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Recalls discussion today and yesterday with teenager.
Begins pounding head into wall.
Carry on..
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Speaking as someone who was a teenager when they first started loitering around these forums, and who is now pushing 30, they grow out of it. Stupid things will be done and said, but they grow out of it.
I believe most of us do a similar thing.
For me, the question is, when?
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I'm sure the teen feels the same way.
And they don't all grow out of it. Look at fox news.
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I'm sure the teen feels the same way.
And they don't all grow out of it. Look at fox news.
And CNN and MSNBC and broadcast channel nightly news and CBN and the New York Times and the Washington Post and the Huffington Post and Breitbart...
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My father's favorite-ever quote from me as a teen:
"Why don't you just LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!...
...
...
...except to feed me...
...and give me money!"
Yeah, I was a charmer!
The real problem with teens is that they just don't know what's really funny.
The real problem with teens is that they just don't know what's really funny.
Oh, yeah. My father nearly fell down the stairs laughing after I got that one off.
The biggest issues I contently have are the absolute secrecy...about anything and everything.
Example:
Spawn: I'm going to the school play.
Me:Great, who are you going with?
Spawn: A friend.
Me: Which one?
Spawn: From school?
Me: Which on from school?
Spawn: Drama class.
Me: What is the name of the person from your drama class that you are going to the play with?
Spawn: Why didn't you ask that to start?
I have to play twenty questions to get absolutely any anything out of my spawn.
The biggest issues I contently have are the absolute secrecy...about anything and everything.
Example:
Spawn: I'm going to the school play.
Me:Great, who are you going with?
Spawn: A friend.
Me: Which one?
Spawn: From school?
Me: Which on from school?
Spawn: Drama class.
Me: What is the name of the person from your drama class that you are going to the play with?
Spawn: Why didn't you ask that to start?I have to play twenty questions to get absolutely any anything out of my spawn.
Well that's just SOP. Mine do the same thing every time.
If I could travel back in time I'd go back to 1990 and punch my teenage self right in the mouth hole.
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Just remember: If you are playing a human in Pathfinder, the odds are that you are playing a teenager.
My father's favorite-ever quote from me as a teen:
"Why don't you just LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!...
...
...
...except to feed me...
...and give me money!"Yeah, I was a charmer!
My Dad (droll as ever) would reply to such rantings with:
"No no, you're okay...the world is wrong...(/sarc)"
I pull that gem out regularly nowadays
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I have to play twenty questions to get absolutely any anything out of my spawn.
It's often the same with Mrs. Gersen, except she's a full adult. She's just Southern -- they take a direct question as some kind of attack on them, and get all defensive-like. To get any actual information, you have to hem and haw around the question for a good 20 minutes and hope that they eventually let slip what you wanted to know. It's frustrating, but not restricted to teenagers.
Me: "Where do you want to eat?"
Her (stiffening angrily at the direct question): "I don't know, where do you want to go?"
Me: "Uh, how about Vietnamese?"
Her (curtly): "We had that yesterday."
Me: "Thai? You seem to like that."
Her: "I don't feel like it."
Me: "Burgers?"
Her: "Too meaty."
Me: "Okay, do you have any suggestions?"
Her: "Maybe something with more vegetables."
Me: "French?"
Her: "No."
Me: "Are you trying to tell me you want to eat at that horrible vegan place again?"
Her: "Maybe."
Me: "Maybe meaning yes, or maybe meaning maybe?"
Her: "Let's just go there, okay?!"
Me: "Okay -- but why not just tell me that in the first place?"
Her: "I didn't like the way you asked."
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So I guess that means I'm not 45, just 15 years old with a x3 multiplier bonus..
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So I guess that means I'm not 45, just 15 years old with a x3 multiplier bonus..
Makes sense... that puts me at 94 with a 0.5 multiplier...
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.....*hides in den behind treasure hoard due to being a teenager and not wanting to die from teen hatred arrows*
|
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I'm 36, well 37 come December, I always wondered why my parents forgot what it was like to be a teenager. Now my wife is pregnant with our first child. I will be 50ish when she becomes a teen. I just hope I don't forget by then what it was like. We all did things to our parents that had them head poundung walls. Why should we expect less from our spawn.
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I have to play twenty questions to get absolutely any anything out of my spawn.It's often the same with Mrs. Gersen, except she's a full adult. She's just Southern -- they take a direct question as some kind of attack on them, and get all defensive-like. To get any actual information, you have to hem and haw around the question for a good 20 minutes and hope that they eventually let slip what you wanted to know. It's frustrating, but not restricted to teenagers.
