anywhere between 5 and 10 people on a team.
- These days EVERY park is dedicated to organized sports or dog runs. There isn't a single place to play a pick-up game of baseball within 5 miles of my house. If you try to play ball tag in the park, the parents of the toddlers glare at you and ask why you can't find somewhere "safer" to play. The park is no longer a place where teens are welcome. It's really sad.
INDOOR ACTIVITIES:
Similarly, there's an explosion of stuff to do indoors:
- Video games, Skype, MMORPGs, and so forth ensure that kids can socialize without having to leave their own homes. My teen spent almost the entire summer sitting around in his tighty whities playing on the computer. My only consolation was that he's hyperkinetic, so after an hour he'd throw on some clothes, run around the block a couple of times to get out some of his excess energy, come back in, and go back to the computer.
- Board games are too slow and organized for most kids. When they were younger I got them to play Risk, but things like Monopoly just don't hold their interest.
SOCIAL EXPECTATIONS:
-Bullying is no longer tolerated, thank goodness! In my time, even if you got attacked on your way home from school, the principal would just call in the other kids' parents, they would say, "Oh, our little dear would NEVER do that!" and that would be the end of it. Until the bully found you and beat the c**p out of you for tattling. These days parents are far more receptive to the possibility that their "angels" are really little <obscenities> and are willing to discipline them. At least in my area, gone are the days of, "Boys will be boys" and looking the other way at fights, harassment, hazing, and all those other "rites of passage".
- Drug and alcohol abuse is WAY down. I knew the campus drug dealers at every school, starting in 6th grade, even though to this day I've never done an illegal drug. My son's attitude is, "What kind of idiot would willingly alter their state of mind and risk their health?"
- Ditto smoking. It's been at least a decade since I've seen a teen smoking around here.
- Sex is WAAAAAY up, but kids are far more educated and safe about it. They know about STDs and AIDS, they know to use protection, and they're remarkably mature about it. I suspect high schoolers in my area are having safer sex than most adults in the rest of the country. Even when I was in high school, teenage pregnancy was virtually unheard-of; over 10 years of 3 brothers going through high school, I think there were 2 pregnancies total. There haven't been any in at least a decade.
Ah, well, time to get to work. Hope that provides at least a little insight as to the "different worlds".
EDIT: Just read TacticsLion's post, and I, too, was the "designated driver" for a bunch of reprobates, and was the one who never had a hangover. It is rewarding in and of itself to
(a) Keep your friends safe, no matter what stupidity they want to get themselves into, and
(b) Sit there smugly as they suffer their hangovers.
By the time I was 20, I had saved two lives and prevented at least two (and probably more) potential hospitalization-resulting fights. Not a bad track record...
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Go drug using? Lol its called smoking pot lol:)
i never gave in to peer pressure myself, which is why I guess I never went harder then liqour and weed (ok I ateate shrooms a couple times) good times, im lucky im still alive (some friends, not so much)
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In case anyone was wondering, I highly recommend debauchery.
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Very true on the middle ground. I've rarely seen it function that way, personally, however.
To me, it's a matter of seeing the results of being straight laced (my parents) and seeing the results of not (my extended family and later, in college, my friends) and knowing which of the two I'd prefer to be more like. It wasn't really much of a choice.
Also, I am strongly religious, and generally conservative, which probably helps a lot in my formation.
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In what seems to make me an oddity among oddities, I've never been the designated driver or rescue guy for a bunch of bingers. All the friends I've spent any appreciable time with were either as straightedge as I am or didn't drink, smoke, or whatever else in my presence, or did so fairly regularly. I had a roommate or two who would have a beer from time to time, but never outside the apartment; and one was a frequent smoker, but courteous enough to always go out on the porch to do so. The other roommates I've had didn't even do those. Neither my brother nor my sister-in-law smokes or drinks, thank goodness.
So not only do I not do these things myself, I tend to avoid people who do so, apparently. I've never had to deal with the fallout therefrom.
Also +1 to everything Tactics said.
College, man. It was the place I made the more... "experimental"?... friends and from whence I acquired most stories. Prior to that, it was extended family and respecting my parents enough to believe them. Worked out really well, for me!
EDIT: for clarity
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Very true on the middle ground. I've rarely seen it function that way, personally, however.
To me, it's a matter of seeing the results of being straight laced (my parents) and seeing the results of not (my extended family and later, in college, my friends) and knowing which of the two I'd prefer to be more like. It wasn't really much of a choice.
Also, I am strongly religious, and generally conservative, which probably helps a lot in my formation.
Interesting. As usual, I had a very different experience: Most kids indulged to excess a couple of times, and then very quickly found a "middle ground". There were a handful of "hopeless cases" who HAD to get drunk every week, or high every day, but the majority of my friends imbibed to excess less than once every couple of months, and even then always with me around to keep them out of trouble.
