
Jannie Doe |
Hey :),
Me and my group are playing a campaign in which all members are rogues. I'm trying to specialize on a more sneak attach, acrobatic-y, in the shadows type build. Or at least something to supplement the two 'front attack' more tank oriented builds, as well as the 'face' of the group.
I've never played a rogue before, though I'm really excited about all the skill combinations and ways I can do this.
Ok, as far background and restrictions.... We're all starting at lvl 5, and using primarily Pathfinder, although we can borrow from 3.5 and other sources if we're not taking anything drastic from them. We start with 10500 gold. Oh, and our main stat arrays can be chosen from here:
STATS: Choose between the following arrays
18, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8
16, 16, 14, 14, 10, 8
16, 14, 14, 12, 12, 10
14, 14, 14, 12, 12, 12
I'm not even really sure where is a good place to start. Any advice would be very appreciated. What would be a good race? Weapon(s)? Skill and feat tree?
Right now I'm thinking that duel wielding might be the way to go, along with obviously stealth. In addition acrobatics and slight of hand. From there, just some ideas: climb, disguise, escape artist, survival, perception, swim, and use magical device. Other obvious things, bluff and sense motive, I believe are taken care of by another party member more specialized in that area... though I should probably have some skill points left over, lol.
What are some good feats that synergize well here? I want to finely tune this rogue as well as I can, and take advantage of any combos I can find. What about equipment suggestions?
I really appreciate anyone who took the time to read this!! I'm pretty new to DnD, and this is my first rogue. Thanks again :)

Tangaroa |
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I might take avoid the two-weapon fighting and focus on the stealth.
*Take the well balanced array (10,16,12,14,12,14)
*be human, but take the alternate racial trait "focused study" - gives you skill focus stealth, and more skill foci at higher levels
*take the rogue talents fast stealth and finesse rogue
*work towards the shadowdancer prestige class (require dodge, mobility and combat reflexes). You can pick it up by 6th level.
*work towards the feat Hellcat Stealth You could get it by 7th level.
So in two levels, you'll be able to sneak around in plain view in both broad daylight and shadows/darness - no magic required, impervious to even see invisible and the like.
Plus, shadowdancers get some fun abilities as they level, and a fun (if weak) shadow companion. Instant flanking buddy though :)
At higher levels, pick up the feat shadow strike
Here is a sample build: Dala, from the shadow country of Nidal. Totally focused on stealth, but a few knowledge and other skills.
(she uses a buckler even though she is nonproficient - there are no penalties due to its armor check penalty of 0 when masterwork or magical)
Dala of Nidal
Female Human (Varisian) rogue 5
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4, Senses Perception +9 (+2 vsersus traps)
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DEFENSE
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AC 22, touch 15, flat-footed 22 (+5 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge, +2 shield); +1 vs. traps
hp 38 ((5d8)+10)
Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +2; +1 Reflex to avoid traps
Defensive Abilities evasion, uncanny dodge
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OFFENSE
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 rapier +8 (1d6+1/18-20)
Ranged dagger +7 (1d4/19-20)
Special Attacks Sneak Attack 3d6
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STATISTICS
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Str 10, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 18
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +12, Climb +8, Disable Device +14 (+2 versus traps), Disguise +8, Escape Artist +12, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (History) +4, Knowledge (Local) +7, Knowledge (Planes) +8, Perception +9, Perform (Dance) +7, Sleight of Hand +10, Stealth +20, Survival +9, Swim +6, Use Magic Device +9
Traits Poverty-Stricken, Scholar of the Great Beyond (Knowledge (Planes))
Languages Aklo, Common, Shadowtongue, Varisian
SQ fast stealth, focused study, trapfinding, trap sense +1
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (2), potion of protection from evil, daggers (5)
Other Gear rapier +1, mithral shirt +1, cloak of elvenkind, buckler +1, belt pouch, ioun torch, handy haversack, 50' rope, soap, Mwk. thieves' tools, waterskin, caltrops, chalk (10 piece), flint and steel, grappling hook, mess kit, small mirror, piton (10), iron pot, bedroll, 5 days rations, backpack torch (10), 45.0 gp
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Evasion (Ex) You can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks.
Fast Stealth (Ex) This ability allows you to move at full speed using Stealth without penalty.
Focused Study (Ex) At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, gain skill focus in a skill of your choice (this replaces the human bonus feat)
Poverty-Stricken Your childhood was tough, and your parents had to make every copper piece count. Hunger was your constant companion, and you often had to live off the land or sleep in the wild. +1 trait bonus to survival, and it becomes a class skill.
Scholar of the Great Beyond (Knowledge (Planes)) Your great interests as a child did not lie with current events or the mundane-- you have always felt out of place, as if you were born in the wrong era.
+1 trait bonus to K(history) and K(planes), and one of the two becomes a class skill.
Skilled Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.
Sneak Attack (Ex) If you can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from your attack, you can strike a vital spot for extra damage. [3d6]
Trapfinding (Ex) You add +2 to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks. You can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magical traps.
Trap Sense (Ex) You gain a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps, and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) You can react to danger before your senses would normally allow you to do so.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Rogues are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Ricardo Pennacchia |
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There has been a lot of discussion in these forums about the rogue, which includes ways to make an effective character. It might be worth taking a look at the optimization guides available here.
Additionally, there is a really extensive thread about rogue builds here.
Yep, it's a lot of reading, but might be worth looking as well; the rogue is not an easy class to work with in Pathfinder, so every piece of advice can be useful for you to make a character that can be fun, flavorful and effective (by effective I mean a character that can contribute to the party in combat situations).