** spoiler omitted **
That's not necessarily a southern thing either, Kirth. With me and my wife, we've had about that exact same conversation dozens of times, and she's the northerner, and I'm the southerner.
That's not necessarily a southern thing either, Kirth. With me and my wife, we've had about that exact same conversation dozens of times, and she's the northerner, and I'm the southerner.I have to play twenty questions to get absolutely any anything out of my spawn.It's often the same with Mrs. Gersen, except she's a full adult. She's just Southern -- they take a direct question as some kind of attack on them, and get all defensive-like. To get any actual information, you have to hem and haw around the question for a good 20 minutes and hope that they eventually let slip what you wanted to know. It's frustrating, but not restricted to teenagers.
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah seconded. I've been no further north than Tennessee my entire life for any time longer than a week, and don't encounter this kind of thing all that often. It comes from either recalcitrant kids or people who are just indecisive (which, admittedly, I've been both at one time or another >_>).
spawn.
Come on. You were a teenager once. The point of talking to an adult is not to give them information. The point of talking to them is to avoid being yelled at, which adults seem to think its acceptable to do to kids on a near constant basis and starts to grate after a while.
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The biggest issues I contently have are the absolute secrecy...about anything and everything.
Example:
Spawn: I'm going to the school play.
Me:Great, who are you going with?
Spawn: A friend.
Me: Which one?
Spawn: From school?
Me: Which on from school?
Spawn: Drama class.
Me: What is the name of the person from your drama class that you are going to the play with?
Spawn: Why didn't you ask that to start?I have to play twenty questions to get absolutely any anything out of my spawn.
As someone who was a teenager just a short 12 years ago, let me see if I can help explain the issue here.
You ask "who are you going with?" When what you really want to know is either (1) what other phone number besides yours can I blow up if you don't return at the prearranged time?, or (2) are you going with that other kid I don't like?
So, Spawn knows this from experience and is therefore reluctant to give out any information which could be used in those ways. Or possibly doesn't want to answer potentially embarrassing follow up questions (even if you wouldn't ask them.)
Spawn gives you a name you do not recognize and has to spend 30 minutes giving you background on this person, double that if the person is of the opposite sex (or sexually compatible gender as the case may be.)
Lastly, Spawn finds your question (benign as it is) invasive. Spawn wants to have some personal freedoms and part of that means not telling Spawn's parents all the details of Spawn's plans and leaving Spawn's self open to scrutiny. If Spawn tells you on Monday that Spawn plans to go study for a test with A,B, and C on Thursday but Spawn does a review in class and the studying isn't required and now Spawn wants to take the time to go to the mall then Spawn has to explain (1) no, I won't be studying, (2) because I don't feel like I need to, (3) yes I'm sure, (4) yes I'm really going to the mall even though I have a test tomorrow, (5)I'm going with D, E, and F, (6) because A,B, and C are studying, (7) because they are stupider than me? I don't know? (8) Because E has a car, (9) D, E, and F aren't even in that class!, (10) no, I don't think that the 96 I got would have been better if I studied that night instead of going to the mall.
Spawn knows that will happen, so you get NO information. It saves Spawn accountability, embarrassment, and hassle. And it has the added benefit of being super passive-aggressive which Spawn know annoys the crap out of you. Spawn does it to get you to stop asking questions all together.
So my suggestion would be, if you want another phone number to call in case Spawn is late then have a standing rule, "I need the phone number of at least one other person you are with and I expect you to answer if I call. I will not call you unless it is extremely important or if you are more than 20 minutes late getting home. I won't call the other number unless you don't answer." Then when Spawn says "I'm going to the school play" you can just say, "I need another phone number." And it's that easy. 9/10 you'll get a name because Spawn is a teenager and has not had to memorize a phone number is Spawn's life. The big deal here is to earn Spawn's trust by actually not calling unless it is super important. Also, keep in mind that it has to be super important to Spawn, not just to you.
If the information you really wanted anyway was "are you hanging out with that kid I don't like?" I'll save you some aggravation now. Yes. Spawn is hanging out with that kid. You can't stop it. Don't try.
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I can say with honesty that I never went through that phase as teenager. Even if I was inclined to do it my Mother would have had None of it, but even as a teenager I found those attitudes annoying as all get out.
Especially the ones who think they can say whatever they want and that it has no effect or consequence because "Hey man I didn't mean it" and "Free Speech!"