I was their "designated sanity check".
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Yeah I'm coming to learn that I had a fairly atypical, extremely tame college experience. Granted I was only in college for a grand total of about thirteen months, split over about three years, before I eventually dropped for good because I couldn't handle working and going to school at the same time and working paid rent.
But all my roommates were either classmates or friends/classmates of current/former roommates, so I consider the entire eight years and change I was out there with them as as close as I'll get to the experience. And none of us were super social and would rather spend our nights hanging out playing D&D, video games, telling stories or brainstorming/worldbuilding at IHOP or Denny's at Stupid O'Clock AM, or watching a movie than going to parties and getting drunk/high.
Fantasy was our drug of choice. Well, that and caffeine. I miss caffeine.
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Yeah, never here, save one or two guys who maybe might have one beer, or step out for a cigarette. The rest of us ranged between tea to soda to one guy who drank more Monster than probably was healthy.
I think one of the major differences is I've never seen an actual responsible drinker past a single can of beer or a single glass of wine. Granted I've never seen anyone get actually plastered, either. Probably ties into not going to parties. But the latter certainly gets more social exposure.
But outside of that small handful of college roommates, everyone else I've ever spent any appreciable amount of time with doesn't drink, smoke, or otherwise consume recreational intoxicants at all.
That and the mantra of "you can't get drunk if you never take the first drink" was yet another thing instilled into my mindset at a very young age.
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Go drug using? Lol its called smoking pot lol:)
Not if it wasn't pot.
The three at my small group who were attempting recovery never did anything resembling pot.
Point being, I've seen drug use of all stripes and, in my real-life experience, it has never ended well.
(To be honest, I'm groing increasingly skeptical of our society's apparent reliance upon cafeene as well, despite loving tea and soda myself. I'm not a fan of being reliant upon on any substance - it grants it power over you, and that's... not really cool.)
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Yeah, as much as I may grumble about not getting to have caffeine anymore (doctor's orders), it's been better for my health long-term to get off the soda.
Hawaiian Punch is cheaper, comes in containers that are both larger AND easier to carry than soda bottles or twelve-pack boxes, tastes just as good, and is (slightly) better for you, so that's what I get by on these days, along with decaf tea and hot chocolate when the weather's suitable. I used to buy some bottled flavored water they sold here, but all the stores within reasonable distances have trimmed down the available flavors significantly over the past year.
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I was lucky, my dad was a hippy high school teacher turned reluctant social worker, so I got the front row seat to heavy drug train wrecks, also I might've drank less in HS if i'd had a hangover sooner then 22:)
edit: also i get all my caffeine from coffee, i haven't drank a soda in years, except for Hard Root Beer but that hardly counts, since its mostly alcohol and i drink maybe 12 a year.
just water, milk, and coffee for me:)
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I guess the point is the alternatives aren't straightedge or debauchery. There's a whole world in the middle.
ding ding ding ding ding!!!
Story time!
we got our revenge tho, the next week we gave them shrooms and convinced them they were in Vietnam, last thing we saw of them they were running down the train tracks yelling "Where's Billy!" "Billy didn't make it!" "Game over man! game over" "wait where's charlie? CHARLIE!" meanwhile we went and saw Toy Story in the theater, spent $50 on toys and spent the rest of the night hiding in the closet waiting for the toys to come alive:)
they didn't talk to either of us for a week:) best night ever!, at the time
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I guess my whole problem with the whole "middle ground" thing is I fall too hard into the "if you never start then you never have to worry about getting over your head" camp. That sort of "preventative medicine" ethos is what I've been taught about pretty much everything all my life, and what I've always believed.
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I'm certain that I'm more incredulous than you are actually so it's not such a great example. seems as though you are even less adventurous than most folks! I guess if I had to answer the question 'why don't you want to excel at school or stay out of trouble' I would say that it was made pretty clear to me early on that academic success didn't guarantee success or happiness.
as for the trouble part, you know how it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission? I guess there was never a whole lot of fear. at least not enough to forget that it's way more fun to skip or stay out and get into something than it is bad to be punished. it's nice to be liked so if that means caving to peer pressure then so be it, people talk a big game about it. there's a point where you're like 'f!+% it, I haven't called home, might as well have some fun if they're already mad' too I guess
if you've never been drunk or high then I guess you wouldn't know what you're missing and a lot of people aren't that into it when they first try it but get into it when the context becomes right, which would involve having more than one friend prolly.
also I've never seen a goth kid irl. I think they stopped doing that
As someone who danced with the devil and all that, it is not that wonderful. My adopted brother traveled that path to the detriment of my father, a wheelchair bound man. He stole my fathers muscle relaxers and overdosed on them ending up in a coma for several days. Didn't learn a lesson from it and was imprisoned for several years.