AndIMustMask |
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here's a stealthy rogue I threw together a while back (slightly modified from my version in the second link in ricardo pennacchia's post)
'Iconic' rogue
(rog 6 / HW 3 / rog +11)
START: str 10, dex 17 (7+2r), con 14 (5), int 13 (3), wis 10, cha 14 (5)
FINISH: str 16, dex 32, con 20, int 20, wis 16, cha 20
+5 dex (level), +6 all (gear), +4 dex, +1 int (book/wish)
traits: trapfinder / militia
rogue talents:
2 - Combat Trick (Dervish Dance)
4 - Trap Spotter
6 - Minor Magic (Detect Magic)
11 - combat trick (Arcane Strike)
13* - Feat (Dimensional Savant)
15* - Opportunist
17* - Skill Mastery (acrobatics, disable device, [face skill], perception, sense motive, stealth)
19* - Improved Evasion
feats:
1 - Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus (stealth)
3 - Endurance
5 - Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 1)
7 - Hellcat Stealth
8 - Skill Focus (perception)
9 - Dimensional Agility
11 - Dimensional Assault
13 - Dimensional Dervish
15 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 9)
16 - Skill Focus (UMD)
17 - Dampen Presence
19 - ???
he gets HiPS in the light and dark (and even from blindsense/sight WAY later), can find/break magical traps, and can flank with himself at 13th (late, but hey). grab a pair of 'boots of soft step' and a bunch of 'oils of negate aroma' and you're invisible to tremorsense and scent (respectively) as well.
he also fills the dextrous/intelligent/charismatic headcanons for rogues.
i'm trying to find a spot to squeeze in Steadfast Personality (sometime in 5-9th level) to shore up his will saves--and put that cha investment to more use than EH prereqs--but so far he's looking alright.

Chess Pwn |

Feinting and getting the teamwork feat where if you feint then they are flat footed for all your allies. This would be the biggest thing for you all to do.
teamwork feats
broken wing gambit, feint partner, improved feint partner, paired opportunist, outflank
these feats will let you all be super vicious. you feint, thus all your allies get an AoO with improved feint partner, and then you do too because of paired opportunist. And their flaf-footed for all those so mega sneak attack. outflank and paired opportunist can help boost your to hit. and then broken wing can give everyone more AoO again. I feel that teamwork feats are the best options for rogues.

AndIMustMask |

Problem with teamwork feats: youre basically asking someone to throw their plans for their character out the window to accomodate you.
Its like forcing someone to be your 'flank buddy', you may need it to function, but they dont (and trying to get into flanking position to babysit the rogue is 'wasting' their actions that could be better spent elsewhere).
Having to carry your weight and their own--and to the detriment of themselves--tends to try some players' patience. First and foremost a player character should be self-sufficient.
.
Personally, if i plan to be flank-centric i go with either nature soul + animal ally to get an animal companion to flank with (usually a wolf for the trip/prone bonus as well) or dip into horizon walker for DD and the dimensional savant feat line.
EDIT: or lore warden fighter 2/rogue 4/shadowdancer 3 for the shadow minion.
Another decent option for simpler sneak sttacking is the shatter defenses feats--a dip into order of the cockatrice cavalier (especially with the new daring champion archetype being a thing) and an ominous+cruel-enchanted weapon and youre imposing loads of penalties across the field (especially paired with the stat damage rogue talent and pressure points ninja talent).
.
Ninja can avoid the issue entirely via vanishing trick and invisible blade, and its cha-reliance allows easy access to eldritch heritage (orc is great with the community-minded trait to pump your str and accuracy with the various powers) and steadfast personality (which gives you a great will save, so youre not a dead man walking after level 6-9), but not all dms want a ninja running around in their world, despite a classes name having absolutely no bearing on how it's played.

Pendagast |

Problem with teamwork feats: youre basically asking someone to throw their plans for their character out the window to accomodate you.
Its like forcing someone to be your 'flank buddy', you may need it to function, but they dont (and trying to get into flanking position to babysit the rogue is 'wasting' their actions that could be better spent elsewhere).
Having to carry your weight and their own--and to the detriment of themselves--tends to try some players' patience. First and foremost a player character should be self-sufficient.
.
Personally, if i plan to be flank-centric i go with either nature soul + animal ally to get an animal companion to flank with (usually a wolf for the trip/prone bonus as well) or dip into horizon walker for DD and the dimensional savant feat line.
EDIT: or lore warden fighter 2/rogue 4/shadowdancer 3 for the shadow minion.Another decent option for simpler sneak sttacking is the shatter defenses feats--a dip into order of the cockatrice cavalier (especially with the new daring champion archetype being a thing) and an ominous+cruel-enchanted weapon and youre imposing loads of penalties across the field (especially paired with the stat damage rogue talent and pressure points ninja talent).
.
Ninja can avoid the issue entirely via vanishing trick and invisible blade, and its cha-reliance allows easy access to eldritch heritage (orc is great with the community-minded trait to pump your str and accuracy with the various powers) and steadfast personality (which gives you a great will save, so youre not a dead man walking after level 6-9), but not all dms want a ninja running around in their world, despite a classes name having absolutely no bearing on how it's played.
you're missing the fact that they are ALL rogues