I know they're learning but it never seems like they actually do and then I see adults whose maturity doesn't match the projected growth that they should be at.
since she was two my daughter's answer to everything i deemed to "adult" for her was "Dad! I'm almost a Teenager!. since she was two! now that she's almost 11 it carries a bit more weight and a lot more fear:\
also getting answers from her is like listening to Rod Stewart, sure it can be done, theoretically, but its going to take forever, hurt a lot more then you thought, won't make a lick of sense and inevitably just isn't worth it for what you get out of it:)
and i love her:)
the funniest part is when she says or does things i did at that age, and i think "why did i think i'd get away with that?"
so yes Teenagers are stupid but they get smarter, hopefully:)
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I guess by growing up in a good home with parents I respected made me miss out on all the real fun...
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I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that all the people who have complaints here didn't/don't have good homes or have/had no respect for their parents, but your wording seems to suggest otherwise. Might want to work on that.
I guess by growing up in a good home with parents I respected made me miss out on all the real fun...
More likely that your teenage years were spent in a basement playing d&d and not having the youth experience of 95%+ of American kids. And/or you made your parents believe that's what you were doing when you snuck out the basement window to go raveing. And/or your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything.
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I guess by growing up in a good home with parents I respected made me miss out on all the real fun...More likely that your teenage years were spent in a basement playing d&d and not having the youth experience of 95%+ of American kids.
This was me... my idea of a fun night was sitting in my room playing Game Boy/playing games on my laptop/reading a book. I had no interest in "going out", I didn't have a job or a car and desired neither, and I didn't have enough friends to "go out" with, much less be out late enough that my parents felt the need to establish a curfew.
We still had our share of these sorts of headbuttings, and even more so with my two younger siblings, who were both more socially adept and socially integrated than I was. I'm certain you did too, Simon, you've likely just forgotten them.
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I think it absolutely depends on your relationship with your parents. My father had three "absolute" rules:
(1) Where are you going?
(2) Who are you going with?
(3) When do you expect to be home?
And he never drilled down. If I answered those three questions, he let me go without any argument.
It's exactly the same information I expect from my wife, or she expects from me, or I expect from a co-worker (except replace "home" with "back at work"), so I never understood the resistance to it.
And guess what? If you're willing to answer those three questions, cops leave you alone, too!
But yesterday I got another harsh dose of "teenage reality". My son did 6 hours of volunteer time at a haunted house. He came out gushing about how fun it had been. He'd made a friend; another male teenager perhaps 14 or 15.
And that teenager spoke not one word to me the entire time. He just glared at me like I was a particularly odious blob of fungus between his toes. When my son spoke to him, he responded cheerfully enough, but then he resumed The Glare.
I didn't talk to him, or ask him anything. I knew it would be pointless to attempt to interact. So I just drove my son home.
Some teenagers just have a need to prove that they don't need to tell you anything.
I pity them. It makes their lives SO much more difficult.
(I never spent more than 5 minutes in the presence of officers, even when they had their guns pointed at me. Being truthful and willing to answer questions is amazingly effective in getting adults off your case.)
I have to admit, threads like this make me immensely glad I do not nor will not have children.
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I have to admit, threads like this make me immensely glad I do not nor will not have children.
LOL. Parenting is amazingly easy if your attitude is, "There is a new person in my house. I need to protect them, feed them, care for them, and get to know them."
It is amazingly hard if your attitude is, "This is my progeny. I need to forge him/her into someone who will be successful, who will succeed where I failed, and who will never spend a day working at McDonald's or delivering pizzas."
My kids lie around playing video games all day. They're mediocre (or worse) in school. But WHEN they find something they like, I support them in it.
It's hilarious how many other adults say, "OMG! Your kids are SO mature! And they get along with everyone, and are SO responsible! What's your secret?"
I'm just waiting for the poor girl down the street to explode. Her mom shames dragon moms. Nothing but straight A's. All social interactions monitored for "is this friend good enough to associate with you"? Every minute of every day meticulously planned to get her into the best college.
Yeah, she's gonna be a nut job by 18 for sure.
EDIT: There's a great quote I'll mangle horrifically, but it was something along the lines of:
"If I make a million mistakes, I will learn and I will become a genius. If I never make a single mistake, I will have learned nothing."
Too many parents are too determined on preventing their kids from making mistakes. If it's non-fatal, it's educational.
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Oh that poor kid. College is going to be a heck of a culture shock.
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I guess by growing up in a good home with parents I respected made me miss out on all the real fun...More likely that your teenage years were spent in a basement playing d&d and not having the youth experience of 95%+ of American kids. And/or you made your parents believe that's what you were doing when you snuck out the basement window to go raveing. And/or your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything.
I spent about 80% of my time outside hanging with my friends shooting each other with BB guns, throwing rocks, blowing up frogs, kid stuff. The other 20% was spent indoors getting along with my parents. And when I went to my girlfriend's house on the weekend I told my parents where I was going. You really should try to cut back on the projection.
