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I was recently informed that combat reflexes would not allow me to attack an archer multiple times when they take a full round action to shoot me multiple times point blank because all of the archers attacks that round are "a single attack action".
Now that I'm playing around with a swashbuckler, I was wondering if that same rule applies for the opportune parry deed. Do I only get to parry once against a full round attack? Can I choose to take the first hit in the face and then try to parry that enemy's -5 bab attack?
By the common understanding of the rules, you were informed wrong. it's the act of making a ranged attack that provokes, not the action used. see the scorching ray attack of opportunity ruling for an example. so your swashbuckler should be fine.
i was going to find you a rulebook quote, but the rulebook borked it up and apparently nobody ever noticed: by the rules as written, a ranged full attack doesn't even provoke, only the attack (standard) action does.
Take Combat Reflexes, And certainly try to parry the first attack, it's the most likely to hit if you're talking iteratives.
Or you combine Opportune Parry and Riposte with dodging panache on the first attack. That way the iterative attacks can't hit any more because you're not there anymore.
The deed just states that it doesn't negate the attack triggering it, not about iterative attacks.
Edit: Only works if the opponent doesn't have a 5ft step left. Like when you stepped away from him at the end of your turn.
Or you combine Opportune Parry and Riposte with dodging panache on the first attack. That way the iterative attacks can't hit any more because you're not there anymore.
The deed just states that it doesn't negate the attack triggering it, not about iterative attacks.Edit: Only works if the opponent doesn't have a 5ft step left. Like when you stepped away from him at the end of your turn.
Nice combo!
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By the common understanding of the rules, you were informed wrong. it's the act of making a ranged attack that provokes, not the action used. see the scorching ray attack of opportunity ruling for an example. so your swashbuckler should be fine.
i was going to find you a rulebook quote, but the rulebook borked it up and apparently nobody ever noticed: by the rules as written, a ranged full attack doesn't even provoke, only the attack (standard) action does.
I was just told by some judges that the full round attack for a bow counts as one provoke, like how moving through multiple threatened squares of one target only provokes once because the whole movement is considered one "action". Because multiple attacks can do various things, such as trip, disarm, attack, I would have thought they each counted but I'm told I'm wrong.
The reason I ask about the parry thing is it sounds like if I activate parry during their iterative attacks, it's my full bab and not their's so it seems like I would have a good chance of parry and reposting. I didn't know if the whole full attack is one action thing might make that illegal. It sounds like not everyone is even on board with that ruling but I'm told that's what the judges said at one Gen Con.
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By the common understanding of the rules, you were informed wrong. it's the act of making a ranged attack that provokes, not the action used. see the scorching ray attack of opportunity ruling for an example. so your swashbuckler should be fine.
i was going to find you a rulebook quote, but the rulebook borked it up and apparently nobody ever noticed: by the rules as written, a ranged full attack doesn't even provoke, only the attack (standard) action does.
I was just told by some judges that the full round attack for a bow counts as one provoke, like how moving through multiple threatened squares of one target only provokes once because the whole movement is considered one "action". Because multiple attacks can do various things, such as trip, disarm, attack, I would have thought they each counted but I'm told I'm wrong.
The reason I ask about the parry thing is it sounds like if I activate parry during their iterative attacks, it's my full bab and not their's so it seems like I would have a good chance of parry and reposting. I didn't know if the whole full attack is one action thing might make that illegal. It sounds like not everyone is even on board with that ruling but I'm told that's what the judges said at one Gen Con.
These so-called "judges" are wrong. Firing a ranged weapon provokes every time. (without having an ability/feat/whatever that negates it provoking) Firing four times in one round provokes four times.
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Your judges need to meet my friend Mr. Chart. He tells us that just as we provoke multiple attacks of opportunity for taking multiple move actions to move past the same opponent, we provoke multiple attacks of opportunity for making multiple attacks which provoke (whether these are combat maneuvers, unarmed attacks, or ranged attacks).
Taking your standard and your move action to double move is still one continuous movement that only provokes once (though it'll provoke once for each opponent that you move around).
Movement in Combat: Generally, you can move your speed in a round and still do something (take a move action and a standard action).
If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move double your speed.
(so it's still one movement)
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Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach.
No mention of an attack action at all. You can do a Opportune Parry and Riposte even as reaction to a AoO.
Each melee attack is a valid reason for a parry.- * -
Multiple AoO against archers using a full attack action:
Ranged Touch Attack Spells and AOOs: When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events.
(Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.This answer originally appeared in the 9/11/12 Paizo blog.
This FAQ clearly say each ranged attack provoke an AoO.
posted March 2013
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Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach.No mention of an attack action at all. You can do a Opportune Parry and Riposte even as reaction to a AoO.
Each melee attack is a valid reason for a parry.
That's what I was hoping for. I'll go with that until someone else gets some judges on me again :P
Multiple AoO against archers using a full attack action:
Ranged Touch Attack Spells and AOOs: When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events.
(Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.This answer originally appeared in the 9/11/12 Paizo blog.
This FAQ clearly say each ranged attack provoke an AoO.
posted March 2013
While I don't really want to defend a ruling that I disagreed with in the first place, I think that the faqs you posted was about two different things provoking rather than multiple attacks. First the casting of a spell which provokes, and the range attack which provokes for another reason. The argument made against me at this convention was that a full round attack is all bunched up into one attack action.
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
I think the way that is being translated is that a full round of attacks is considered "one opportunity".
While I don't really want to defend a ruling that I disagreed with in the first place, I think that the faqs you posted was about two different things provoking rather than multiple attacks. First the casting of a spell which provokes, and the range attack which provokes for another reason. The argument made against me at this convention was that a full round attack is all bunched up into one attack action.
The important bit of that FAQ to this situation is that it's calling out Scorching Ray as a specific exception to the general rule of provoking once for each ranged attack. The general rule is the bit you're interested in.
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Ah yeah I guess that makes sense that they wouldn't call it out as an exception if multiple range attacks didn't usually provoke multiple AoOs. If it comes up again I'll bring up that faqs. Doubt I'll change minds with it though :(
Edit: By the way while one guy called them "judges" I'm not sure if that's tongue in cheek. I'm not sure how much authority they have but they both are very active in PFS and run a lot of games. I respect their opinions even if I'm not sure if this ruling is correct.
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By the common understanding of the rules, you were informed wrong. it's the act of making a ranged attack that provokes, not the action used. see the scorching ray attack of opportunity ruling for an example. so your swashbuckler should be fine.
i was going to find you a rulebook quote, but the rulebook borked it up and apparently nobody ever noticed: by the rules as written, a ranged full attack doesn't even provoke, only the attack (standard) action does.
You are absolutely right. My page 183 has standard attacks: Attack (melee) no, Attack (range) yes. But under full0Round Action is has Full attack: no. It doesn't specify melee or range like the standard actions do. As far as I can tell, this would suggest that a full round action with ranged weapons provoke no opportunities. I'm now even more confused.
If you make a full attack comprised entirely of trip attempts and you didn't have improved trip, would each of those trip attempts provoke an attack of opportunity?
Yes. And it's the same for making a full attack with a ranged weapon. That the developers thought this was relatively obvious without having to spell it out doesn't change it. If someone threatens you and you don't have an ability altering the standard course of things, you provoke for each and every ranged attack you make (so all of your iteratives plus extra attacks from Haste or Rapid Shot) every round, not just those you make with an attack action (and not just once for a full attack action with a ranged weapon).