When our father started to die from cancer, it was me that had to tell him. It was also me that told him he was not welcome around the family ever again. Any of us, ever. If he presented him self, he was told I would assume he was going to try to make good on his last threats to me and my family and I would respond accordingly. There will be no talk.
I would not hold the bad boy rebellious image as a good standard and yes, if my spawn ever had friends on his or my level, I would intervene at any cost.
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It is interesting to listen to the different standards expressed by parents as well as younger people. The differing values, accepted morality and growing up stories are awesome.
It helps ground me a little as my experience seems so very different on some levels but similar on others.
I also appreciate the civility that is showing.
Language from a few is a little off putting, if you are going to swear, please be more creative than the f word.
My mother was a sailor, if she can drop 15 minute tirade of how something sucks detailing everything from the dawn of time to present with out swearing, I'm sure others can as well.
I guess it's hard to culturally process a lot of viewpoints that emerge from such different backgrounds. all I know is that everybody has a reason for believing what they do and it's almost never 'because they're dumb'
@orthos: that's cool but please understand that not everybody who likes to unwind or becomes a cautionary tale or is actually secretly miserable. it's possible to enjoy a drink or smoke a little weed on the reg and be a functional human being. even a good parent.
@Game Master Scotty: that's a sad story but it's also kind of atypical. it's pretty tough being adopted as you probably know. I don't think the 'bad boy rebellious image' is what a lot of people see or go for, it's just what people do and a lot of people don't want to be left out
Yeah, weed, halucinagenics and to a lesser extent liqour are easy to outgrow or quit, its when you get harder or into the pills thats when things go south, so very far south
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Smoking is a rough one to escape as well. I had my first one when I was twelve.
I am thirty seven now.
@ Big Justin: Adopted or not, he had an example of how not to proceed and an adviser on why it was a very, very bad idea. He still made his choice.
It is horrifically difficult to watch my spawn start down the path I walked before.
I don't think she will do some of what I did, thank who ever, but so many things are an exact copy of me, it's like she read my play book.
I want my spawn to grow and evolve, but I do not want her to experience some of the stuff I did. It would be nice to spare her that, but spawn is bound and determined to be her own thing.
why do you refer to your daughter as 'spawn'?
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oh yeah smoking is bad, my grandma passed away from smoking for decades, i myself did for 4 years and learned i didn't have a very addictive personality when i walked away from it cold turkey no problems beside one weekend of physical withdrawal, it was also never a problem to stop drinking and i was never the guy that got black out drunk when and if i did.
the best trait that helped me honestly tho is i respond very negatively to peer pressure, it actually had the opposite effect on me, and i see that trait in my kids too, so theres hope, also there is way more credible information out there these days for them.
i had a cousin that died from Heroin, after robbing the entire family stupid, so i also feel your pain there scotty.
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Alias is a fish, fish make offspring by spawning.
I guess, I could call her fry, fingerling, offspring, etc.
I like spawn:)
I am not sure my daughter will like being scanned or using an old American author for guidance/inspiration.
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It's very interesting... in spite of many of my arguments in other threads, I consider myself a "liberal Libertarian": If it doesn't hurt anyone (yourself included), then it shouldn't be illegal.
(I deviate far, far, FAR away from true Libertarianism in that I believe that there are certain services that are essential to human survival that MUST be provided for by government, while true Libertarians feel that the only good government is a dead government.)
So I'm an advocate of, "Legalize all drugs, tax 'em at 10%, and use the income to pay for all the treatment programs for the poor schmucks who get addicted (or worse)."
However, a good friend of mine tried pretty much every drug that existed in the 1980's and early 1990's, and his educated opinion is, "Oh, Gods no! There's stuff out there that HAS to remain illegal. You just don't know how bad it is because you've never tried it."
Gotta respect a voice of authority, there...
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I read this article in the Atlantic this morning and thanked the powers that be that I did not grow up in the age of the cell phone.
Cell phones have become almost like a limb for teenagers. There appears to be an odd detachment from what is happening around them. This behavior is not limited to teens but seems out of control with the younger demographic.
-MD
i'm all for legalizing somethings, however if you do some stuff like crack and meth and heroin for long periods, you don't come back from that, it may be the body is operational and maybe even slightly functional but the same person you knew before is gone:(
edit: and don't get me started on prescription meds, i landscaped a "pain management" clinic, and it so sad to watch these people walk in with their loved ones as people laughing and what not, then come back out a half hour later as zombies being guided to the car, often drooling, it was sad, almost as sad as landscaping a nursing home:(