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Yes, I'm sure you were the perfect child, never got in trouble, never had a fight. Uh huh. Sure.
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I spent about 80% of my time outside hanging with my friends shooting each other with BB guns, throwing rocks, blowing up frogs, kid stuff. The other 20% was spent indoors getting along with my parents. And when I went to my girlfriend's house on the weekend I told my parents where I was going. You really should try to cut back on the projection.
Well, it's hard to project when I gave three possibilities which are radically different to the point of being exclusive of one-another. But since you feel the need to be defensive, I'll spell it out again.
I specifically included the scenario you described in my post, see here it is:
And/or your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything.
Given your own description of 80% of your time + weekends, I would say I am pretty close on that one.
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Yes, I'm sure you were the perfect child, never got in trouble, never had a fight. Uh huh. Sure.
Hardly, I got in trouble a lot. That didn't stop my parents from being awesome though.
Both of my kids are teenagers now. When they don't answer my questions directly I know it's because of sheer, unadulterated apathy. Not because they have anything to hide.
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I spent about 80% of my time outside hanging with my friends shooting each other with BB guns, throwing rocks, blowing up frogs, kid stuff. The other 20% was spent indoors getting along with my parents. And when I went to my girlfriend's house on the weekend I told my parents where I was going. You really should try to cut back on the projection.Well, it's hard to project when I gave three possibilities which are radically different to the point of being exclusive of one-another. But since you feel the need to be defensive, I'll spell it out again.
I specifically included the scenario you described in my post, see here it is:
And/or your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything.Given your own description of 80% of your time + weekends, I would say I am pretty close on that one.
My issue with posts like this (and your previous one) is that it assumes that ALL parent-teen relationships MUST be confrontational.
Believe it or not, there are parents out there who trust their teens' judgement, and allow them to run amok as long as everyone's on the same page.
Missing from your "holy trinity" of teen behavior is, "The parents know the teens are going out raving, and care, but trust their children enough that they know they'll get a call if anything goes amiss."
My parents definitely fell into that category. "If you get drunk and can't drive home, call us at any time and we'll pick you up. No questions asked. No punishments or lectures afterwards. If you get a girl pregnant, we'll finance the 'resolution'. No questions asked. No lectures. If we have to bail you out of jail, that's coming out of YOUR money. But we will bail you out. Keep yourself safe, let us know when you think you'll be home, and we're good."
It happens. It's not all that rare. It's just not something people talk about because it's boring.
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Yeah that's... really not something I've ever seen. I mean, I understand it exists and it happens, but it's such an alien mindset to me that I just can't really compute.
It probably has a lot to do with just being that much different from everyone I've ever known, as well as just being something that I'd personally disagree with as a course of action. I know that there are parents that would let their kids do that kind of thing and then take them home and no lectures, no punishment, no nothing. But I've never met them, and it boggles my mind that there are parent who would let their kids get away with stuff like that without some kind of reaction.
Yeah that's... really not something I've ever seen. I mean, I understand it exists and it happens, but it's such an alien mindset to me that I just can't really compute.
It probably has a lot to do with just being that much different from everyone I've ever known, as well as just being something that I'd personally disagree with as a course of action. I know that there are parents that would let their kids do that kind of thing and then take them home and no lectures, no punishment, no nothing. But I've never met them, and it boggles my mind that there are parent who would let their kids get away with stuff like that without some kind of reaction.
I think it's more that you're "normal" and we're "weird".
In all my time with all my friends, I've known a grand total of 3 families whose parents took this approach, and we were one of them.
And guess what? All the kids turned out just fine...
The (far too many) deaths among my teenage (well, 15-24 year-old) friends were always, always, ALWAYS in families with ultra-disciplinarian parents.
The more you repress them, the more they rebel...
I spent about 80% of my time outside hanging with my friends shooting each other with BB guns, throwing rocks, blowing up frogs, kid stuff. The other 20% was spent indoors getting along with my parents. And when I went to my girlfriend's house on the weekend I told my parents where I was going. You really should try to cut back on the projection.Well, it's hard to project when I gave three possibilities which are radically different to the point of being exclusive of one-another. But since you feel the need to be defensive, I'll spell it out again.
I specifically included the scenario you described in my post, see here it is:
And/or your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything.Given your own description of 80% of your time + weekends, I would say I am pretty close on that one.My issue with posts like this (and your previous one) is that it assumes that ALL parent-teen relationships MUST be confrontational.
Believe it or not, there are parents out there who trust their teens' judgement, and allow them to run amok as long as everyone's on the same page.
Missing from your "holy trinity" of teen behavior is, "The parents know the teens are going out raving, and care, but trust their children enough that they know they'll get a call if anything goes amiss."
My parents definitely fell into that category. "If you get drunk and can't drive home, call us at any time and we'll pick you up. No questions asked. No punishments or lectures afterwards. If you get a girl pregnant, we'll finance the 'resolution'. No questions asked. No lectures. If we have to bail you out of jail, that's coming out of YOUR money. But we will bail you out. Keep yourself safe, let us know when you think you'll be home, and we're good."
It happens. It's not all that rare. It's just not something people talk about because it's boring.
I accounted for that possibility with the 5%- that was not expressed. I'm sure there are all kinds of atypical relationships that fit into that 5%. There are probably parents who do drugs with their kids, or send their kids out to score stuff for them. I didn't list that either. Because it isn't likely.
To be clear; if you are shooting other kids with guns, exploding animals, and spending weekend nights with your girlfriend before you turn 18, then "your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything," is dead on accurate. You can have a problem with it all you want, that doesn't mean I'm not right.
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Yeah that's... really not something I've ever seen. I mean, I understand it exists and it happens, but it's such an alien mindset to me that I just can't really compute.
It probably has a lot to do with just being that much different from everyone I've ever known, as well as just being something that I'd personally disagree with as a course of action. I know that there are parents that would let their kids do that kind of thing and then take them home and no lectures, no punishment, no nothing. But I've never met them, and it boggles my mind that there are parent who would let their kids get away with stuff like that without some kind of reaction.
I think it's more that you're "normal" and we're "weird".
In all my time with all my friends, I've known a grand total of 3 families whose parents took this approach, and we were one of them.
And guess what? All the kids turned out just fine...
The (far too many) deaths among my teenage (well, 15-24 year-old) friends were always, always, ALWAYS in families with ultra-disciplinarian parents.
The more you repress them, the more they rebel...
I'm honestly not sure how to respond to that.
I always figured my family was more toward the disciplinarian end. I can certainly think of a fair number of kids my age and within a relatively-close age bracket who had parents that were far less strict, and only a small number of those who were more so.
At the same time, I've also never encountered a family that was SO restrictive as to handle situations like the girl you mentioned in your prior post.
And what teenage rebellion went on in my family... well, my sister's was fairly bad by our standards*, though it thankfully did not end in drugs, pregnancy, injury, or otherwise, and she's back home now, but she was the worst of us. My brother just threw temper tantrums and mine was mostly apathy.
So I'm not really certain anymore where my folks fall on the scale.
*=Whereas I have gotten the feeling that what she did wouldn't even be a blip on the radar for some people here. All she did was move in with her boyfriend for about a year and a half and stopped going to church. Hence another thing that makes it difficult to judge.
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I accounted for that possibility with the 5%- that was not expressed. I'm sure there are all kinds of atypical relationships that fit into that 5%. There are probably parents who do drugs with their kids, or send their kids out to score stuff for them. I didn't list that either. Because it isn't likely.
To be clear; if you are shooting other kids with guns, exploding animals, and spending weekend nights with your girlfriend before you turn 18, then "your parents didn't care if you got into trouble so they never bothered to grill you about anything," is dead on accurate. You can have a problem with it all you want, that doesn't mean I'm not right.
I know I'm going to regret this, but one more try...
So, the parents who recognize that over 95% of U.S. teens explore alcohol, a nearly-as-high percentage explore sex, and who have the fundamental wisdom to recognize that they are extremely unlikely to be so unique as to stop it in their kids, don't care?
My parents educated us. They let us sample alcohol, and told us what amounts were reasonable and what amounts were dangerous. They talked to us about teen pregnancy. They went over the consequences, both legal and lifelong, of actions we might choose. They spent many hours with us from our pre-teens throughout our teenage years teaching us that every action has consequences, both intended and unintended. They made sure we understood when we were just out on a lark (shooting soda cans with pellet guns in the local park) and when we could be getting ourselves into real trouble (driving drunk or getting girls pregnant).
And once they were convinced that we knew what we might be getting ourselves into, they made sure we knew that more than anything else, they wanted us safe and sound. And so "home" was a safe haven. Always.
But obviously they didn't care...
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But obviously they didn't care...
Forgive me, NobodysHome for interrupting, but earlier you wrote:
"(1) Where are you going?
(2) Who are you going with?
(3) When do you expect to be home?
And he never drilled down. If I answered those three questions, he let me go without any argument."
I could be wrong, but I think that qualifies as "grilling" if I am reading the earlier posts correctly.
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over 95% of U.S. teens explore alcohol, a nearly-as-high percentage explore sex
Woo~! *proud 5%er*